The GOP Is Tone-Deaf On Fiscal Cliff

[HeavenlyWarrior]

The GOP is tone-deaf on fiscal cliff

The GOP is tone-deaf on fiscal cliff - CNN.com

It sure appears that the GOP hasn't learned its lesson yet and is going out of its way and trying its best to defeat itself in 2014 and then in the 2016 presidential elections where a Democrat will be most likely to win the presidency all over again! The Republican House Speaker keeps saying there is no compromise even when the Middle Class are the main people they should be concerned about. But the voters of this country are taking good notice and will sure remember the GOP at the polls if they dare touch their sacred cows, Social Security and Medicare, and should they throw the Middle-Class under the fiscal cliff bus! It will be Deja Vu all over again.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Translation: Democrats want to materially raise taxes without materially cutting spending. The GOP is getting in their way.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I think the United States will become rather conservative if you give it time. Quite simply, there's a numbers game.

Conservatives have more kids to begin with. Liberals like to kill the ones they do conceive...

Most apples don't fall too terribly far from the tree...

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I wouldn't classify the GOP as conservative in the traditional sense. I think they would be defined as pluocratic neo-conservatism and that isn't traditional conservatism (e.g. paleoconservatism).

I see the U.S. as trending farther and farther to the left toward modern liberalism, socialism, state atheism, etc... and that includes the GOP.

Regarding your last point, you have to understand that liberals simply import about a million poor immigrants a year (both legal and illegal) who do have a lot of kids which they use to tap into social services.

Here in California between 1985 and 2005, it is documented that we gained 10 million poor people and their children into this state. 7 million of them went on medicaid and social welfare. Only 150,000 of them filed a state income tax return.

2 to 3 million middle class taxpayers left during the same period. So we ended up with 10 million new poor people taking money from the government who almost all registered Democrat and vote to get as much as they can and lost about 2.5 million middle class mostly Republican taxpayers along with the taxes they paid. Now we're in a lot of trouble despite raising taxes to the highest level in the nation with the recent tax increase legislation that was passed and many more property and other taxes, fines, and fees are planned. It won't be enough because millions of poor people are still pouring in from Latin America and Asia.

My point is that the Democrats simply use immigration as a voter recruiting tool. This will continue until the money is finally gone and the taxes simply cannot be raised any higher. Then the riots will start and they will be much worse than the last one.

The Rodney King riots were interesting. Lots of smoke, gunfire, and the National Guard marching down the street in front of my place but they are just a shadow of the ones that will occur when the beans and rice finally run out.

I think the United States will become rather conservative if you give it time. Quite simply, there's a numbers game.

Conservatives have more kids to begin with. Liberals like to kill the ones they do conceive...

Most apples don't fall too terribly far from the tree...

 

[psychomom]

Honestly, I don't think there's much to admire about either party. (based on their actions)
If we think otherwise, we fool ourselves.

Not a lot of integrity happening in DC...though there is much I admire about the congressman who represents our district.
But even he...it's not like I can see into his heart...or even his life. lol

 

[webchatter]

I was watching the news yesterday on CNN & they had one of Obama's economic people on there. She said that even if the republicans decide to raise taxes on the rich, that they, the DEMOCRATS, will STILL cut medicare for the elderly, " because that's where the money is, the numbers add up to cut the deficit". Lol. She referred to medicare as "entitlement" money from the feds. lol
We paid into it. It's not an entitlement. It came out of every paycheck we ever had. However, people who recieve welfare, medicaid, have not usually paid a dime into it. That's entitlement.
Medicare plus a secondary health insurance already doesn't pay all our medical bills. The elderly will be the new homeless.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I think the United States will become rather conservative if you give it time. Quite simply, there's a numbers game.

Conservatives have more kids to begin with. Liberals like to kill the ones they do conceive...

Most apples don't fall too terribly far from the tree...

I don't think the number of abortions among democrats is quite high enough to make a significant dent in the voting populations. After all, the families that "squirt" out more children than they can afford tend to be the ones who vote democrat, looking for that government cheese. I haven't seen any hard statistics on it, but I would be willing to bet for every 1 mother that aborts her child, there are at least 10 who don't, and among those 10, the stats I've seen claim 4.7 of them will receive some sort of government help. So your numbers don't quite pan out.

Among the conservatives I know, they don't have significantly more kids -- they're responsible enough to have 2 or maybe 3 children, and then that's it. Tubes tied or whatever. Republicans are all about personal responsibility, aren't they? Or is that just a myth?

And then yes, the apple (or nut in some cases) doesn't fall too far from the tree, but we also find that kids tend to be a little more liberal than their parents. Each generation is a little more accepting than the previous one. My grandparents would never have thought blacks and whites could marry, but my parents' generation fought for it. And now the vast majority of "20-somethings" -- last I heard it's well over 80% -- support gay marriage. So even if parents are conservative, that doesn't mean kids are going to be.

If anything, the US is headed further left. Not that there won't be pockets of conservativism, as there have always been, but history in general shows this trend, and I don't see any reason for it not to continue as it has for the last 10-20 thousand years.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

I see the U.S. as trending farther and farther to the left toward modern liberalism, socialism, state atheism, etc... and that includes the GOP.

I made my above post before I read this.... It seems we are on the same page. I agree.

Now, whether this is a good or bad thing, I suspect you and I may not agree, but the trend? Yup.

 

[Indubitably]

I work with the elderly and disabled and the government programs everyday. Most Americans who develop their political opinions from their favorite newscaster, who obviously slants the news towards one party or the other, really need to get involved and learn the truth.

I've seen at least 20 elderly and /or severely disabled people kicked out of nursing homes in the last six months. Why? Obamacare and the new regulations. Many of these people are now homeless. Imagine being instantly made homeless and having to face the streets in a wheelchair and hardly being able to speak from your recent stroke. Benefits like medicaid are being cut off from long time recipients to now cover everyone, including illegal immigrants. Everything that comes from a President's mouth may sound good, but the reality is horrible.

Medicaid is not welfare for the poor. Millions of people on Medicaid worked for years and paid their taxes and paid into SS and Medicare. Then they got sick or disabled and could only work part-time. Then they finallly went on disability and all they could get was medicaid because SS only considers your last few quarters of what you paid in.

I owned a business and paid the maximum SS possible for years. I had health problems and I began to work less. When it got so bad that I could not work, I was only eligible for medicaid because my last few quarters paid in were low. Even though I paid more than twice what most people do in their lifetime, I was stuck with medicaid. What I experienced is very common.

Medicare and Medicaid cuts in payouts to doctors and hospitals have already decreased in most states. We're in a mess that no dems or GOP can get us out of. If you really think all this mess will be solved by he GOP doing what the President wants, you better save every penny. You're gonna need each and every one of them.

Mr. Obama, there is no free lunch!

 

[HeavenlyWarrior]

The GOP is tone-deaf on fiscal cliff

The GOP is tone-deaf on fiscal cliff - CNN.com

It sure appears that the GOP hasn't learned its lesson yet and is going out of its way and trying its best to defeat itself in 2014 and then in the 2016 presidential elections where a Democrat will be most likely to win the presidency all over again! The Republican House Speaker keeps saying there is no compromise even when the Middle Class are the main people they should be concerned about. But the voters of this country are taking good notice and will sure remember the GOP at the polls if they dare touch their sacred cows, Social Security and Medicare, and should they throw the Middle-Class under the fiscal cliff bus! It will be Deja Vu all over again.

Well now we know For Sure that the GOP IS totally tone-deaf on the fiscal cliff since Republican Congress members who were needed to help pass the Speaker's Plan B just rejected it! They could not even support it much less bring it to a vote in the House. The Speaker's own party decided NOT to support his plan as a remedial solution to the fiscal cliff! How do you like them apples!

When GOP members of their own party can't even agree on something to put forth for a vote that is coming right from themselves, who else can be blamed but them! And up until recently when the Speaker thought he had the votes of his Party to pass his Plan in the House he was reported as saying that the Democrats will be blamed if the fiscal cliff emerges next month. Wrong Mr. Speaker! Wrong! It will now be HIS GOP Political Party that will take the blame as a majority of people in this country (about 53%) say they will be the very ones to be blamed if the fiscal cliff goes on without being stopped. The President has bent over backwards trying to compromise and work with the Republicans. But they had their chance and they blew it! Now, they have all gone home for the Christmas Holidays no less! Forget about coming up with a Plan C, D, E, or F. Let's just go home and celebrate our doing NOTHING and let the fiscal cliff become an Avalanche on the American people! But what's new? It's Deja Vu All Over Again!

And quite obviously the reason a majority of House Republicans did not even get to vote for the Republican Plan to avoid the fiscal cliff is because it contained a lot of nonsense such as deep cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. that people would not ever stand for or support! Those who decided to not support Boehner's Plan B were smart as they would have seen themselves being Voted Right Out of Office next time! This was obviously a vote to Save Their Own Skin! We can call it "The GOP SOS Vote".

 

[Ritter]

I don't think the number of abortions among democrats is quite high enough to make a significant dent in the voting populations. After all, the families that "squirt" out more children than they can afford tend to be the ones who vote democrat, looking for that government cheese. I haven't seen any hard statistics on it, but I would be willing to bet for every 1 mother that aborts her child, there are at least 10 who don't, and among those 10, the stats I've seen claim 4.7 of them will receive some sort of government help. So your numbers don't quite pan out.

Among the conservatives I know, they don't have significantly more kids -- they're responsible enough to have 2 or maybe 3 children, and then that's it. Tubes tied or whatever. Republicans are all about personal responsibility, aren't they? Or is that just a myth?

And then yes, the apple (or nut in some cases) doesn't fall too far from the tree, but we also find that kids tend to be a little more liberal than their parents. Each generation is a little more accepting than the previous one. My grandparents would never have thought blacks and whites could marry, but my parents' generation fought for it. And now the vast majority of "20-somethings" -- last I heard it's well over 80% -- support gay marriage. So even if parents are conservative, that doesn't mean kids are going to be.

If anything, the US is headed further left. Not that there won't be pockets of conservativism, as there have always been, but history in general shows this trend, and I don't see any reason for it not to continue as it has for the last 10-20 thousand years.

This is, overall, a more accurate assessment than the one Jimmy Diggs pointed out. He was right about one thing: Red States in the year 2000 had higher birthrates than the blue ones. I have not checked the numbers out since. Republicans are, in the aforementioned conservative 'pockets' more likely to crank out kids because the prevailing culture allows this to be true.

If you are going to go by pure birth-rate, republicans do have the edge, but as our Diva has pointed out, that does not mean everything. Demographic, cultural, and societal factors outside birthrate are the ones that the GOP should be wetting its pants over.

The GOP doomsday analysis is also rather simplistic and lacks imagination as well as recognition of historical reversals. Always be willing to be surprised and willing to surprise the opposition when you have the chance.

A possibility to be worried about is balkanization of the US and the chaos that would ensue after that. I hope I never have to see it in my lifetime as a Yankee transplant.

 

[quakerzen]

The nation is just going to liberalize as time goes on. People under 30 OVERWHELMINGLY vote Democrat, and the numbers are just increasing. The only Republicans to get a great deal of youth support are libertarian candidates, a dying breed within the Republican party.

The elections show that the US wanted Obama's way, not the GOP's way. They still don't get it. America wants taxes for the rich to rise, AND spending cuts on military spending.

 

[Ritter]

The elections show that the US wanted Obama's way, not the GOP's way. They still don't get it. America wants taxes for the rich to rise, AND spending cuts on military spending.

It was an electoral victory, not a mandate. That is what I told my Republican friends in 2010. I was right then, and I suspect that I am correct now.

You are right about one thing, and that is that the liberal wing of the democrat of the party has played with the endgame in mind. They thought outside the box and benefited from it.

History has tides that you may be too blind to read that your opponent can. Regardless of your political affiliation, you are wise to take heed of what the Romans said to their successful generals: Remember, thou art mortal.

 

[zone]

I think the United States will become rather conservative if you give it time. Quite simply, there's a numbers game.

Conservatives have more kids to begin with. Liberals like to kill the ones they do conceive...

Most apples don't fall too terribly far from the tree...

but irrational, unrestrained, unregulated immigration (under the promise of "liberal democracy") as a conquering tactic is hard to hold up under for long.

standard fifth-column stuff.

 

[zone]

Honestly, I don't think there's much to admire about either party.

one bird, two wings.

the 2 party-system is a non.

when you see the same agenda moving forward regardless of which party is in power, you know you're already in a totalitarian system.

"democracy" is just the peasants thinking they can "vote the bums out" every 4 years (so they won't storm the palaces < which i don't call for, but that's what used to happen). the palace guys just got smart and offer up the puppet show.

works like a charm, sadly.

 

[zone]

this "Fiscal Cliff" scare-mongering reminds me of something.

z-z-z-z

 

[zone]

this whole thing is just an age-old trick:

use 'capitalism' to generate unimaginable amounts of wealth. let the little guy think he's got endless upward mobility.

encourage him to pay into a social safety net (which really is a good thing if the bad guys kept their hands off it).

when the class system hits critical mass (middle class too big); pull the rug out using central banking crises.
blame the little guy.

insist that the little guy tighten up his belt after looting his house.
let him know his safety net isn't there anymore.

all the people who were not-so-secretly encouraged to rely on the welfare state are now facing "austerity". no more "free-lunch" < must work for food....surrender all to the State.

^ none of the above was necessary nor a natural consequence of the Constitutional Republic ^, but is systemic to 'Liberal Democracy'.

which inevitably and on purpose ends up being Communism/Fascism (now called Communitarianism).

which was always the plan.

Hegelian Dialectic.

 

[TheGrungeDiva]

one bird, two wings.

the 2 party-system is a non.

when you see the same agenda moving forward regardless of which party is in power, you know you're already in a totalitarian system.

"democracy" is just the peasants thinking they can "vote the bums out" every 4 years (so they won't storm the palaces < which i don't call for, but that's what used to happen). the palace guys just got smart and offer up the puppet show.

works like a charm, sadly.

Bread and circuses, if you know your Roman history.

 

[Jenjoy]

Neither coke or Pepsi, the parties we have now will give us less government. Therefore until we have someone like Ron Paul keep your wallets open because big government wants your money.

 

[cctmedic]

I say let us fall. the taxes will be higher and spending less. Maybe its a good start to dept crisis. WAKE up folks colapse is comming unless we truly make the sacrifices neccessary to stabilize our out of control spemding