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Romans 9:11,16
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
How can salvation be not about works but somehow we must find something inside ourselves to desire things of the Spirit when we are not made alive to the Spirit yet, and walk accordingly??
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
How can salvation be not about works but somehow we must find something inside ourselves to desire things of the Spirit when we are not made alive to the Spirit yet, and walk accordingly??
The passage you quoted was telling a child of God to abide in him, for we can do nothing without God. Why are you now trying to say we must do it first to be saved?
Jesus told us (his children) to abide in him, for we can do nothing without God. We can be his children and chose not to abide in him at a point in our life. can we do anything for God in this state?
You do understand romans 9: 11 is speaking of the calling of Isreal as a nation do you not? and not about the kids?
9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”
Spoken to rebecca in 2000 BC Gen 5: 23 - 23 And the Lord said to her: “Two nations are in your womb, Two peoples shall be separated from your body; One people shall be stronger than the other, And the older shall serve the younger.”
so why are you trying to make it look like he is talking about kids?
Purpose of God according to election? What is election?
1. Election is based on predestination, which is based on foreknowledge.
2. Election is based on the choosing of the nation of Isreal. not because of the forefathers righteousness, as the jews claimed, but before they were even born.
3. The same elect as Paul said in romans 11. Isreal, is our enemy for the gospel (because they reject it) but to be beloved for the election.
Again I ask. Is Paul talking about two kids, or two nations? Scripture says nations, so why do you all want to make it kids? God told rebecca two nations. One shall serve the other, one shall rule over the other. Paul did not twist what God said, he just left the word (nations and peoples) out and paraphrased it because the people he spoke to would know he spoke ofnations not children.
If I would have known before hand how Good He Is I would have chosen Him. But He had to change me and show me His Love before I could see it. I was not smart enough or good enough to see His Goodness for myself before He Saved me.
And I agree. But he could not save you until he first removed your the penalty of sin and justified you. And God makes it clear. this is by faith only in his work. We can know we are condemned, in fact paul says we do know it (romans 1) this is why God draws us with his word, and other people, to show us the word to see what he is offering. You can see Gods goodness. it is in the gospel. you just will have problems fully understanding it until you are saved. It is called a book knowledge vs experiential knowledge. How can you experience Gods love if you have no free will and are preprogramed? you can't. Because you will not be given th eopportunity to fail again and see his forgiveness for real. because you have no free will to fail. you can only do what God says.