Is fellowship possible between Calvinists and Arminians?

[zone]

Dear Zone,
nope..I have not read any of Augustine yet, But from what i hear he didnt finish well..as was the case with Calvin, and sadly even Luther got caught up in the spread of the gospel by force, and at least the case with Calvin, and i heard possibly with Luther(must look into it, and even with Augustine) that they were murderers.

right.
there was a lot of that going on then.
we must know and understand history.

if we look at the War on Terror (which is actually a Global slaughter for Anglo/Israel); certain sects of Christianity are okay with murdering for Jesus.

way more than any of the Reformers EVER did.
and the body count is higher than the Inquisition.

i think you'll like Auggie.
try to have some compassion and know the world they lived in.

I know for a fact Calvin was of at least one person(Serventus) And there was no proof of Calvin ever mentioning his born again,new birth experience..what it seen however is his pointing to his catholic baby baptism(it seems as if Calvin held onto much of the catholicism he allegedly hated, sounds confusing to me)

there's a lot to learn from their writings. and knowing the timeline.

But yes, i saw that luther movie..it was good. And God used a highly flawed man like Luther during the reformation. Sadly many protestants are all too proud to be protestants in identity but hardly christian in lifestyle, so i have noticed. Just saying..

i loved your posts...until this:

"Sadly many protestants are all too proud to be protestants in identity but hardly christian in lifestyle, so i have noticed. Just saying"

ya know? same old same old.
like okay....but check with those same ppl next year...maybe they will have overcome?

let's talk about the Reformation and Wesley...tomorrow?
nite rauleetoe
love zone.

 

[PatientSpirit]

I will never understand these threads. Too many names for only one God. We have bigger issues at hand, and yet we still debate over such issues as who we are of! You all know what I believe. Life for all, sealed and hid in Christ.

And for good reason! Look at how we treat eachother with the treasures of the earth!

There are people homeless and starving and yet there are atleast 5 empty homes on my block alone! Money is truly the root of all evil!

But as long as we're entertained it's ok. We're a few years, maybe months from this country's first default on it's loans in HISTORY. And yet one gives a 5 million dollar watch to another for a birthday present.

AND EVERYONE KNOWS THAT THEIR TIME HERE IS SHORT! That 5 million dollar watch, WILL ONE DAY BELONG TO ANOTHER!

The people are again idle. How long will we continue turning our backs to the people forced to now make bricks with no straw? Because we are trapped in the same! Because we would rather sell crosses to our brothers than to carry them for our brothers.

What happened to all things common?

 

[zone]

The people are again idle. How long will we continue turning our backs to the people forced to now make bricks with no straw? Because we are trapped in the same! Because we would rather sell crosses to our brothers than to carry them for our brothers.

What happened to all things common?

the ppl are idle because they have been degraded on purpose.
nobody believed the warnings.

we fell for the same old tricks.
again.

the money & culture changers have had a lot of practice.

but it doesn't ultimately matter, does it, Mr. Universalist?
no big deal if i live high and let others suffer - we all get the same reward, right?
a few days in the lake of fire to get cleaned up and it will all have been worth it.

 

[PatientSpirit]

the ppl are idle because they have been degraded on purpose.
nobody believed the warnings.

we fell for the same old tricks.
again.

the money & culture changers have had a lot of practice.

but it doesn't ultimately matter, does it, Mr. Universalist?
no big deal if i live high and let others suffer - we all get the same reward, right?
a few days in the lake of fire to get cleaned up and it will all have been worth it.

That is correct beloved. We all receive a penny's wage. But we must still run the race. Knowing the fate that awaits us in death and life from it, having the means to make life enjoyable fire all is physically attainable now. But we would rather be slaves to money.

 

[tribesman]

I am a 5-point Calvinist. I often find that most of American Evangelicals are Arminian. I have fellowshipped with some and divided the word on many issues and always managed to disagree in love. However, there are many Arminian s who are radical anti-Calvinistic many on this very site. Is it possible to coexist.

If they're anti-calvinist, nope. If they are just not "educated" enough on calvinism and open to it, then maybe.

Sooner or later many of those not-so-well-learned-in-church-history arminians will find themselves actually having or sharing some "calvinist" views themselves. Usually it all boils down to the issue of justification and that's where the hinder is.

Only full communion with those of same faith.

 

[tribesman]

yup: become a Lutheran!
lol.

Wb zone!

 

[rauleetoe]

If they're anti-calvinist, nope. If they are just not "educated" enough on calvinism and open to it, then maybe.

Sooner or later many of those not-so-well-learned-in-church-history arminians will find themselves actually having or sharing some "calvinist" views themselves. Usually it all boils down to the issue of justification and that's where the hinder is.

Only full communion with those of same faith.

actually sir, where we differ mostly is in.that we reject absolute divine determinism,, we actually, like Arminius, Wesley, agreed that salvation is all grace.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

actually sir, where we differ mostly is in.that we reject absolute divine determinism,, we actually, like Arminius, Wesley, agreed that salvation is all grace.

you can not believe this. if you did, you would not go around teaching people can lose salvation if they do not meet some standard, whatever standard that may be, thus your basing salvation on self and your ability, and not on Christ.

While Calvin goes at it ina way that frankly sets me off, at least they got the important part right. Eternal life is eternal, not conditional. The seal of the spirit is permanent, and can not be broken by any man. And when God says he will never leave you, he means it!

 

[zone]

Wb zone!

tribesman!!!!

long time no see!

i was fixing to come and find you (what with all the confusion over calvinism and stuff)...but its taking sooooo long for Victor to get big enough.

SOLAS!
love zone

 

[tribesman]

tribesman!!!!

long time no see!

i was fixing to come and find you (what with all the confusion over calvinism and stuff)...but its taking sooooo long for Victor to get big enough.

SOLAS!
love zone

Yaaaiy!!! Too long indeed.

Very cute calf.

Worth some tagine...

 

[rauleetoe]

you can not believe this. if you did, you would not go around teaching people can lose salvation if they do not meet some standard, whatever standard that may be, thus your basing salvation on self and your ability, and not on Christ.

While Calvin goes at it ina way that frankly sets me off, at least they got the important part right. Eternal life is eternal, not conditional. The seal of the spirit is permanent, and can not be broken by any man. And when God says he will never leave you, he means it!

I thought you were done speaking/talking about this..Gosh you are relentless. If you already believe I am going to hell, obviously nothing is going to change this will it? I can only point to that which i did point to tribesman, and as much as i am sure tribesman disagrees with me..id like to think others who oppose calvinism do not go as far as you have to say that almost all,if not all arminians(in your eyes) are unsaved, and all calvinists are. So, who's words condemn who again? If i am going to 'hell' as you so obviously assume, i sure hope they reserve a spot for me next to you..so you can be eternally annoyed

 

[rauleetoe]

right.
there was a lot of that going on then.
we must know and understand history.

if we look at the War on Terror (which is actually a Global slaughter for Anglo/Israel); certain sects of Christianity are okay with murdering for Jesus.

way more than any of the Reformers EVER did.
and the body count is higher than the Inquisition.

i think you'll like Auggie.
try to have some compassion and know the world they lived in.



there's a lot to learn from their writings. and knowing the timeline.



i loved your posts...until this:

"Sadly many protestants are all too proud to be protestants in identity but hardly christian in lifestyle, so i have noticed. Just saying"

ya know? same old same old.
like okay....but check with those same ppl next year...maybe they will have overcome?

let's talk about the Reformation and Wesley...tomorrow?
nite rauleetoe
love zone.

I can only speak about those whom i have seen, regarding protestants..not all, just saying sadly more than they should be not living right..and the vitriol against catholics(now there is much to be disagreed about roman catholicism, but i am of the persuation/conviction that i believe that there may be some who are truly saved, and just choose to stay in the church of rome..for many different reasons)
As far as Wesley, i am sure you do not agree with his view on christian perfection/holiness..and i have just discovered the wesleyan church less than a year ago, but i have to be honest..I had an instant good lasting impression about Wesleyans, and the Wesleyan church.

 

[Grandpa]

Free will is libertarian and a gift given by God.

Where in the bible is that written??

because he honors the relationship between him and those who freely accept this gift of salvation, as they are enabled by prevenient grace. It is all God..its not a thing we do on our own. Once again, stick with what is said..I never said we do anything of our own.
The arminian believes God is sovereign, of course if you make the definition of sovereignty to be obligatorily lumped together with Divine determinism..then according to that limitation of the definition then yes. But can God be sovereign without making everything that happens in this world be his fault and doing? I say yes he can. No..i never said i am against the bible. Do not place words in my mouth that i never said. And if you ever read some books on what calvinism actually teaches or do a little research on the soteriology you identify with..you will see that double predistination is what Calvin taught after building upon what Augustine taught, which was single predestination. Which in an essence means that some were forordained and predetermined unto salvation, and others according to Calvin, were passed over..for God's good pleasure supposedly..and yet this damning those who were withheld and not given this enabling grace to do anything more than what they had been doing somehow makes it right and just to then punish these same ones who would have been better off not being alive since they were predetermined to a hell and never given the grace to have any other option. Tell me grandpa, how is this biblical? In the light of romans 9 halfway through the chapter and not starting at verse one i guess you could come up with this conclusion. But i doubt you do a full study of the bible, seeing as you accuse me of not believing the bibe because i reject Determinism and compatibilism..what of the early church? I guess they not having Augustine and Calvin to teach them the 'gospel' they too did not believe the bible according to this opinion of yours.

The rest of this junk is you talking in circles. If you can manage to define any of your terms and ask a clear question I will be happy to answer. If you wish to remain vague and argumentative then I have no wish to continue this discussion. There's really no point, wouldn't you agree?

 

[rauleetoe]

Where in the bible is that written??




The rest of this junk is you talking in circles. If you can manage to define any of your terms and ask a clear question I will be happy to answer. If you wish to remain vague and argumentative then I have no wish to continue this discussion. There's really no point, wouldn't you agree?

I am not trying to argue..but seeing as you claiming to be a calvinist not even knowing what double predestination is was quite amazing to me actually,its the theological implication that few calvinists will be sincere enough to admit, but you did not even know about it? hmm..interesting...since its what your theological persuation is built upon. That and determinism. But how is appealing to God's goodness talking in circles?
I know how the dismissive, don't challenge God, aka shutup in jesus name response goes with calvinists..but i really do not think you want to be proven wrong. John 3:17..for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world..
1 john2:2, 1 timothy 2:4,1 tim 4:10, 2 peter 3:9..you were shown scriptures dude..you merely looked past them..
oh and romans 9 starts at verse 1, just saying gramps.

 

[rauleetoe]

Hey grandpa..ever read the verse, in the old testament.. as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!(sounds like a concious choice, so much for your no freewill claim), and what about deuteronomy 30:19..therefore choose life so that you and your descendents may live.

Wait, is God being insincere by telling someone to do that which they cannot do? He unlike man, cannot lie. I take him at his work grandpa. You have been shown this before, either you read it with reform goggles on or choose to blatantly ignore it and wish to be reduced to a robotic automation..which you are not..and i am not..none of us are. God's not a cruel puppetmaster..and you wonder why folks do not want anything to do with God? Because they see him how he is painted by calvinists..that's why..i would not wanna serve that kind of God either!

 

[tribesman]

Hey grandpa..ever read the verse, in the old testament.. as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!(sounds like a concious choice, so much for your no freewill claim), and what about deuteronomy 30:19..therefore choose life so that you and your descendents may live.

Just a note: these addresses were given to God's covenant people. They were not universal and general and they do not imply universal ability.

 

[Grandpa]

I am not trying to argue..but seeing as you claiming to be a calvinist not even knowing what double predestination is was quite amazing to me actually,its the theological implication that few calvinists will be sincere enough to admit, but you did not even know about it? hmm..interesting...since its what your theological persuation is built upon. That and determinism. But how is appealing to God's goodness talking in circles?
I know how the dismissive, don't challenge God, aka shutup in jesus name response goes with calvinists..but i really do not think you want to be proven wrong. John 3:17..for God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world..
1 john2:2, 1 timothy 2:4,1 tim 4:10, 2 peter 3:9..you were shown scriptures dude..you merely looked past them..
oh and romans 9 starts at verse 1, just saying gramps.

I've read Institutes of the Christian Religion and I didn't see double predestination in there anywhere.

Perhaps if you could describe what it actually is we could talk about it. I have a feeling it is a term made up by arminians...

I read all your scriptures you just listed and none of them said that 'free will' is libertarian and a gift of God. Were you dis-honest purposely or are you just misinterpreting something??

 

[zone]

I can only speak about those whom i have seen, regarding protestants..not all, just saying sadly more than they should be not living right..and the vitriol against catholics(now there is much to be disagreed about roman catholicism, but i am of the persuation/conviction that i believe that there may be some who are truly saved, and just choose to stay in the church of rome..for many different reasons)
As far as Wesley, i am sure you do not agree with his view on christian perfection/holiness..and i have just discovered the wesleyan church less than a year ago, but i have to be honest..I had an instant good lasting impression about Wesleyans, and the Wesleyan church.

hi rauleetoe
i agree there must be many saved catholics (particularly the ones who aren't paying attention)
can we not say the same about calvinists (even the cranky ones)?
and wesleyans (who know they're not perfect)?

striving for holiness is good.
but perfectionism is a very dangerous idea, rauleetoe....be careful bud.
k?

if Wesleyanism doesn't work out for ya, you could be a Lutheran
i'm sure we could devise some sort of Method that Works

seriously though - monergism is where it's at....why spend a whole pile of years figuring that out?
love zone.

 

[zone]

hi rauleetoe

if Wesleyanism doesn't work out for ya, you could be a Lutheran

love zone.

tsk....

what was i thinking?
you'd have to confess you are sinner.
n.m

 

[rauleetoe]

hi rauleetoe
i agree there must be many saved catholics (particularly the ones who aren't paying attention)
can we not say the same about calvinists (even the cranky ones)?
and wesleyans (who know they're not perfect)?

striving for holiness is good.
but perfectionism is a very dangerous idea, rauleetoe....be careful bud.
k?

if Wesleyanism doesn't work out for ya, you could be a Lutheran
i'm sure we could devise some sort of Method that Works

seriously though - monergism is where it's at....why spend a whole pile of years figuring that out?
love zone.

Actually while i respect that lutherans have some form of tradition, i do not think i could ever appeal to monergism..i actually believe synergism which only really means, don't resist God's spirit to work in you..that is where its at. I actually believe that it is possible, as it says in 1 peter 1, be ye holy, and 1 thessalonians 4:3, along with scriptures in hebrews 2,and hebrews 12..
Wesleyanism will work out, i only wish i could have discovered this emphasis sooner. Currently i am reading, True Holiness-the wesleyan arminian emphasis, by Roy S. Nicholson,it is an excellent read actually. Just because holiness theology may seem to be a challenge/difficult i appeal that it is only with God's spirit that this is possible. And i think that there are far more holes, and problems with emphasis of other 'expressions' of christianity in all honesty because there is not any practicality to it.