Righteous or Rude?

[myboots]

I am a new christian as some of you may already know. I was saved by a Catholic Lady and of course by Jesus. Anyways that catholic lady is now my adopted mom (it'll make sense if you read my testimony).

Anyways, I used to go to a Catholic Church with my adopted mom in Ohio. One day when I wore a Marilyn Manson T-Shirt to church, the priest called us to his office after mass. He basically kicked us out of the church. I have a decent transcript of how it went down. (My adopted mother e-mailed it to me on my request, that women wrote it down as soon as we got in the car, she said she wanted to take it to the bishop and I talked her out of it). So here it is; it's not exact word for word but very close according to my own memory of it as well.

Priest: Hello, you two.

Mom and I: Hi.

Priest to my mom: She is not allowed to come here anymore.

Mom: why?

Priest: She is evil.

Mom: No she is not, why would you think that?

Priest: Because of her shirt.

Mom: you are judging someone by what they are wearing?

Priest: It is an accurate description of how evil that girl is.

Mom: she is not evil, she is a very nice and beautiful girl.

Priest: she is pure evil, she wears inappropriate clothing every time.

Mom: inappropriate clothing?

Priest: Ripped jeans, cut-off tank tops,
and band T-shirts. Today as you can tell she even wore black "goth" makeup.

Mom: so you don't like her because of the way she dresses?

Priest: in essence yes.

Mom: Church is not about how someone dresses.

Preist: She just doesn't belong here.

Mom: belong here? you don't get to decide who belong's in the lord's church. Only the lord does.

Mom: I don't think you know what this girl is going through, She is dying she has terminal cancer and she is very afraid and unstable right now.

Priest: Good, how long is it until she will be burning in hell for all her evil doings?

Mom: Now just hold on a second, that won't happen. She believes in the lord jesus christ.

Preist: She will burn in hell forever! She doesn't belong here and that's all.

Mom: You sir are forgetting what your job is, to help those in need and heal the broken. Not judge people based on their choice in clothing or music.

Preist: Don't get all smart on me.

Mom: I found her on the street. I told her about the lord. I gave her shelter. I washed her. I fed her. I clothed her. When i found out she was an orphan I adopted her. I knew when I saw her that the lord wanted me to help her so I didn't question it and I did.

Preist: you invited an evil child into your home.

**I start to cry at this point**

Mom: don't talk about my daughter that way. Now you've made a girl dying of

cancer cry. How can you live with yourself now?

Priest: she is not your daughter!

Mom: well she is now! I am happy to welcome this girl into my family.

Priest: you are making a big mistake helping this girl, i can see evil all about her.

Mom: you sir are no man of God! you do not heal the broken, you do not have love in your heart. you are a poser! and may the lord forgive you for making a mockery out of his church!

Mom: come on taylor were leaving!


So is what my mom said rude or righteous what do you think? Also what do you think about any part of it?

 

[damombomb]

That is one of my pet peaves, Jesus died and I mean died for all of us, and to have a minister say such a thing is beyond me. Grace is what saved him to, sorry this happened to you. He was rude. He will have to answer for that. Jesus never acted like that except to the pharases
and the religious people. Reminds me of when Jesus was eating and they said, oh can you believe he eats wihtout washing his hands, Jesus
told them they were hipocrites, vipors, snakes and told them they were whitewashed tombs, for them to clean up the inside of the platter ect
In other words Jesus says come as you are
God bless you!!

 

[JimJimmers]

I say righteous! The nerve of that priest! Did he ever even think of asking you to not wear M.M. shirts to worship, instead of calling you evil and kicking you out of the congregation?

 

[Custos_Clavium]

Here's what you do:

1. Learn which diocese you live in, and which diocese the church was in which the priest worked.
2. Write or call the chancellory for your Diocese (the Bishop's office), and send them this transcript or tell them what happened.
3. Try to get the full name of the priest (check church bulletin, call the parish) and use that info when you contact the diocese.

Basically, no priest should behave that way. And to be honest with you, I am giving you the benefit of a doubt when you say this is a true story, because anyone can say anything these days, and that sounds in no way like the way any priest I have ever known would deal with your situation. It sound's really...scripted to be honest***. But, I am giving you the benefit of a doubt.

No priest can kick anyone out of the church like that. Go to a different Catholic church...you're in Canada, there's probably tons of them. Also, I am Catholic, and if you need any advice, encouragement, or someone to talk to, feel free.

That being said:

If you can help it, always try to dress ''nicer'' for church. If you have to wear t-shirts and jeans, try to pick out an outfit that isn't going to draw attention to yourself. I know you are young and still learning, but Marilyn Manson isn't exactly compatible with going to Church. If you are not ready to try to listen to something different, at least don't wear band shirts for people like that to church. I can get away wearing jeans and a t-shirt to mass where I am no problem, but I choose shirts I got from church-related events or shirts that are non-offensive (not that I have offensive shirts), but I go to a rural parish and that's how everyone dresses.

*** mainly because your account of how you were saved doesn't sound like the behavior of how Catholics introduce people to the faith. The stories don't match up.

 

[Blain]

Honestly that priest is no man of god, in his mind he is rightious but he is clearly not. It horrified me to read what he said and right now i am too angry to say anymore about him for fear of saying what is on my mind.... But not only was your mom rightious she brought glory and honor to god and so did you.

 

[myboots]

Here's what you do:

1. Learn which diocese you live in, and which diocese the church was in which the priest worked.
2. Write or call the chancellory for your Diocese (the Bishop's office), and send them this transcript or tell them what happened.
3. Try to get the full name of the priest (check church bulletin, call the parish) and use that info when you contact the diocese.

Basically, no priest should behave that way. And to be honest with you, I am giving you the benefit of a doubt when you say this is a true story, because anyone can say anything these days, and that sounds in no way like the way any priest I have ever known would deal with your situation. It sound's really...scripted to be honest***. But, I am giving you the benefit of a doubt.

No priest can kick anyone out of the church like that. Go to a different Catholic church...you're in Canada, there's probably tons of them. Also, I am Catholic, and if you need any advice, encouragement, or someone to talk to, feel free.

That being said:

If you can help it, always try to dress ''nicer'' for church. If you have to wear t-shirts and jeans, try to pick out an outfit that isn't going to draw attention to yourself. I know you are young and still learning, but Marilyn Manson isn't exactly compatible with going to Church. If you are not ready to try to listen to something different, at least don't wear band shirts for people like that to church. I can get away wearing jeans and a t-shirt to mass where I am no problem, but I choose shirts I got from church-related events or shirts that are non-offensive (not that I have offensive shirts), but I go to a rural parish and that's how everyone dresses.

*** mainly because your account of how you were saved doesn't sound like the behavior of how Catholics introduce people to the faith. The stories don't match up.

alright thank you, but what's wrong with listening to Marilyn Manson?

 

[myboots]

*** mainly because your account of how you were saved doesn't sound like the behavior of how Catholics introduce people to the faith. The stories don't match up.

hmm maybe she's just a little original too then, not everyone has to act the same. She did take me to confession though. I think that whole house stuff was just her wanting to help me out no matter what.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

The power to avoid that entire situation was in your hands. You want me to side with you over the priest, and I suppose I do, but underneath all of his religiosity and judgementalism: he had a point. Don't dress like the devil when you go to church and you'll have fewer problems. Plenty of restaurants wouldn't let you in looking like that either. How many people did you cause to stumble by dressing like that?

Wear a nice Christian t-shirt instead of a Marilyn Manson t-shirt and pants without any holes in them. Problem solved. Case closed.

 

[myboots]

*** mainly because your account of how you were saved doesn't sound like the behavior of how Catholics introduce people to the faith. The stories don't match up.

and she also told me that she doesn't completely see eye to eye with the church.

 

[Custos_Clavium]

Many popular artists can write songs that are good for Christians to listen to, and songs that are bad to listen to. Very few artists write bad music exclusively. Even the ''worst'' popular artists occasionally write great songs a Christian could be comfortable with.

The situation with Marilyn Manson is that his image, over all, is geared toward being anti-religion in general, and anti-Christianity specifically.

Since you were once a Satanist, you may or may not know that the LeVey form of Satanism sets up its rituals so that they are directly mocking the Catholic Mass. Basically, the Satanist religion is made to be a mockery of Catholicism intentionally. That's why it's called a black mass. Marilyn Manson is a self-described Satanist who belongs to that particular branch of the Church of Satan. He is even an ''honorary'' member of the Satanic priesthood.

Basically, a man who adheres to a religion that is essentially a mockery of the Christian Church is not a good role model for a Christian. His music is not either (He has an album called Antichrist Superstar, And Holy Wood - which mocks the Cross). His songs go against the Church. His lifestyle goes against the church. I can't see how any of his music could be good for a Christian to listen to.

Perhaps you could explain why you feel a Christian should listen to Marilyn Manson?

 

[Blain]

The power to avoid that entire situation was in your hands. You want me to side with you over the priest, and I suppose I do, but underneath all of his religiosity and judgementalism: he had a point. Don't dress like the devil when you go to church and you'll have fewer problems. Plenty of restaurants wouldn't let you in looking like that either. How many people did you cause to stumble by dressing like that?

Wear a nice Christian t-shirt instead of a Marilyn Manson t-shirt and pants without any holes in them. Problem solved. Case closed.

Please be quite and leave her alone....

 

[Blain]

God looks at the heart not what you wear, i mean if you walk into a church with a satanic shirt on you might get some gasps and stares but still everyone belong to the family of god. I highly doubt god cares what cloths you wear

 

[Custos_Clavium]

I mean, yeah, wear what you have...but if you can do something about it, don't support a Satanic artist or his music in your clothing, and definitely don't do so in a Christian church. There's a time and a place. If that is the only shirt you have...turn it inside out.

 

[libertygirl]

Mom: you sir are no man of God! you do not heal the broken, you do not have love in your heart. you are a poser! and may the lord forgive you for making a mockery out of his church!

Mom: come on taylor were leaving!


So is what my mom said rude or righteous what do you think? Also what do you think about any part of it?

Your mom is right, that priest is a poser. Ugh, what he said makes me feel so sick. He looks like the evil one to me.

God loves you.

 

[kenisyes]

You asked for everyone's opinions, let's not forget God's opinions. James 1:26-2:6. Your mother is a prophet, one of hundreds sent over the last 50 years to the Catholics. Luke 6:22-26; Matt. 23:34-39. Already, almost half the Catholic churches that stood when I was a child have been closed. I'm certain God's patience is wearing thin. Just make sure YOU are coming in the name of the Lord, however you choose to dress. And I'm going to pray for God's power mightily in your life.

 

[myboots]

thanks guys. I tried to multiquote everyone but it did not work for me. Thank you for your support. But. I must stress marilyn manson is not satanic. AntichristSuperstar is an album about going from weak to strong. In it "Christ" is used as a metaphor for the mainstream and I gotta say **** the mainstream! it's what got me in my horrible situation in the first place. I was a LaVeyan Satanist until Recently yes, but it seems you've totally misconstrued what that religion teaches, and are focusing on the rituals and the "flashy-ness" of it. I find some teachings to still be good but the majority of them are contradictory with god.As for my mom thank you guys, thats exactly how I think about her too. to me she is an absolute saint. I love her and she loves me.

And I didn't wer a satanic t-shirt it was just a a band t-shirt for marilyn manson.

 

[myboots]

you guys should of seen the look on her face when she saw all the satanic symbols on my clothing that one night. well it's not funny but you know it was to me at that time.

 

[Blain]

Oops, i didn't mean you were actually wearing satanic cloths that was just an example. If people are going to tell you what to wear in church perhaps that is their own way of doing things, but honestly i love dark cloths. Idk why, black jeans are amazing looking and i like gray and shades of darker stuff.. ithats just my style i sometimes go to church in those and no one even glances so..

 

[Custos_Clavium]

You asked for everyone's opinions, let's not forget God's opinions. James 1:26-2:6. Your mother is a prophet, one of hundreds sent over the last 50 years to the Catholics. Luke 6:22-26; Matt. 23:34-39. Already, almost half the Catholic churches that stood when I was a child have been closed. I'm certain God's patience is wearing thin. Just make sure YOU are coming in the name of the Lord, however you choose to dress. And I'm going to pray for God's power mightily in your life.

Don't worry, they all moved Down South. Catholic Churches in the South are bursting at the seams because of all the Northern Catholics moving down there...particularly to the Charlotte area for Banking jobs. My home parish began in a gym and 10 years later needed a church big enough for 1500 families. The built it. 8 years after that, they needed a bigger church for 3000 families. Just got built. We've been blessed.




But anyway, Myboots, I know you are still young and it may not make sense to you now, but The Church of Satan is just that: The Church of Satan. It's members may profess that it's all a joke and that they don't believe in a actual devil, or that the devil is a metaphor for honoring their own desires and will.

If you are going to continue to grow in the Christian faith, it is imperative that you learn that nothing that professes Satan as its role model, out of jest or seriousness, is ever going to be compatible with a Christian lifestyle. Christianity, among many things, preaches reliance upon the grace of God, following God's will, and giving honor to him and his works...not the Satanic ideal of honoring yourself, your own will, or following your own mind in all matters. I do not know what kind of religious instruction you have been given since being saved, but eventually someone responsible for that instruction should mention this. If not, ask them for a clarification on the topic.

If you want to follow the Gothic style, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. My understanding is that the Goth subculture is a broad category in which people could practice any faith or no faith and still uphold the Goth image. I don't see anything wrong with wearing dark clothing (hey, I like it to!). Black is slimming, after all, and matches everything

Since it seems you are being slowly introduced to Catholicism (and hopefully soon with better experiences), you will notice that many priests wear black all the time. So do many monks and nuns. They will tell you that, back when their orders were founded hundreds of years ago, black clothing was the clothing of the poor and lower class. It was modest. It was not flashy. Only the rich and noble wore bright colors, or could afford fancy dyes. Wearing black demonstrated humility and solidarity with the common man. For similar reasons, the Puritans adopted this dress code when they came to America long, long ago. There is nothing wrong with wearing black, so wear it to your heart's content.

You will find there is a lot of Christian imagery that can appear a little ''dark'' sometimes. I know I have a crucifix where, on the cross, Jesus' crucified feet are resting atop a skull. It seems odd, but the image of the skull represents death, and the crucifix with Jesus's feet on the skull represents Christ conquering death by the cross and for mankind. Just look around, you'll find stuff to express yourself that is still compatible with the Christian faith. There is no need to look for it in Satanic imagery or Marilyn Manson.

 

[kenisyes]

Don't worry, they all moved Down South. Catholic Churches in the South are bursting at the seams because of all the Northern Catholics moving down there...particularly to the Charlotte area for Banking jobs. My home parish began in a gym and 10 years later needed a church big enough for 1500 families. The built it. 8 years after that, they needed a bigger church for 3000 families. Just got built. We've been blessed.

I'd do some arithmetic before saying "all". Half of the people I know who left, started or joined non-denoms.