Geocentrism

[zone]

I have to confess, I reviewed the parameters for missile guidance and fire control thinking about this post. I got afraid that Kenisyes might be tempted to do a Fourier Analysis on the energy in the universe. One could certainly get off on tangents in such a discussion

hahaha DA
you are funny.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

James 1:17 says: “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above,
and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.”

I'd like to hear kenisyes commentary on the Greek words for 'trope' and 'parallax' in this verse ... of course these are old testament references as well ...

But again, all James is saying is, God does not change, all this timing is now fixed in Christ, Jesus - the bright morning star

OOPS, How'd that get there ...

 

[kenisyes]

very cool....

"But, Greek is not God's language like Hebrew is"????

Ken?
are you sure this what you mean to say?

"They are set in the firmament" < exacty! so if the firmament is what we call ether, why can't the ether with everything in it revolves around the earth?

summary of your opinion so far?

is it that so far you see that scripture doesn't prove Helio?
that would be a good start.

but i don't want to draw conclusions about your conclusions....this is unsettling though: "But, Greek is not God's language like Hebrew is"

love you Ken.
back shortly.

God called the Hebrews through Abraham in about 2000 BC, some say 1700BC. From that time on, He was always around someplace. Certainly, from Sinai on, He was always active in their history. Languages have a half-life of just under 500 years. That means God had plenty of time to lead them into adapting their language and culture under His direction. I have noticed that Hebrew grammar and etymology speaks to my heart the same way God seems to. I believe that Go'ds presence caused them to change their language. That's why I call Hebrew God's language. [It just occurred to me you might be thinking I meant "languages of angels and men - sorry.]

I believe that helio vs. terra is a matter of perception. Both are correct; neither are correct. I believe it is easier to understand Scripture in terracentric thinking, but even better would be to study out the various references I gave you, and get terracentric "fine-tuned" to the culture and time being used.

I believe that you have provided no Scripture yet that proves, in the original language, that the sun goes around the earth. I do not mean to say it's not true, or that it is not consistent with Scripture. I only mean that, based on the Scriptures you've provided so far, I cannot be certain, as they all have another interpretation possible.

I'm not certain the firmament is what we call ether. Note, God creates the firmament and calls it heaven. Then He commands birds to fly in the firmament of heaven. He has already done the same with the lights. One possible interpretation is that the firmament has a firmament. Heaven is a plural noun in Hebrew.

 

[kenisyes]

okay....i've delved some into the Jewish philosophers.
and they are what actually refute what God said.
they in reality ended up teaching reincarnation.

"6 million jews [souls who supposedly were at Sinai] make up "all israel" < kabbalah/zohar. time will be complete when all those souls have been reincarnated enough times. or summink?

more on that later.

what about Islam? the Arabs were pretty good astronomers and they gave us math (or zero anyways).
what about their understanding?

the Helio thing called science is NEW....Enlightenment stuff - and we know what other junk we got from that.
it's really Mystery Religion in a white NASA coat.

NASA is a Freemasonic/Theosophist cult.

more on that later too.

we didn't go to the moon....if they're willing to stage that hoax, what else are they lying about?

If you go back in Talmud, they always say which rabbi said what. If you start categorizing by century, you discover wisdom in Israel through Jesus' time, then gradual decline in wisdom from then on. That's why I mentioned a footnoted Ginzberg is available, so you can do that if you like.

Kabbalah is Jewsish philosophy, just like Enochian magick is Chrstianity (and there are those who believe it is). There's some history there, but most of it is Jewish witchcraft. Zohar's only a little better, as it is earlier, and the witchcraft applications are not full-blown.

Astronomers have been with us since ancient times. Most of them couldn't even get the calendar right, let alone the heavenly bodies. But then, it was astrologers who visited baby Jesus.

I agree with you as to who not to listen to, except I would not go so far as to say that NASA IS a freemason/theosophist cult, just that they are heavily influenced by non-Christian thinking.

 

[kenisyes]

One such 'henge' was Stonehenge in England.

I have to confess, I reviewed the parameters for missile guidance and fire control thinking about this post. I got afraid that Kenisyes might be tempted to do a Fourier Analysis on the energy in the universe. One could certainly get off on tangents in such a discussion ...

Do you suppose "gilgal" is the Hebrew word for "henge"?

That's a lot of coefficients. One for each planet? Angel? Person? Maybe only the saved people are in tune? Naw, let's not hijack the thread.

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

hahaha DA
you are funny.

 

[kenisyes]

James 1:17 says: “Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above,
and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.”

I'd like to hear kenisyes commentary on the Greek words for 'trope' and 'parallax' in this verse ... of course these are old testament references as well ...

But again, all James is saying is, God does not change, all this timing is now fixed in Christ, Jesus - the bright morning star

As a conclusion, I could not do any better than what you have stated. The first word is parallage, meaning "change". It gives rise to our geometric term parallax, with a more specialized meaning. Trope is turning. God does not change or turn. That does not prove His universe does not. Eccl. 1 is pretty certain that many things do. But then again, His creation is not perfect. especially in view of our sin in how we "have dominion and subdue it".

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

okay....i've delved some into the Jewish philosophers.
and they are what actually refute what God said.
they in reality ended up teaching reincarnation.

"6 million jews [souls who supposedly were at Sinai] make up "all israel" < kabbalah/zohar. time will be complete when all those souls have been reincarnated enough times. or summink?

more on that later.

what about Islam? the Arabs were pretty good astronomers and they gave us math (or zero anyways).
what about their understanding?

the Helio thing called science is NEW....Enlightenment stuff - and we know what other junk we got from that.
it's really Mystery Religion in a white NASA coat.

NASA is a Freemasonic/Theosophist cult.

more on that later too.

we didn't go to the moon....if they're willing to stage that hoax, what else are they lying about?

All of this reveals the dangers of being 'half-right'. The Gnosis may be right for the pyramid worshipers, in a material and physical sense, but often, even that is spun in order to cover their fallen status in the bio-psycho-social realms. Spin doctors tell us all sorts of things in order to get us to worship the newest iron chariot, widget or gadget. While the car or cell phone might work well and be ergonomically sound, the social psychology it perpetuates is just no good. Likewise we are sold all sorts of junk foods and told to biggie size it, while the gnostic / physical 'gods' (fallen angels) again go to work to create magic of their god - Chemos, Chemistry (e.g. Big Pharma) their symbol being the twisted brazen serpent(s). Same concept applies in education, science, law, medicine, religion, government and etc, etc.

This empowers them in the material and financial worlds, and gives them a 'star' status - self proclaimed, in the media world, hey, even in the religious world ... tis why they are called 'Fallen Angels' ... some are swept into the occult, others lead by desire -- pray for them all -- but no need to kick against the pricks ... instead warn the ignorant and the unlearned to enlightenment, calling some out ... a little light in a dark place is seen from afar. They are only empowered when they are worshiped and given attention and alms (when we buy their stuff, ideological or material) ...

We are living in a material world and some are material girls (and boys) ...

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

In terms of General Relativity, geocentrism is just as correct as heliocentrism, as the position and motion of bodies in space is relative. There is no reason in physics not to consider the Earth as being motionless while the heavens whirl and whip about us. This is not done because it would be very difficult to model, mathematically and graphically, and would give the same reasults as heliocentrism, which is much easier due to the massive gravity well of the sun.

 

[kenisyes]

In terms of General Relativity, geocentrism is just as correct as heliocentrism, as the position and motion of bodies in space is relative. There is no reason in physics not to consider the Earth as being motionless while the heavens whirl and whip about us. This is not done because it would be very difficult to model, mathematically and graphically, and would give the same reasults as heliocentrism, which is much easier due to the massive gravity well of the sun.

This is what I was taught in school also. Have a look at the What is the Antikythera Mechanism? and The Astrolabe and see what you think. Done algebraically, your statement is correct. Done geometrically, the other math is simpler.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

This is what I was taught in school also. Have a look at the What is the Antikythera Mechanism? and The Astrolabe and see what you think. Done algebraically, your statement is correct. Done geometrically, the other math is simpler.

I have an astrolabe, sir. I love analog computers. We have a WW2 bombsight, too! Very nifty.
However, analog computers are extraordinarily limited, they literally only do one or two things. Physics is done in formal mathematics because of the almost infinite versatility.

 

[zone]

I have to confess, I reviewed the parameters for missile guidance and fire control thinking about this post. I got afraid that Kenisyes might be tempted to do a Fourier Analysis on the energy in the universe. One could certainly get off on tangents in such a discussion

&#8220;....there is visible evidence in the raw data for an apparent concentric shell structure centered on the observer.&#8221;----&#8220;Galaxy redshift abundance periodicity from Fourier analysis of number counts N(z) using SDSS and 2dFGRS galaxy surveys&#8221;
J.G. Hartnett K. Hirano Sep 2008


DA....i was hoping to establish/see if it is possible to establish lines between Metaphysics/Religious Philosophy and Theoretical "Science" as opposed to or aligned with Observable Science > and seeing how they match God's accounts in scripture.

not saying the other stuff [error AND deception] isn't part of the debate, since it clearly is.

like....serious?

Freemasons have always been in the forefront of the scientific community; from the founding of the British Royal Society to today&#8217;s NASA programme in the United States.
The following is a short and incomplete list 1 of Brethren who have contributed to the exploration of outer space.

Freemasons in Space < click

oh....THOSE guys again....

 

[JGPS]

In terms of General Relativity, geocentrism is just as correct as heliocentrism, as the position and motion of bodies in space is relative. There is no reason in physics not to consider the Earth as being motionless while the heavens whirl and whip about us. This is not done because it would be very difficult to model, mathematically and graphically, and would give the same reasults as heliocentrism, which is much easier due to the massive gravity well of the sun.

I'm surprised this didn't come up till the 49th post.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

I'm surprised this didn't come up till the 49th post.

I'm surprised how many 'skeptics' and people who claim to like science in the atheist community are totally unaware of this basic implication of relativity. "See, the Bible believes in geocentrism, it's WRONG!', without ever considering that Einstein said you can consider anywhere you want the center of the Universe.

 

[JGPS]

I know, you're talking about one of the most frustrating things to me.

Apologetic would be so much easier if more people actually understood modern science, rather than going with the scientific dogmas they regurgitate against Creation...

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

I know, you're talking about one of the most frustrating things to me.

Apologetic would be so much easier if more people actually understood modern science, rather than going with the scientific dogmas they regurgitate against Creation...

The sad fact is that most people join groups to be in a tribe and feel superior to others. They really don't care about critical thinking or science, they just want to be part of the 'smart, liberal, modern' crowd, and adopt the prevailing beliefs as to what that is. I am sure the Catholic Church had the same problem when they were the intellectual elite.

 

[JGPS]

I totally agree. With the Catholic part too.

They want to be like those 'smart modern liberals' on TV I wish I was joking, but many people take actors in shows as models for what is in and what is right.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

I totally agree. With the Catholic part too.

They want to be like those 'smart modern liberals' on TV I wish I was joking, but many people take actors in shows as models for what is in and what is right.

That's why people without critical habits should not watch television, watching a human leads to a false impression of realism and influences them psychologically even when they don't know it. Not having strong principles or critical faculties they can be lulled into all manner of nonsense. Again, sadly, these are the people who watch the most TV.

 

[JGPS]

Suspension of disbelief is a powerful negative phenomena that all kinds of acting and television media use.

And of course, in a way the Medium is the Message. Marshall Mcluhan had good points.

 

[progressivenerdgirl]

Suspension of disbelief is a powerful negative phenomena that all kinds of acting and television media use.

And of course, in a way the Medium is the Message. Marshall Mcluhan had good points.

I actually reject the whole notion of a 'suspension of disbelief' in entertainment. Even aside from the issue of bad influence through deliberately failed criticality the call for 'suspension of disbelief' is usually just an excuse for lazy writing.