Do rituals have power?

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RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#1
Oct 31, 2011
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I think there are ways that rituals can have power. If we say they are necessary for our salvation, we are not seeing the truth. They are powerless to save us. However, I think they have great power to help train us to live a life for our Lord.

I can choose to light a candle and say a prayer on the Sabbath or choose not to. Lighting the candle with my ritual prayer can be something meaningless that I do without involving the HS, so amount to nothing. I can pray without the candle and be devout. I can choose to use the candle lighting ritual to lead me in my devotions that are done in spirit and in truth.

Christ used training about fasting and prayer as an example, telling us how it was to be done. Paul scolded for using rituals for salvation, or for relying on them rather than worship in spirit and truth. But God used rituals to train people, because what we do physically is always symbolic of our spiritual health.

I think rituals can be a great training tool for our spiritual growth. What do you think?
 
tribesman

tribesman

Senior Member
#2
Oct 13, 2011
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#2
RedTent said:
...I think rituals can be a great training tool for our spiritual growth. What do you think?
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I think that baptism and communion are far more than "training tools" for our spiritual growth. Far more.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#3
Aug 28, 2012
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Idk.... I have never heard those things being called rituals before. The word ritual kind of gives me a bad feeling because if you say I did a special ritual yesterday people automaticly assume something bad. Plus Rituals often times need blood sacrifice, now turning off the lights and prayin, fasting, comuniion and baptism Don't seem to fit the word ritual to me. More like actions of faith.
 
RedTent

RedTent

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#4
Oct 31, 2011
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=tribesman; I think that baptism and communion are far more than "training tools" for our spiritual growth. Far more.
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Agreed.

So we need to define rituals. I am thinking of things we can choose to do in our worship that we personally find a help but God does not require it of us. For instance, I use not eating pork or shrimp a reminder to me of what God says about being clean in thought, word, and deed.
 
Blain

Blain

The Word Weaver
#5
Aug 28, 2012
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RedTent said:
Agreed.

So we need to define rituals. I am thinking of things we can choose to do in our worship that we personally find a help but God does not require it of us. For instance, I use not eating pork or shrimp a reminder to me of what God says about being clean in thought, word, and deed.
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Oh I see what you mean now, Yes sometimes When i make a serious prayer of devotion to Jesus I kneel down on one knee and envision him infront of me as I pray to him. other times when I just need to spend personal time with him i go on a walk or lay down in the dark with him. that last one may be strange but i felt and even seen his presence doing that.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

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#6
Sep 8, 2012
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As long as you don't confuse the doing of them as being necessary for salvation.
I don't eat pork or shell fish because I hate the taste of pork, and shellfish are bottom feeders so therefore unhealthy.
But I don't reinstate the law.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#7
#7
RITUAL:

"An action taken in such a way whereby the manner of its execution is given as much or more importance and significance as the practical measure that it is intended to perform."

A thing becomes a ritual when "particularly and precisely how it is done" is considered to be equally as important (sometimes more important) than what is actually being accomplished or performed.

'ritual' is altogether different than 'routine', 'habit', or 'custom'...

:)

.
 
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K

kenisyes

Guest
#8
#8
Your faith has power. Some people put faith in rituals. That gives rituals power. That is a sin, as it amounts to worshiping the ritual instead of worshiping God. Some people only put faith in the ritual to remind them of something about God; that is okay and is the subject of Rom. 14.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#9
#9
Remember:

GRA said:
'ritual' is altogether different than 'routine', 'habit', or 'custom'...
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Modern day 'ritual' has satanic power, and serves only to drive man away from God. In a very subtle way, it draws the attention of the mind and the heart away from the true importance and significance of a thing onto the "meaningless operation of the mechanics of the performance" of the thing.

We know this by virtue of having a more full understanding of what the Bible says about the following:

~ "But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:37)

~ "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24)

God wants us to worship Him with the "straight-forward honest simplicity" of 'in spirit and in truth' - not the "hidden mystical complexity" of 'ritual'.

:)

.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

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#10
Aug 15, 2009
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I agree with the last two guys. The ritual relating to the worship or prayer, etc. can become more important than the item itself. When it does, is a sin.
Note also that your prayer, worship, etc., themselves can become a ritual, no longer the proper thing it once was.
I believe adding rituals to these only increases the chances of turning the things we do into a ritual.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#11
#11
I just now read your post, after submitting mine...

kenisyes said:
Your faith has power. Some people put faith in rituals. That gives rituals power. That is a sin, as it amounts to worshiping the ritual instead of worshiping God.
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Yes - I can certainly agree with these statements.

kenisyes said:
Some people only put faith in the ritual to remind them of something about God; that is okay and is the subject of Rom. 14.
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I have to disagree with this.

:)

.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#12
#12
Stephen63 said:
I agree with the last two guys. The ritual relating to the worship or prayer, etc. can become more important than the item itself. When it does, is a sin.
Note also that your prayer, worship, etc., themselves can become a ritual, no longer the proper thing it once was.
I believe adding rituals to these only increases the chances of turning the things we do into a ritual.
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I agree.

:)

.
 
zone

zone

Senior Member
#13
Jun 13, 2010
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#13
tribesman said:
I think that baptism and communion are far more than "training tools" for our spiritual growth. Far more.
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indeed brother. very much so:)
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#14
#14
GRA said:
I have to disagree with this.

:)

.
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I understand you to mean that do not agree it is okay to put faith in a ritual, that when you do it, it will remind you of God? Do you pray before you eat? Do you celebrate any holidays such as Christmas or Passover? Do you, when you are preaching, say a public prayer before, like "Lord guide my words...."? Do you put on your best clothes for Sunday church? None of these are commanded in the NT, but most Christians do them. They do them because these things remind them of God.

I did not say it is okay to put faith in a ritual to help bring you closer to God. Merely that it is okay to do some preprogrammed prayers or actions that remind you that God is present. The faith is used only in the sense "if I do this, it will help me and others to remember that the Lord is with us."
 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#15
Oct 31, 2011
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#15
These are such thoughtful replies with such good points. Kenisyes even pointed out that we can use rituals in a sinful way. Paul accuses me of being weak for using them:

Rom 14:2 One person believes he may eat anything, but one who is weak eats only vegetables.

Certainly, if I was a Christian who worshipped my Lord at all times in every way, I would never have any need of rituals.

That said, I think all of us fallible humans could benefit from rituals if it is personal between just ourselves and God as a means of communication. I use a mezuzah at my front door. It tells me that this home is dedicated to the Lord, I am to act accordingly. That little box is not what makes it so; I don’t have to have the box. But why not have the reminder? I share having that box with thousands and thousands of other humans who love the Lord and wants their home to reflect that. There are words printed in the box from the bible with my testimony in it. It sets me apart from people who do not have a home dedicated to the Lord.

Jews say I may not have it, it tells people I am Jewish when I am not. It is between me and the Lord, I know no Jewish people personally so they are offended, and so I keep my box.

I think all the actions we incorporate into our day to day living that bring our Lord closer are helpful, whether it is prayer before we eat, church once a week, or any other ritual. So many in today's church live a life that can hardly to looked at as at all different from the people around them who do not know their Savior. Rituals, done in a way that follows how God teaches us and not as, forinstance, part of the occult, or to be saved, etc. could help set us apart from those without God. There are scriptures warning of the pitfalls of using them wrong, but I find no scripture that says do not use them at all.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#16
#16
Remember:
GRA said:
'ritual' is altogether different than 'routine', 'habit', or 'custom'...
Click to expand...
Keeping this in mind...

kenisyes said:
Some people only put faith in the ritual to remind them of something about God; that is okay and is the subject of Rom. 14.
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~ I do not believe that it is ever a good thing to put faith in a ritual.
~ I do not believe that ritual(s) is the subject of Romans 14.

kenisyes said:
I understand you to mean that do not agree it is okay to put faith in a ritual, that when you do it, it will remind you of God? Do you pray before you eat? Do you celebrate any holidays such as Christmas or Passover? Do you, when you are preaching, say a public prayer before, like "Lord guide my words...."? Do you put on your best clothes for Sunday church? None of these are commanded in the NT, but most Christians do them. They do them because these things remind them of God.

I did not say it is okay to put faith in a ritual to help bring you closer to God. Merely that it is okay to do some preprogrammed prayers or actions that remind you that God is present. The faith is used only in the sense "if I do this, it will help me and others to remember that the Lord is with us."
Click to expand...
As a 'routine', 'habit', or 'custom' - I believe it is O.K. to do some of these things - but, if / when it turns into a ritual - there is a serious problem...

I believe in giving thanks to the Lord for the food that I eat - but, I do not believe in being ritualistic about it... (etc... Please see posts #10 and #12)

:)

.
 
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K

kenisyes

Guest
#17
#17
GRA said:
As a 'routine', 'habit', or 'custom' - I believe it is O.K. to do some of these things - but, if / when it turns into a ritual - there is a serious problem...

I believe in giving thanks to the Lord for the food that I eat - but, I do not believe in being ritualistic about it... (etc... Please see posts #10 and #12)

:)

.
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I was using the word in a more technical sense, as is used by anthropologists. As you use it, I agree completely.
 
G

Grandpa

Senior Member
#18
Jun 24, 2011
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#18
GRA said:
Remember:

Keeping this in mind...


~ I do not believe that it is ever a good thing to put faith in a ritual.
~ I do not believe that ritual(s) is the subject of Romans 14.


As a 'routine', 'habit', or 'custom' - I believe it is O.K. to do some of these things - but, if / when it turns into a ritual - there is a serious problem...

I believe in giving thanks to the Lord for the food that I eat - but, I do not believe in being ritualistic about it... (etc... Please see posts #10 and #12)

:)

.
Click to expand...
IF you pray to God every morning does that become your morning ritual?

There is no reason not to have faith in your prayers because they have become ritual.

Your ritual of reading the bible every day is useless if you don't have faith in it...

That is the main reason why God has precious saints in every denomination. Because some have faith that goes beyond the ritual and straight to God. You can't tell it just by looking. Only God Knows the Heart.
 
P

Powemm

Guest
#19
#19
Do rituals have power?
Rom*6:16*You "belong" to the power you choose to obey...

There is power in prayer
There is power in our confidence in God and what He can do
Thee is power in Christ and who He says we are..
It has absolutely nothing to do with anything we can do or practice ... He tells is that all of our attempts at this are like filthy rags ... Sort of like cleaning things up and what we think looks good .. God then takes the rag and says " you forgot This" Wich is now in my hand... it is never about making ourselves righteous or holy .. We will never be able to do that .. Only by the grace and mercy and acceptance of what god is doing "currently, right this very second" in us .. Are we anything at all....
good post .. Thank you for asking
 
WolfInOxHide

WolfInOxHide

Banned
#20
Jul 12, 2012
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#20
Just be careful not to bind anything to the ritual except the ambiance it gives you.
I used to light a menorah at closing time on friday night as if to "keep the sun from going down" until I could get the last customer out of the restaurant. But it was just my way of inwardly reminding myself that rest will be kept next, even already, by allowing the last customer to peacefully and casually finish eating, instead of hinting that they should hurry up and leave like many restaurants.
If you miss lighting the candle or whatever at your predefined "time" or activity, you risk falsely condemning yourself to failure, and worse, imaginatively accusing God of withholding some grace from you based on your own imaginary failure.

I am acquainted with one person who believes that sticking little objects in the ground pointing up, a stick, a pointy rock, etc., are necessary to "bind his words" between earth and heaven, when just speaking the word should be enough to accomplish it. He claims this same mechanic is what gives governments and churches power, when they make an obelisk or steeple. This I would say, has no effect as intended, is going too far and dangerous. Since God answers iniquity according to the multitude of idols, (the "be careful what you wish for" concept) there's no telling what this guy is actually doing to his life by sticking things in the ground to "make them happen". *shudder*

On a secular ritual note, I once had a wiccan girl tell me that she used the necronomicon to cast a love spell on me. Well, it didn't exactly work the way she intended lol. I ended up loving her as a sister and praying that she would give up on such nonsense.
 
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