Trinity?

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layman316 said:
You are all over the place. What is your point?

Rev 1:8"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

Who is the almightly?
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Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

'For the letter brings death, but the spirit brings life'.

This is my point: Jesus himself being risen up, even for all those sins he took.

God cannot look upon sin. so it is put away by Jesus, his son, whom he 'begot' that day.

They are separate 'people', Jesus and God.
 
layman316 said:
So God the Father is going to appear (come to earth) with Jesus the Son?

This is another reason why your interpretation of the verse can't work. God the Father does not appear with the Son. This would be considered heresy even to most cult groups like the Oneness Pentecostals.
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If Jesus walks on Earth, does not the father walk with him? BEcause he was righteous, is God not with him?

Does God not stand with the righteous?

He's not there personified, taking steps with his feet. But he's there with Jesus all the same.

Another instance of the 'I and my wife are one' idea.
 
Colours said:
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.

'For the letter brings death, but the spirit brings life'.

This is my point: Jesus himself being risen up, even for all those sins he took.

God cannot look upon sin. so it is put away by Jesus, his son, whom he 'begot' that day.

They are separate 'people', Jesus and God.
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John 3 isn't related to the topic. It has nothing to do with Jesus being the Alpha and the Omega, the Almighty."

I agree, God cannot look upon sin in the sense that He cannot accept it, thus, the reason He sent His Son. Again, the reason Jesus was incarnate. This is basic Christianity 101.

p.s. Jesus was not "begot."
 
Colours said:
If Jesus walks on Earth, does not the father walk with him? BEcause he was righteous, is God not with him?

Does God not stand with the righteous?

He's not there personified, taking steps with his feet. But he's there with Jesus all the same.

Another instance of the 'I and my wife are one' idea.
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You avoided the question. Does God the Father make a physical appearance with the Son?
 
layman316 said:
You avoided the question. Does God the Father make a physical appearance with the Son?
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Actually, you avoided the answer.

When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. 15 But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me ; your throne will be established forever.'"
 
Colours said:
Take it whatever way you like. I believe what I said, coupled with everything previous, allows it to speak for itself.
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I showed you the correct grammar. I posted an expert on Greek grammar, to which you reject. It is not me you disagree with, its the word of God.


 
A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the LORD ; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. 5 And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

God doesn't need to physically appear in person. However, God is shown through what is of His Kingdom.
 
layman316 said:
I showed you the correct grammar. I posted an expert on Greek grammar, to which you reject. It is not me you disagree with, its the word of God.


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Speaking of grammar.

I showed you the correct grammar. I posted an expert on Greek grammar, to which you reject. It is not me you disagree with, its the word of God.

Who is your 'god' in that sentence there?
 
Colours said:
Actually, you avoided the answer.

When your days are over and you rest with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, who will come from your own body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with the rod of men, with floggings inflicted by men. 15 But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me ; your throne will be established forever.'"
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Prophetic...what is your point? Are you not familiar messianic Scriptures?
 
After all limited dimensional arguments of the cerebral cortex about the infinite dimension of God and all His creation and heavens, cannot one humbly admit that it is way beyond the mind to comprehend whichever one believes? If you have not been there to witness God in heaven how can you be an expert? How can you say i see and know the precise absolute details and then can explain it, O I know about reading and knowledge but , if you have a strong belief from what you read then believe it until you are face to face with God then you may be corrected or you may rejoice, keep your faith in your belief or your experience in these great amazing ideas and concepts about God that you have and Love Him in them. Some of the most profound and simple children who have had an experience of leaving this earth and were returned revived testify to real persons and the great love they received from them one i will recommend is Colton Burpo Heaven is for Real and you are going to really like it. After all your limited knowledge of cogitate thought of the infinite heavens and God cannot supersede the infinite experience of being there. What importance is my belief in this matter to try to dictate or tell someone else? I would rather be silent and let them experience for their self because I know I am not capable of revealing to them God or His Son or His Holy Spirit, but I can lead them to Jesus so let Jesus reveal to them what He wants.
 
Colours said:
Speaking of grammar.

I showed you the correct grammar. I posted an expert on Greek grammar, to which you reject. It is not me you disagree with, its the word of God.

Who is your 'god' in that sentence there?
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Do you know what "the word of God" means?

You do realize that when you read "Lord" when related to Jesus in the NT, it is equal with the word "God. It wouldn't suprise me if you didn't know this.


Rom 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


The Jews of Jesus' day understood this, and wanted to stone Him for it.


Joh 10:30 I and My Father are one."
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."
 
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AgapeSpiritEyes said:
After all limited dimensional arguments of the cerebral cortex about the infinite dimension of God and all His creation and heavens, cannot one humbly admit that it is way beyond the mind to comprehend whichever one believes? If you have not been there to witness God in heaven how can you be an expert? How can you say i see and know the precise absolute details and then can explain it, O I know about reading and knowledge but , if you have a strong belief from what you read then believe it until you are face to face with God then you may be corrected or you may rejoice, keep your faith in your belief or your experience in these great amazing ideas and concepts about God that you have and Love Him in them. Some of the most profound and simple children who have had an experience of leaving this earth and were returned revived testify to real persons and the great love they received from them one i will recommend is Colton Burpo Heaven is for Real and you are going to really like it. After all your limited knowledge of cogitate thought of the infinite heavens and God cannot supersede the infinite experience of being there. What importance is my belief in this matter to try to dictate or tell someone else? I would rather be silent and let them experience for their self because I know I am not capable of revealing to them God or His Son or His Holy Spirit, but I can lead them to Jesus so let Jesus reveal to them what He wants.
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I consider myself humbled.

If meat is cured too long it becomes too salty to eat, so to speak.
 
AgapeSpiritEyes said:
After all limited dimensional arguments of the cerebral cortex about the infinite dimension of God and all His creation and heavens, cannot one humbly admit that it is way beyond the mind to comprehend whichever one believes? If you have not been there to witness God in heaven how can you be an expert? How can you say i see and know the precise absolute details and then can explain it, O I know about reading and knowledge but , if you have a strong belief from what you read then believe it until you are face to face with God then you may be corrected or you may rejoice, keep your faith in your belief or your experience in these great amazing ideas and concepts about God that you have and Love Him in them. Some of the most profound and simple children who have had an experience of leaving this earth and were returned revived testify to real persons and the great love they received from them one i will recommend is Colton Burpo Heaven is for Real and you are going to really like it. After all your limited knowledge of cogitate thought of the infinite heavens and God cannot supersede the infinite experience of being there. What importance is my belief in this matter to try to dictate or tell someone else? I would rather be silent and let them experience for their self because I know I am not capable of revealing to them God or His Son or His Holy Spirit, but I can lead them to Jesus so let Jesus reveal to them what He wants.
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Then be silent. lol

Perhaps you are not aware that these forum are tone-neutral. Also, there is nothing wrong with discussing the issues.
 
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layman316 said:
Do you know what "the word of God" means?

You do realize that when you read "Lord" when related to Jesus in the NT, it is equal with the word "God. It wouldn't suprise me if you didn't know this.


Rom 1:7 To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


The Jews of Jesus' day understood this, and wanted to stone Him for it.


Joh 10:30 I and My Father are one."
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."
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Let's agree to disagree.

I believe this action of stoning was down to the pharisees mis-understanding. Not result of Jesus' statement. They are responsible for their own thought process and reaction, as Jesus is responsible for his own intent in what he says.

'I have done many good works. Do I not wish for what God wants? To help others? Why would you stone me for doing what God asks?' ....
 
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Colours said:
Let's agree to disagree.
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We could do that, but that means you would have disagree with the context of the verse.

Joh 10:30I and My Father are one."
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."

Joh 10:36do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?


You see the distinct between the Father and Jesus as I do. The Jews saw it as well, but they also understood that Jesus (the Son) was making Himself equal with God (the Father). Please notice that Jesus didn't say, "hold on. I am not God." A lot of people don't realize that the term "Son of God" is a term used in relations to the Father, and speaks of His deity, not His humanity. There is nothing in the verse that would lead us to believe that the Pharisees misunderstood Jesus. Only those who suggest this reject the plain reading of the text.
 
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Perhaps I worded that wrong. 'They should assume responsibility for their own thought process, as Jesus assumes responsibility for the intent in what he says'.
 
Colours said:
Perhaps I worded that wrong. 'They should assume responsibility for their own thought process, as Jesus assumes responsibility for the intent in what he says'.
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Jesus' reply to them does not lead us to beleive they misunderstood Jesus. They fully understood Him, which is why they wanted to stone Him.
 
layman316 said:
We could do that, but that means you would have disagree with the context of the verse.

Joh 10:30I and My Father are one."
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, "Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?"
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God."

Joh 10:36do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?


You see the distinct between the Father and Jesus as I do. The Jews saw it as well, but they also understood that Jesus (the Son) was making Himself equal with God (the Father). Please notice that Jesus didn't say, "hold on. I am not God." A lot of people don't realize that the term "Son of God" is a term used in relations to the Father, and speaks of His deity, not His humanity. There is nothing in the verse that would lead us to believe that the Pharisees misunderstood Jesus. Only those who suggest this reject the plain reading of the text.
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'Only one is good'. - Jesus Christ.

I have to go. Thanks for the discussion, and if I don't see you again on here, I'll see you in heaven :)
 
Colours said:
'Only one is good'.

I have to go. Thanks for the discussion, and if I don't see you again on here, I'll see you in heaven :)
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1Jn 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
1Jn 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

The testimony of God (the Father) is that eternal life is in the Son. For us to have eternal life in Jesus, we have to believe Jesus is God. If your doctrinal views fall outside this truth, you cannot have eternal life because you reject the testimony of God. This is based on the Scirptures, not my personal views.

Thanks for your time...layman316
 
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