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I'll quote Martin Luther directly...
Here is Martin Luther teaching the pure heresy of what he called "The Blessed Exchange."
Luther, M. (1999, c1959). Vol. 51: Luther’s works, vol. 51 : Sermons I (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald & H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther’s Works (51:III-316). Philadelphia: Fortress Press.
Blessed Exchange « 1517 AD Blog
Martin Luther viewed 2Cor 5:21 as teaching that the actual obedience of Jesus is forensically transferred to the believers account. Thus, it is taught, that when God looks at the sinner He sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
This doctrine of "the righteousness of Jesus Christ being transferred to the believer" is pure heresy and is only supported with conjecture by reading it into selected verses like 2Cor 5:21 and Rom 3:22.
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
We are made the righteousness of God (God's standard) by abiding in Jesus Christ as we walk after the Spirit having been raised up by the power of God after we have crucified our flesh in repentance. By faith we yield to the power of God who energises us, quickening our Spirit within.
This magical transfer of righteousness is pure fantasy simply because righteousness and sin are moral actions and thus are not transferable properties. You cannot transfer a moral action from one person to another. Nobody can transfer their righteousness or their sinfulness to another person because neither righteousness nor sinfulness are properties of substance. Righteousness and sinfulness are descriptive terms of the nature of an individuals heart and the related conduct which flows from that heart.
Jesus bore our sins as a sin offering but He was not transformed into a sinner literally or forensically on the cross and declared guilty. God never looked at Jesus as a guilty sinner and to teach such a thing is utter blasphemy.
Neither are we transformed forensically into a righteous person and declared innocent while in reality we still walk in the lusts of the flesh in rebellion to God.
This magic cloak has God pretending that a wicked and vile sinner is Jesus, thus it is actually teaching that instead of God being able to bring man up to His standard, God has to blind Himself so as to pretend man is something He is not. What absurdity.
Jesus came to purify us, not to cloak us forensically.
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
By teaching the "Blessed Exchange" Martin Luther completely disconnected deeds done in the body from the condition of the soul. This is exactly what Augustine did when he brought gnostic philosophy into Christian orthodoxy and it is no surprise because Martin Luther was an Augustinian Monk.
Jesus Christ did not teach ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE to this doctrine of the Blessed Exchange. False teachers read this foolish doctrine into select verses of scripture. The epistle of James completely blows this foolishness out of the water and that is why these heretics have to explain James away.
Here is what Martin Luther said about the book of James...
Luther's Works, Vol 35, Word and Sacrament, Fortress Press, 1960
http://www.vasynod.org/files/BibleStudy/GreatestHits/Vol%2035%20Romans.pdf
Martin Luther did not like what James wrote about faith and works thus he simply dismissed it. James teaches that faith is an active dynamic rather than mere passive belief which directly contradicts the "faith alone" of Martin Luther.
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Modern heretics today also dismiss the above passage by James. They either explain it away by teaching that the book of James is not applicable to the Church by quoting Jam 1:1 where it says James is writing to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" implying that the Jews were given a different Gospel than the one Paul preached to the Gentiles. Or they twist it by teaching that the justification that James speaks of is "before men" and is different to the justification of Romans chapter 4 which they teach is before God. Or they simply ignore what James teaches. Anyone who is truly honest will see right through these lies.
James specifically states that "man is not justified by faith alone." Right there in Scripture it plainly states that the "faith alone" of Martin Luther is a lie.
Martin Luther also said this...
Martin Luther, Letter From Luther to Melanchthon Letter no. 99, 1 August 1521
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/letsinsbe.txt
Now while, in fair context, Martin Luther is not teaching that one should go out and commit adultery. Yet he is clearly teaching that YOU CAN commit adultery and that IF YOU DO it would have no bearing on the outcome of your salvation because justification and therefore salvation is purely of a forensic nature. Salvation is abstract in his mind and has nothing to do with what you do.
This error is widely taught and believed by millions of people today. It offers a false assurance of salvation to those who still continue in their sin. All these people have swallowed hook, line and sinker Satan's first lie of "Ye Shall Not Surely Die." The lie has simply been repackaged in the great swelling words of the theologians who are simply the ravenous wolves that appear as lambs which Jesus warned us about.
Do not be deceived by these false teachers nor by their false converts who hate the truth of Scripture.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Don't be deceived! Repent and obey God. Trust in Jesus Christ by abiding in the Spirit of life of Jesus Christ through which we are able to live in victory over the works of the devil.
Here is Martin Luther teaching the pure heresy of what he called "The Blessed Exchange."
Luther, M. (1999, c1959). Vol. 51: Luther’s works, vol. 51 : Sermons I (J. J. Pelikan, H. C. Oswald & H. T. Lehmann, Ed.). Luther’s Works (51:III-316). Philadelphia: Fortress Press.
Blessed Exchange « 1517 AD Blog
Martin Luther viewed 2Cor 5:21 as teaching that the actual obedience of Jesus is forensically transferred to the believers account. Thus, it is taught, that when God looks at the sinner He sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ.
This doctrine of "the righteousness of Jesus Christ being transferred to the believer" is pure heresy and is only supported with conjecture by reading it into selected verses like 2Cor 5:21 and Rom 3:22.
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
We are made the righteousness of God (God's standard) by abiding in Jesus Christ as we walk after the Spirit having been raised up by the power of God after we have crucified our flesh in repentance. By faith we yield to the power of God who energises us, quickening our Spirit within.
This magical transfer of righteousness is pure fantasy simply because righteousness and sin are moral actions and thus are not transferable properties. You cannot transfer a moral action from one person to another. Nobody can transfer their righteousness or their sinfulness to another person because neither righteousness nor sinfulness are properties of substance. Righteousness and sinfulness are descriptive terms of the nature of an individuals heart and the related conduct which flows from that heart.
Jesus bore our sins as a sin offering but He was not transformed into a sinner literally or forensically on the cross and declared guilty. God never looked at Jesus as a guilty sinner and to teach such a thing is utter blasphemy.
Neither are we transformed forensically into a righteous person and declared innocent while in reality we still walk in the lusts of the flesh in rebellion to God.
This magic cloak has God pretending that a wicked and vile sinner is Jesus, thus it is actually teaching that instead of God being able to bring man up to His standard, God has to blind Himself so as to pretend man is something He is not. What absurdity.
Jesus came to purify us, not to cloak us forensically.
Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
By teaching the "Blessed Exchange" Martin Luther completely disconnected deeds done in the body from the condition of the soul. This is exactly what Augustine did when he brought gnostic philosophy into Christian orthodoxy and it is no surprise because Martin Luther was an Augustinian Monk.
Jesus Christ did not teach ANYTHING REMOTELY CLOSE to this doctrine of the Blessed Exchange. False teachers read this foolish doctrine into select verses of scripture. The epistle of James completely blows this foolishness out of the water and that is why these heretics have to explain James away.
Here is what Martin Luther said about the book of James...
Luther's Works, Vol 35, Word and Sacrament, Fortress Press, 1960
http://www.vasynod.org/files/BibleStudy/GreatestHits/Vol%2035%20Romans.pdf
Martin Luther did not like what James wrote about faith and works thus he simply dismissed it. James teaches that faith is an active dynamic rather than mere passive belief which directly contradicts the "faith alone" of Martin Luther.
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Modern heretics today also dismiss the above passage by James. They either explain it away by teaching that the book of James is not applicable to the Church by quoting Jam 1:1 where it says James is writing to "the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad" implying that the Jews were given a different Gospel than the one Paul preached to the Gentiles. Or they twist it by teaching that the justification that James speaks of is "before men" and is different to the justification of Romans chapter 4 which they teach is before God. Or they simply ignore what James teaches. Anyone who is truly honest will see right through these lies.
James specifically states that "man is not justified by faith alone." Right there in Scripture it plainly states that the "faith alone" of Martin Luther is a lie.
Martin Luther also said this...
Martin Luther, Letter From Luther to Melanchthon Letter no. 99, 1 August 1521
http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/letsinsbe.txt
Now while, in fair context, Martin Luther is not teaching that one should go out and commit adultery. Yet he is clearly teaching that YOU CAN commit adultery and that IF YOU DO it would have no bearing on the outcome of your salvation because justification and therefore salvation is purely of a forensic nature. Salvation is abstract in his mind and has nothing to do with what you do.
This error is widely taught and believed by millions of people today. It offers a false assurance of salvation to those who still continue in their sin. All these people have swallowed hook, line and sinker Satan's first lie of "Ye Shall Not Surely Die." The lie has simply been repackaged in the great swelling words of the theologians who are simply the ravenous wolves that appear as lambs which Jesus warned us about.
Do not be deceived by these false teachers nor by their false converts who hate the truth of Scripture.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
2Pe 2:8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds
2Pe 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2Pe 2:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
2Pe 2:11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2Pe 2:13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
2Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Don't be deceived! Repent and obey God. Trust in Jesus Christ by abiding in the Spirit of life of Jesus Christ through which we are able to live in victory over the works of the devil.
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H
It's repentance from dead works of self-righteousness (works of the law/10 commandments).
Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works
Heb 9:14
how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Consider Israel's example of dead works of the law.
Rom 9:31-33
but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
As it is written:“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.
So Israel was in fact in rebellion/disobedience.
Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works
Heb 9:14
how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Consider Israel's example of dead works of the law.
Rom 9:31-33
but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.
As it is written:“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.
So Israel was in fact in rebellion/disobedience.
Rom 10:3
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
E
Oh he is not? He sure did tell the pharisees, probably the most obedient people who walked the earth when it came to obeying the law, to repent.
It is not because they were not obedient, it was because they thought there obedience made them righteous, thus they did not need God to save them.
Which is what those who claim we are saved by obedience teach.
It is not because they were not obedient, it was because they thought there obedience made them righteous, thus they did not need God to save them.
Which is what those who claim we are saved by obedience teach.
What obedience Loveme1?
What is the obedience the Spirit of Jesus is telling the church at Laodecia?
It is lukewarmness.
But what is lukewarm?
If you had a man that was your husband, and he worked hard to put a roof over your head but stayed out all night, would his love be lukewarm?
If you had a husband that didn't earn enough to keep a roof over your head; but loved you with his total being, and stayed with you under the bridges as you were wanderers...... is he a 'lukewarm' husband?
Who is Jesus talking about? The ones who say and do outwardly?
Or the ones who react inwardly, and then show their love outwardly?
What did Jesus say about adultery on the sermon on the mount?
Was it only physical? Or did He make it spiritual?
So it is with His.....I know it seems backwards, but it's not.
The spirit is inside, and the Holy Spirit cleanses from the inside....not by observing laws and ordinances. But by the grafting of the Word, (Holy Spirit), which leads us into righteous His works and doesn't follow our own
What is the obedience the Spirit of Jesus is telling the church at Laodecia?
It is lukewarmness.
But what is lukewarm?
If you had a man that was your husband, and he worked hard to put a roof over your head but stayed out all night, would his love be lukewarm?
If you had a husband that didn't earn enough to keep a roof over your head; but loved you with his total being, and stayed with you under the bridges as you were wanderers...... is he a 'lukewarm' husband?
Who is Jesus talking about? The ones who say and do outwardly?
Or the ones who react inwardly, and then show their love outwardly?
What did Jesus say about adultery on the sermon on the mount?
Was it only physical? Or did He make it spiritual?
So it is with His.....I know it seems backwards, but it's not.
The spirit is inside, and the Holy Spirit cleanses from the inside....not by observing laws and ordinances. But by the grafting of the Word, (Holy Spirit), which leads us into righteous His works and doesn't follow our own
You can not tell a person his obedience is not through Faith.
Compare others not by yourselves.
Serious misuse of Scripture, though i believe it is in ignorance.
If someone Keeps the Commandments of Yahvah God and has Faith in Yahshua the Messiah they are called saints.
That is not my declaration that is what is written.
Be sure it is not you who should take the warning you offer to others.
Compare others not by yourselves.
Serious misuse of Scripture, though i believe it is in ignorance.
If someone Keeps the Commandments of Yahvah God and has Faith in Yahshua the Messiah they are called saints.
That is not my declaration that is what is written.
Be sure it is not you who should take the warning you offer to others.
Jesus said this...
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Thus clearly they WERE NOT obedient people as you try to imply. The Pharisees were all show, they were fake. Their hearts were evil and they pretended to be righteous with their pomp. Jesus said they "omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith."
True faith works by love (Gal 5:6) and it thus establishes the law in the heart (Rom 3:31). With the law established in the heart by faith the outward deeds of righteousness will be fulfilled (Rom 8:4).
The Pharisees WERE NOT fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law by a faith which worked by love which establishes the law in the heart. They were rigidly applying rules and regulations whilst still in rebellion to God. Applying rules and regulations apart from a faith which works by love is not obedience. That is why an outward form of obedience to the law cannot save anyone. That is why no-one is justified by the works of the law.
Paul did not throw obedience out the window and teach passive trust. Paul taught that eternal life is given to those who "patiently continue in doing good." We are to patiently continue in doing good by a faith which works by love. We abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ and let God's grace work through us. We are willing vessels, crucified with Christ, we no longer live, Christ lives in us and through us. We are in complete submission to the Spirit within if we truly be of Christ's. Otherwise we be reprobates just deceiving ourselves.
We obey to be saved and we also are saved that we obey. It is not one or the other, it is both.
The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey God (Acts 5:32). We are set apart unto obedience (1Pet 1:2).
God does not make us obey. He works in us the will and to do yet we have to choose this day whom we will serve, either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness, holiness and eternal life.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Thus clearly they WERE NOT obedient people as you try to imply. The Pharisees were all show, they were fake. Their hearts were evil and they pretended to be righteous with their pomp. Jesus said they "omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith."
True faith works by love (Gal 5:6) and it thus establishes the law in the heart (Rom 3:31). With the law established in the heart by faith the outward deeds of righteousness will be fulfilled (Rom 8:4).
The Pharisees WERE NOT fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law by a faith which worked by love which establishes the law in the heart. They were rigidly applying rules and regulations whilst still in rebellion to God. Applying rules and regulations apart from a faith which works by love is not obedience. That is why an outward form of obedience to the law cannot save anyone. That is why no-one is justified by the works of the law.
Paul did not throw obedience out the window and teach passive trust. Paul taught that eternal life is given to those who "patiently continue in doing good." We are to patiently continue in doing good by a faith which works by love. We abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ and let God's grace work through us. We are willing vessels, crucified with Christ, we no longer live, Christ lives in us and through us. We are in complete submission to the Spirit within if we truly be of Christ's. Otherwise we be reprobates just deceiving ourselves.
We obey to be saved and we also are saved that we obey. It is not one or the other, it is both.
The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey God (Acts 5:32). We are set apart unto obedience (1Pet 1:2).
God does not make us obey. He works in us the will and to do yet we have to choose this day whom we will serve, either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness, holiness and eternal life.
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E
I can not agree at all.
1. if someone is saying one can lose salvation, they are not being obedient by faith
2. if someone is claiming they are saved by obedience. they are not being obedient by faith
3. The pharisees sin is they they were proud and arrogant, thinking their obedience is what made them right with God. this is no different at all from someone who is trying to earn salvation by being obedient, (or not losing it) it is the same.
1. if someone is saying one can lose salvation, they are not being obedient by faith
2. if someone is claiming they are saved by obedience. they are not being obedient by faith
3. The pharisees sin is they they were proud and arrogant, thinking their obedience is what made them right with God. this is no different at all from someone who is trying to earn salvation by being obedient, (or not losing it) it is the same.
E
Yep, they were just like you. they were not being obedient by faith anymore than you are. they are puffing themselves up as to how good they were, they were condemning people who understood their sin, and their need for Christ, just like you are. Is it not funny how every time you are cornered you leave for a few days, then return, and ignore the other conversation we were having, why is this?
T
You can;t love God, or feel his love if you are not born again first. You would have it the other way, that we are born again by works, and not that we show work because we are born again. But we already established that. and you left that convo.
Only one man can establish and do the righteous requirement of the law. and that was Christ. all the rest of us have fallen short of this requirement. You can not, after you already failed) start to live the law and think you will be saved, you were already condemned. You musty be born again, Nicodemus figured this out, why can't you?
If your trying to obey to be saved, your no different than the pharisees, Your obeying out of prideful ignorance, and not out of love of the one who adopted you into his family based on faith alone in the work of Christ.
As was said earlier. the prodigal son had to be born before he could become the fathers son, He had nothing to do with his birth, it was ALL his fathers and mothers work.
If your not a son, you can be obedient all you want, it will amount to a whole bunch of nothing!
T
You can;t love God, or feel his love if you are not born again first. You would have it the other way, that we are born again by works, and not that we show work because we are born again. But we already established that. and you left that convo.
Only one man can establish and do the righteous requirement of the law. and that was Christ. all the rest of us have fallen short of this requirement. You can not, after you already failed) start to live the law and think you will be saved, you were already condemned. You musty be born again, Nicodemus figured this out, why can't you?
If your trying to obey to be saved, your no different than the pharisees, Your obeying out of prideful ignorance, and not out of love of the one who adopted you into his family based on faith alone in the work of Christ.
As was said earlier. the prodigal son had to be born before he could become the fathers son, He had nothing to do with his birth, it was ALL his fathers and mothers work.
If your not a son, you can be obedient all you want, it will amount to a whole bunch of nothing!
Was Paul being obedient by faith when he stated the following?
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
What do you actually think Paul is speaking of in Rom 11:21 and 22 if not in the context of gaining eternal life as opposed to be cut off?
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
You constantly disconnect obedience (being a doer of the word) from the outcome of salvation. How do you deal with passages like these...
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
E
Paul is talking to the gentiles as a group. Not induvidual people in romans 11. (Isreal) as a nation, were cut off. and the oracles of God were given to the gentiles (the church) he is warning the church not to be so arrogant in their thinking, that just as God cut Isreal off, he can cut us off too. Your context is completely offline.
Yep he will. And those who are born again, and have the spirit of God in them WILL PATIENTLY CONTINUE TO GROW IN CHRIST. those who are not, may look like they are, but they have missed the mark, and their work will account for nothing. As jesus said, Depart from me, FOR I NEVER KNEW YOU. because they rejected the one thing which could save them.
How about forsaking rebellion and obediently yielding to God before being born again? Do you consider that such a thing is possible? Or do you believe that one must get saved before one can obey?
I actually agree that one cannot love God in the sense of "pure love" without being born of God. One has to be raised up by God's power for that but that in no way negates the ability of fallen men to forsake their sin and yield to God.
I actually agree that one cannot love God in the sense of "pure love" without being born of God. One has to be raised up by God's power for that but that in no way negates the ability of fallen men to forsake their sin and yield to God.
Paul teaches that "some of the branches were broken off" as opposed to "all of the branches."
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Yet you are teaching that this verse does not apply to an "individual believer" because you teach that you cannot be cut off for anything you do.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
So what exactly is Paul speaking about then? You must believe that you can disobey God and He cuts some branch off but not the actual individuals who rebelled?
You then contradict yourself by proclaiming "Perseverance of the Saints" (P in TULIP) when you say...
Can you see the contradiction in your thinking? On the one hand you imply that if you do not continue in his goodness you will not be cut off, only the Gentile nation can be cut off (thus your still going to enter the kingdom). While on the other hand you teach that the saints WILL PATIENTLY CONTINUE.
So why the warning by Paul about "not continuing" to those who "will continue" ??????????????????
You also misquote Mat 7:23.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus specifically stated that many would profess His name yet HE would reject them for He never knew them and that they were WORKERS OF INIQUITY.
Why do you leave that last part off the verse?
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Yet you are teaching that this verse does not apply to an "individual believer" because you teach that you cannot be cut off for anything you do.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
So what exactly is Paul speaking about then? You must believe that you can disobey God and He cuts some branch off but not the actual individuals who rebelled?
You then contradict yourself by proclaiming "Perseverance of the Saints" (P in TULIP) when you say...
Can you see the contradiction in your thinking? On the one hand you imply that if you do not continue in his goodness you will not be cut off, only the Gentile nation can be cut off (thus your still going to enter the kingdom). While on the other hand you teach that the saints WILL PATIENTLY CONTINUE.
So why the warning by Paul about "not continuing" to those who "will continue" ??????????????????
You also misquote Mat 7:23.
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Jesus specifically stated that many would profess His name yet HE would reject them for He never knew them and that they were WORKERS OF INIQUITY.
Why do you leave that last part off the verse?
Every good work that believers take on in Christ comes from and is rooted in the work of the cross, with no exceptions. Any command that we have been given under the new covenant of grace is to obeyed by faith because it comes from the work that was established and finished on the cross through our Lord Jesus Christ and the blood that was shed. Every work that comes from the gospel of Christ's death, burial and resurrection is a good work and a perfect gift that comes down from the Father (Jm 1:17). As we grow in grace and knowledge of the finished work and doctrine of Christ we are stirred up in the love of God to do good works. The first work (as psychomom has said) was to believe upon the Son and good works will follow as we grow up in Christ and are transformed through being renewed and learning to put off the carnality of the old man and to put on the new man who is spiritual and is after Christ.
First we must believe to be justified by faith through the work of the Son and then we will be able to take on the good works that will justify us before men and be received by man as the goodness of God leading them to a place of repentance. In that place of repentance, being dead in trespasses and sins, they will see the Son lifted up as the lamb that was slain for them so that they can believe and be cleansed, forgiven and justified from all their sin. The good work of the cross must act upon them through faith for them to be justified and then that justification become the practical outworking of the love of God and good works that reveal the goodness of God so that men will be saved and glorify the Father through the Son.
First we must believe to be justified by faith through the work of the Son and then we will be able to take on the good works that will justify us before men and be received by man as the goodness of God leading them to a place of repentance. In that place of repentance, being dead in trespasses and sins, they will see the Son lifted up as the lamb that was slain for them so that they can believe and be cleansed, forgiven and justified from all their sin. The good work of the cross must act upon them through faith for them to be justified and then that justification become the practical outworking of the love of God and good works that reveal the goodness of God so that men will be saved and glorify the Father through the Son.
Where exactly does the Bible teach that?
It is true that only one man lived a perfect life and never sinned yet you are saying that no-one can repent, yield to God and establish the righteous requirements of the law in their heart.
Paul taught that the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Please quote me where I taught anything of the sort. I have never stated that one can return to obedience and save ourselves. We can only be redeemed through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Of course we must be born again. I don't deny this, please stop accusing me of teachings things I do not teach.
If you think I teach this then PROVE IT.
Where exactly does the Bible teach that we are adopted into the family of God through "faith alone in the work of Christ" ???????????????????????
I don't see it in the book of Acts where they preached repentance and faith proven by deeds. I don't see Jesus teaching it anywhere? I see James specifically state that it is not by faith alone for he teaches that faith is an active dynamic, that real faith = doing.
Explain how was the Prodigal Son able to come to his senses and leave the pig pen BEFORE the Father restored him? Was he being prideful in his ignorance by forsaking that pig pen?
It is true that only one man lived a perfect life and never sinned yet you are saying that no-one can repent, yield to God and establish the righteous requirements of the law in their heart.
Paul taught that the righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us who walk after the Spirit.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Please quote me where I taught anything of the sort. I have never stated that one can return to obedience and save ourselves. We can only be redeemed through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Of course we must be born again. I don't deny this, please stop accusing me of teachings things I do not teach.
If you think I teach this then PROVE IT.
Where exactly does the Bible teach that we are adopted into the family of God through "faith alone in the work of Christ" ???????????????????????
I don't see it in the book of Acts where they preached repentance and faith proven by deeds. I don't see Jesus teaching it anywhere? I see James specifically state that it is not by faith alone for he teaches that faith is an active dynamic, that real faith = doing.
Explain how was the Prodigal Son able to come to his senses and leave the pig pen BEFORE the Father restored him? Was he being prideful in his ignorance by forsaking that pig pen?
Good stuff Matthew! What a great fire a little spark creates. I think in order to address Haz and for completeness sake you need to cite some scripture from the book of Hebrews in regard to "Faith" from the infamous "BY FAITH" section describing what many might see as 'works' ...
It gets to be a bit twisted mixing issues in with Martin Luther as a topic as he had other things to say about the 'works' system of the papacy which can be separated from the 'works' cited in Hebrews and elsewhere. Paul is also clear in addressing 'works of the law' such as circumcision as not being what he (or James) would count as righteous or properly motivated works.
Perhaps a re-cap and summary of the conceptual basis of motivation of works and separation of works of the law versus works towards mankind would help.
One summary might be ... 'man does not live by bread alone (e.g. corporate charity, 501c, Bill Gates, Catholic Charities and etc are really no good in and of themselves), but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God ... '
It gets to be a bit twisted mixing issues in with Martin Luther as a topic as he had other things to say about the 'works' system of the papacy which can be separated from the 'works' cited in Hebrews and elsewhere. Paul is also clear in addressing 'works of the law' such as circumcision as not being what he (or James) would count as righteous or properly motivated works.
Perhaps a re-cap and summary of the conceptual basis of motivation of works and separation of works of the law versus works towards mankind would help.
One summary might be ... 'man does not live by bread alone (e.g. corporate charity, 501c, Bill Gates, Catholic Charities and etc are really no good in and of themselves), but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God ... '