God or Guns?

[sabaqtani7]

All throughout the bible. Blessed are victims.

Revenge takers have their reward. But to be strong in affliction and oppression, that is what yields true glory.

To be the victim is much more. It is easy to strike back. It is hard to sacrifice and forgive.

 

[PS]

Whew! I thought you were unreasonable. But it's not that at all. You just don't know your vocabulary.

Murder: The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse.

Now, since the Ten Commandments were initiated before the Israelites conquered Palestine, and they were told to conquer it, one, at least a reaonable person, would have to assume that there ARE LAWFUL reasons for killing, which WOULD NOT constitute murder.

Don't assume anything Dave. The Israelites worshipped false gods who they called Lord. Look at the Golden Calf for an example. They were worshipping their LORD while Moses was getting the Ten Commandments from our LORD.

There are two G/gods here

 

[sabaqtani7]

Whew! I thought you were unreasonable. But it's not that at all. You just don't know your vocabulary.

Murder: The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse.

Now, since the Ten Commandments were initiated before the Israelites conquered Palestine, and they were told to conquer it, one, at least a reasonable person, would have to assume that there ARE LAWFUL reasons for killing, which WOULD NOT constitute murder.

I dont know my english vocab. What's that got to do with anything?

Thou shalt not kill.

Did Jesus kill anyone?

Who do you follow? What are his commands?

 

[superdave5221]

Then obviously with your pro-gun stance you are going to need to twist these scriptures. Would you like to give us all a lesson in how to do it please.

Exodus 20:13: Thou shalt not kill.

Deuteronomy 5:17: Thou shalt not kill.

Matthew 5:21: Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment.

Romans 13:9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Not at all. A reasonable person, who knows the bible, and considers context, knows that since stoning of adulters was prescribed under the Law, that LAWFUL killing is not covered under these commandments.

A person would have to twist the meaning to allow for capital punishment under the Law, and the Israelites commandments to kill the Palestinians when conquering their land, and still say that killing is unlawful under All conditions.

 

[superdave5221]

I dont know my english vocab. What's that got to do with anything?

Thou shalt not kill.

Did Jesus kill anyone?

Who do you follow? What are his commands?

The point is that your heart is so hardened that you cannot discern the difference between murder, which is unlawful, and killing which is lawful as prescribed under the law.

 

[PS]

Not at all. A reasonable person, who knows the bible, and considers context, knows that since stoning of adulters was prescribed under the Law, that LAWFUL killing is not covered under these commandments.

A person would have to twist the meaning to allow for capital punishment under the Law, and the Israelites commandments to kill the Palestinians when conquering their land.

The stoning of adulterers was Jewish secular law and if you remember Jesus prevented it. Please try to understand scripture Dave and least of all don't do what you accuse others of doing.

 

[sabaqtani7]

If someone hits you, its a trespass. If someone comes in your home, its a trespass. Does Jesus not say forgive trespasses?

Does Jesus not say to his disciples people will try to hurt and kill them? And that they endure and keep forgiving and spreading the word of God?

Does Jesus not say, if someone wants to take something, let them?

Let the sinners sin?

If I partake in killing, to stop a killing, Im sure god will understand. In fact, I'm certain He will. But it doesn't make it the right thing to do by Jesus' commands

I'm sure God could say 'you tried to protect your family', but also could say 'but vengeance was meant to be mine.'

 

[PS]

The point is that your heart is so hardened that you cannot discern the difference between murder, which is unlawful, and killing which is lawful as prescribed under the law.

It needs a hard heart to even consider the death of another.

 

[sabaqtani7]

The point is that your heart is so hardened that you cannot discern the difference between murder, which is unlawful, and killing which is lawful as prescribed under the law.

Hardened? Because I think that killing for any reason is wrong and I'd rather be the victim?

Wow.

 

[Ariel82]

too many people have the matyr mental disorder. Jesus didn't tell people to become victims or to allow the sheep to be blindly lead to the slaughter. He protected His sheep from wolves.

 

[sabaqtani7]

too many people have the matyr mental disorder. Jesus didn't tell people to become victims or to allow the sheep to be blindly lead to the slaughter. He protected His sheep from wolves.

Jesus was a martyr .. so were most of his disciples. Because they turned the other cheek and didnt buy swords to kill those who struck them.

 

[PS]

too many people have the matyr mental disorder. Jesus didn't tell people to become victims or to allow the sheep to be blindly lead to the slaughter. He protected His sheep from wolves.

And you don't trust Him to do the same?

 

[superdave5221]

The stoning of adulterers was Jewish secular law and if you remember Jesus prevented it. Please try to understand scripture Dave and least of all don't do what you accuse others of doing.

Leviticus 20: 1 The LORD said to Moses,

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wifehttp://www.biblestudytools.com/leviticus/20.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Was God advocating murder?

 

[PS]

Leviticus 20:1 The LORD said to Moses,

10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.

Was God advocating murder?

Dave: This was Jewish secular law. It was written by the priests who were the law-makers.

487 Save someone being pursued even by taking the life of the pursuer — Deut. 25:12

488 Not to pity the pursuer — Num. 35:12

545 The courts must carry out the death penalty of stoning — Deut. 22:24

546 The courts must carry out the death penalty of burning — Lev. 20:14

547 The courts must carry out the death penalty of the sword — Ex. 21:20

548 The courts must carry out the death penalty of strangulation — Lev. 20:10

549 The courts must hang those stoned for blasphemy or idolatry — Deut. 21:22

550 Bury the executed on the day they are killed — Deut. 21:23

555 The court must not kill anybody on circumstantial evidence — Ex. 23:7

51 Not to bow down before a smooth stone — Lev. 26:1 (Idolotry)

189 Not to benefit from an ox condemned to be stoned — Ex. 21:2 (Cruelty)

008 Not to destroy objects associated with His Name — Deut. 12:4 (Idolotry)

596 Destroy the seven Canaanite nations — Deut. 20:17

597 Not to let any of them remain alive — Deut. 20:16

598 Wipe out the descendants of Amalek — Deut. 25:19

599 Remember what Amalek did to the Jewish people — Deut. 25:17

600 Not to forget Amalek's atrocities and ambush on our journey from Egypt in the desert — Deut. 25:19

603 Not to offer peace to Ammon and Moab while besieging them — Deut. 23:7


613 commandments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[superdave5221]

Dave: This was Jewish secular law. It was written by the priests who were the law-makers.

The priests made this law? This shows the death of your hardness. You did not read the first verse, The Lord said to Moses?

 

[sabaqtani7]

I tend to find that a lot of the mentality comes from society's pressure on a man to 'be a man', in the wrong sense. It isn't about having a bigger stick than the other guy. It's about having the stones not to use it.

God is my shepherd. I shall not want.

My mother used to say that 'it takes a strong man to win a fight. But it takes a stronger one to avoid it altogether'.

And she was right.

 

[Ariel82]

And you don't trust Him to do the same?

yep, sometimes HE does it by teaching me how to shoot straight.

I don't expect God to supernaturally do things when He can move in an manner that does not go against the laws of nature He has put forth.

You see WE are not JESUS. He does NOT tell people to be victims. abused people aren't told to just take it and not seek help. some people will twist scripture to tell the oppressed to stay oppressed and just take the abuse. However Jesus tells us about Freedom and justice.

He expects us to protect those He has placed in our trust with the means He has given to us. If the result is that we ourselves die by those means then that is a sacrifice some of us are willing to make to ensure the happiness of those we love.

 

[Ariel82]

I tend to find that a lot of the mentality comes from society's pressure on a man to 'be a man', in the wrong sense. It isn't about having a bigger stick than the other guy. It's about having the stones not to use it.

God is my shepherd. I shall not want.

My mother used to say that 'it takes a strong man to win a fight. But it takes a stronger one to avoid it altogether'.

And she was right.

avoid the fight if you can,

but don't run away if you find a child in need of defense.

 

[superdave5221]

I tend to find that a lot of the mentality comes from society's pressure on a man to 'be a man', in the wrong sense. It isn't about having a bigger stick than the other guy. It's about having the stones not to use it.

God is my shepherd. I shall not want.

My mother used to say that 'it takes a strong man to win a fight. But it takes a stronger one to avoid it altogether'.

And she was right.

You're right. Society has tended to make being a man whatever it takes to win the adoration of the world, which usually tends towards great sin.

But being a man and protecting his family goes way back into history, even to the days of Noah and Abraham.

Some laws are universally written on the hearts of man, (see Paul's address to the Areopagus in Athens in Acts 17). One of those laws that you find even in pagan societies is that a man protect his family from harm. To not do so is pretty much always seen as shameful and cowardly in all societies.

 

[PS]

The priests made this law? This shows the death of your hardness. You did not read the first verse, The Lord said to Moses?

Moses was from the tribe of Levi the same as the priests and it has become known as the Mosaic Law. This was the problem Jesus had with the Pharisees who who followed man-made law and not Divine law. You need to remember as well, the same as in England that they had their 'Lords' like us but they are not God.

Something else people forget as well is that Judaism is not Christianity.