What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist etc

[Red_Tory]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

My point is that "absolute values" such as Truth, Goodness, Beauty, Justice etc. cannot be pursued for their own sake from a materialist perspective because they are, by their very definition "supernatural" (i.e. they have a metaphysical existence). To be a materialist and pursue absolute, metaphysical values would, in essence, be to pursue something that - by one's own admission - does not exist.

Instead, from a materialist perspective, these values are brought into the physical world (often as artificial social constructs or subjective appreciations) and subordinated unto physical objectives (such as the propagation of DNA or the hedonistic calculation). This does not mean that actions undertaken by atheists/materialists are "pointless" - it merely that they do not recognise these values as the end or goal in and of themselves.

 

[DannyC]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

truth, goodness and beauty I thought you knew? For atheists and theists alike most philosophers agree goodness and beauty follow truth I would feel.

 

[Red_Tory]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

truth, goodness and beauty I thought you knew? For atheists and theists alike most philosophers agree goodness and beauty follow truth I would feel.

Yes, that's what I thought. It's coming from the Platonic dialogues.


The problem I'm putting forward is this (sorry for repeating my last post, but I wasn't quite sure if you were referring to these):

Recall that Platonism is about an abstract, non-material world of pure Forms or values. They are, by their very definition, supernatural beings. The materialist perspective denies that this metaphysical realm inhabited by the Forms exists. Hence the problem of valuing Truth, Beauty, and Goodness as Forms ("absolute" beings or values) from a materialistic perspective is evident.



So to deny the existence of a supernatural entity on the grounds that it isn't true is to reject the Form of Truth itself - which is a supernatural entity. By asking the question, the assumption of value upon which the question itself is base (i.e. we should only believe in things that are true, therefore we should not believe in supernatural beings) is undermined by denying the existence of the Form.

 

[DannyC]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

My point is that "absolute values" such as Truth, Goodness, Beauty, Justice etc. cannot be pursued for their own sake from a materialist perspective because they are, by their very definition "supernatural" (i.e. they have a metaphysical existence). To be a materialist and pursue absolute, metaphysical values would, in essence, be to pursue something that - by one's own admission - does not exist.

Instead, from a materialist perspective, these values are brought into the physical world (often as artificial social constructs or subjective appreciations) and subordinated unto physical objectives (such as the propagation of DNA or the hedonistic calculation). This does not mean that actions undertaken by atheists/materialists are "pointless" - it merely that they do not recognise these values as the end or goal in and of themselves.

Unfortunately I feel you just googled the three absolute values, it's a topic of serious discussion either way, you do know you are arguing materialism not atheism spirituality and belief in god differ. I feel you sidelined my point by saying I admitted or the 'common naturalist' admits truth goodness and beauty don't exist. To be a materialist and pursue absolute, metaphysical values would, in essence, be to pursue something that - by one's own admission - does not exist. We don't know they don't exist that is why we pursue them. I don't have a Marxist premise about objective truth or materialism, but you feel I do or the average atheist does, materialism and atheism are not similar we have moved to using materialistic ideals and placing them on atheistic beliefs. You use the broad term of materialism. . Nonreductive materialism also allows the existence of nonphysical properties that inhere in, or emerge from, a physical substrate. Consequently, it is sometimes called emergent materialism or property dualism. In the broad sense, nonreductive materialism holds that everything is physical or at least dependent upon the physical; and in the narrower sense it holds that the mind can have both physical and nonphysical aspects even though it must be instantiated in a physical system like the brain. Not my own words but gives an actual summary of the differences I can't state theism is X and label everyone with one belief because belief differs. I like your point but it doesn't support your belief as logical it just points out the fallacies of extreme beliefs middle ground is a point of fear for the opposition.

 

[Nick25]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

When you feel happy or sad, can you prove the existance of that feeling? can you share proofs of the intensity that you are feeling ? now that is God! You just know it and don't really understand it

 

[DannyC]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

unfortunately emotions while powerful and can be beautiful due to our evolutionary ability to reason our actions unlike other animals can be explained through biology. On The etheric plane it is explained well, I do admit I still wonder about our abilities but I don't feel I can link them to any god or deity.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Oh good Reality got banned.

Yeah, it's a Christian forum. No realities allowed!

 

[PopClick]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

All your realities are belong to us.

, back to being serious...

 

[Flutteraritypiejackspark]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

St. Thomas Aquinas proved that religion can be explained with logic and science.

 

[carolineh]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Woah woah woah okay im going to keep this short and simple. If you WANT scientific answers to prove the "scientific proof that God doesn't exist" FALSE you need to go to this link below. EVERYBODY and ANYBODY who wants to know the truth about evolution and all those fairy tales.

Here it is, FreeHovind - just click it and watch the video seminars they are very very interesting It will really open up your mind and will encourage and convince you that God is the Creator of all

that is one of the most incredible videos I have ever seen..what a blessing

 

[james65]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

We are only to preach Christ crucified. And live his example. Tell them its not our job to make them believe

 

[FM10]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Hello sometimes i get asked questions and most of the time there are like scientists HAVE fully proven evolution and that Darwin was a christian but conviced himself from the evidence that god doent exist etc and how old the world is and that the bible isnt proof of existance , what do i say to people without getting angry ?

Some questions are like ive suffered all my life and was a christian and had faith etc but i was only happy when i became an athiest......

What do i say to these people?

I assume your talking about macro evolution. It most definitely has not been proven and anyone who says it has been isn't telling you the truth. It's as simple as that.

The world is approx 6,000 years old. We can know that by counting the lineage (found in the bible) from Christ back to Adam (the first man) which is 4,000 years then add 2,000 years because we know Jesus came 2,000 years ago.

The proof of God is in his creation. Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20

Even Richard Dawkins admitted, “if you look at the details of biochemistry and molecular biology you might find a signature of some sort of designer.”

Richard Dawkins admits to Intelligent Design - YouTube

Man's arguments against God is totally futile.

Don't get angry, why should you? You know the truth, they don't. They are blinded by lies. Simply answer with what you know is true. You are not obliged to give scientific theory etc, simply state the truth and leave it at that.

People who blame God for how they suffered, are not true christians otherwise they would have kept the faith. This is a life of suffering so a person needs to accept that. Instead of rebelling against God, they should have put they did have into him. We live in a world full of sin, suffering is bound to affect us all to certain degrees.

 

[DannyC]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

I assume your talking about macro evolution. It most definitely has not been proven and anyone who says it has been isn't telling you the truth. It's as simple as that.

The world is approx 6,000 years old. We can know that by counting the lineage (found in the bible) from Christ back to Adam (the first man) which is 4,000 years then add 2,000 years because we know Jesus came 2,000 years ago.

The proof of God is in his creation. Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20

Even Richard Dawkins admitted, “if you look at the details of biochemistry and molecular biology you might find a signature of some sort of designer.”

Richard Dawkins admits to Intelligent Design - YouTube

Man's arguments against God is totally futile.

Don't get angry, why should you? You know the truth, they don't. They are blinded by lies. Simply answer with what you know is true. You are not obliged to give scientific theory etc, simply state the truth and leave it at that.

People who blame God for how they suffered, are not true christians otherwise they would have kept the faith. This is a life of suffering so a person needs to accept that. Instead of rebelling against God, they should have put they did have into him. We live in a world full of sin, suffering is bound to affect us all to certain degrees.

A couple of things just to note, macro evolution and micro evolution are not terms found in the theory of evolution if you accept one and dismiss the other you don't have an actual understanding of the theory.I don't really understand the age of the earth argument I don't think it's relevant. You can easily accept evolution and reconcile it with your faith.

To misrepresent Dawkins in that fashion is deplorable, you know what he meant, he didn't mean intelligent design in the form of a god in any sense, rather evolutionary higher beings which planted the seed for our evolution nothing to do with god. Whether you like his hypothesis or not is irrelevant to understanding what he said and it should not be placed as a quote to support your belief which are completely different.

 

[TheKringledOne]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Richard Dawkins admits to Intelligent Design - YouTube

Man's arguments against God is totally futile..

A lot of suspicious cuts there. It is pretty clear that Dawkins is responding to a different question than the one shown in the video. There are lots of ways to edit videos to make it sound like people are saying some things that they aren't. You might enjoy the following video: TV Tricks of the Trade -- UK and Ireland version - YouTube
And here is the specific example that you posted: Golden Crocoduck nominees 2012 (Part 3) - YouTube

There are a lot of arguments people can make against the necessity of a god, but that doesn't mean that a god does not exist.

I think the most important thing that people should try to remember is that if you do not want to have a discussion with them then don't have a discussion. If you decide you do want to have the conversation to some of their questions, just tell them that you don't have the answers. Not having the answers to something doesn't mean that your position overall is weak. It just means that you haven't thought about, or researched, that specific thing and can't make comments about it. I think its good to have discussions with atheists if you are a Christian. If it turns out that you are right than you did an amazing thing for these people by planting a seed. Perhaps in the future they will open there eyes and feel the holy spirit in them.

 

[RickShafer]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

'To misrepresent Dawkins in this fashion is deplorable.'

The gospel according to Dawkins.- DannyC 1:6

Ahhh,.....hahaha!!!!

 

[TruthBeTold]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Yeah, it's a Christian forum. No realities allowed!

This sounds ironic.

 

[hellopeople]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Ephesians 6:16
In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;

 

[jimmydiggs]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

This sounds ironic.

The intent was humor. I'm surprised you missed that.

 

[TruthBeTold]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

The intent was humor. I'm surprised you missed that.

I'm surprised you missed all your special pleading fallacies throughout this thread.

 

[hattiebod]

Re: What to do when atheiests attack you with questions and "proof"god dosent exist e

Biblically...no point in trying to convert & convince, it will only cause pain & confussion, each side trying to confince the other. Biblically we are to step back. it is not by our aggression & argumentitive statce that we will be known, but rather by our love for one another. That means our love for all... <><