Paul did NOT die to the law!

[iog]

Well you must believe it, from what you have previously said. If the people at that meeting failed to inform the Gentile converts as to the Jewish laws they needed to follow, they must havbe been responsible, in your eyes for them living a life of sin. I am only going by yourv previous statements of what you believe

I put what Paul said he taught
Paul taught the Gentiles

Why do you want to ignore what Paul said he taught

He taught the Gentiles Moses and the prophets

I'm not gonna let you ignore what is written

And I told you what I believe
You are in error!

 

[iog]

And I told you about your church Fathers

The RCC
The Orthodox
The Protestants

It seems the you have no answer to my post but you try to speak your mind through my mouth

Listen you are wrong in your understanding

Plain and simple!

 

[iog]

Tell you what you go back ad look over the verses I put and I will come back a little later and see if you answered on post with bible verses instead if telling me what I think

Again I'm telling you that you are wrong!!!!!

This is what I think!

Lets start there

You are wrong!

 

[tribesman]

...You are in error!

...Listen you are wrong in your understanding...

...You are wrong!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Put the verses to back up your statement because I see some error in your understanding

I read all the bible

The law and the testimony

I read all the bible from Genesis to Malachi

Paul taught the Gentiles the scriptures which is from Genesis to Malachi

A lot of people don't know this

There was no NT written when the apostles walked the earth

So common sense lets us know that they read the OT!

Do you understand this?

Do you understand?

The law should lead us to Christ
the prophets would show when christ came, What he would do when he came, and how he would came,
He did the same things Jesus did? Do you think he came to fulfill to the law just to put us back under tha law?

 

[iog]

Do you understand?

The law should lead us to Christ
the prophets would show when christ came, What he would do when he came, and how he would came,
He did the same things Jesus did? Do you think he came to fulfill to the law just to put us back under tha law?

What law?

There are many laws?

Which one?

 

[iog]

Lets see
We have the law of
Animal sacrifice
Circumcision
Sabbath
feast days
Commandments
Dietary laws

Wow so many laws

Si Which law are you taking about?

 

[iog]

Can you at least put the word of God?

Its not hard all you have to do is read God' word look at the subject and put something closely related to the topic
Your little thinga only lets me know that you don't have a answer!

Remember what Paul says here

1 Corinthians 14:38 (KJV)
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Ohh

 

[tribesman]

Can you at least put the word of God?

Its not hard all you have to do is read God' word look at the subject and put something closely related to the topic
Your little thinga only lets me know that you don't have a answer!

Well...the answer is plain and simple, and it has already been given you by other users here, but you won't still get it: God gave but one law.

 

[iog]

Well...the answer is plain and simple, and it has already been given you by other users here, but you won't still get it: God gave but one law.

What law is that ?

Why shouldn't take your word for it?

Prove it?

Lets see if you understand this

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Prove it!

 

[zone]

It's very clear that these Gentiles had major problems as the Israelites decided not to hit them with all the law

oh brother
poor gentiles couldn't handle all the Law like the jews i guess, eh?


Romans 3:1
What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision?

Romans 3:9
What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.

 

[mysherrie]

May I add what I found to be Truth to go with what you've said? Jesus said, "I came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it". This means we are to obey them and when we fail, we have an Advocate with the Father and are forgiven. The greatest Commandment however is to "Love the Lord, your God with all your heart and with all your mind and all your soul". Jesus said that and He also said, "That is the first and greatest Commandment". And He also said to " Love your neighbor as yourself". If you do these 2, there shouldn't be any problem with any others.

 

[tribesman]

What law is that ?

Why shouldn't take your word for it?

Prove it?

Lets see if you understand this

1 Thessalonians 5:21 (KJV)
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

Prove it!

Why question the very obvious and elementary? I think the burden of proof is upon those who think there are more than one law of God.

Jesus referred time and again to the law and the prophets (see for example Matt.7:12,22.40, Luke 16:16,29-31). The law being contained in the five books of Moses.

Nuff said.

 

[PS]

I knew you did not know lets complete the verse you quoted above

Here is the righteousness The Lord gave to man to do

Deuteronomy 6:1,24-25 (KJV)
Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the Lord your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: [24] And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.

The commandments given by God is the righteousness man must do before The Lord

That's wrong. See Psalm 82 for who god was.

 

[loveme1]

Matthew 5

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Luke 24

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:

53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Hebrews 10

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. 2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. 3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me) to do thy will, O God.

8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 21And having an high priest over the house of God; 22Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) 24And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; 33Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. 34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. 35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Revelation 14

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

8And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Why question the very obvious and elementary? I think the burden of proof is upon those who think there are more than one law of God.

Let's read a few definitions;


Transgress - To break a law, to violate, to commit a sin, to disobey.

Add - To make an addition to, to join, to increase in quantity.

Change - To pass from one state to another, to make different, to modify.


Now let's read some scriptures;

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Gal.3
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Heb.7
[12] For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


We know from reading the above scriptures what a transgression is to God. It is that act of breaking one of His laws. 1 John 3. And the same holds true when we read the definition.

We also know the definition of the words 'add', and 'change'.

So when we read in Gal.3:19 that a law was 'added' we know this to mean that a law, some law, (was joined to), or that there was an (increase in quantity) to laws that already existed. And this law that was 'added' was done so because of transgressions, which is the breaking of God's laws. So we have a law that was ADDED because of the breaking of laws!

And finally we read in Heb.7:12 that there was a law of God that HAD to be changed. And God tells us the reason that this law had to be changed was because of the priesthood. So....was God speaking about ALL of His laws being changed or modified, as says the definition? Or was Paul referring to a specific law?


So.....if God ONLY has one law...and if Paul ONLY speaks of this one law of God throughout his writings, which law is he speaking of above when he says a law was 'added' because of transgressions? And which law was it that needed to be changed because of the priesthood?

Let's reason for a moment.....

Was God's law of 'Do not kill', added because of transgressions. Or was it changed because of the priesthood?

Was God's law of 'Do not have respect of persons', added because of transgressions. Or was it changed because of the priesthood?

Was God's law of 'Love thy neighbor as thyself, added because of transgressions. Or was it changed because of the priesthood?

Was God's law of 'Do not covet', added because of transgressions. Or was it changed because of the priesthood?


Just which law of God was added because of transgressions, or was changed because of the priesthood?


It would seem the burden of proof would be to find this all encompassing 'ONE LAW' of God so many talk about!



.

 

[loveme1]

After reading that some reject the writings of Paul i consider this:

Saul was His name the same name has King Saul of the Old testament of the Tribe of Benjamin.

Saul of the New Testament was from the same Tribe Benjamin.


1 Samuel 10

12And one of the same place answered and said, But who is their father? Therefore it became a proverb, Is Saul also among the prophets? 13And when he had made an end of prophesying, he came to the high place.

It is no surprise that today we have this issue.

Some will say No he did not say not to Keep the Commandments.

Others will use His writings to reject the word of the Messiah.

i have seen it done many times.

Peter gives us a warning.

I witnessed one say that Paul regarded the Commandments "dung"......

No, he did not and if this is what you have found within you then you are in error using scripture to your own destruction.

If you adhere to the writings of Paul and have not made the Messiah's words your foundation then you will have a very different view of His writings indeed.


Samuel spoke this to Saul:

1 Samuel 15

And Saul said unto Samuel, Yea, I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and have gone the way which the LORD sent me, and have brought Agag the king of Amalek, and have utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 21But the people took of the spoil, sheep and oxen, the chief of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice unto the LORD thy God in Gilgal.

22And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

23For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

24And Saul said unto Samuel, I have sinned: for I have transgressed the commandment of the LORD, and thy words: because I feared the people, and obeyed their voice. 25Now therefore, I pray thee, pardon my sin, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD. 26And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel. 27And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it rent. 28And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day, and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou. 29And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent. 30Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD thy God. 31So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the LORD.

A good message indeed.

 

[mark54]

I have always found that Jewish Christians seem to have a hard time accepting Paul's message on this subject to the Gentiles. I guess, because they are so steeped in 'The Mosaic law'

 

[Eccl12and13]

Why question the very obvious and elementary? I think the burden of proof is upon those who think there are more than one law of God.

Let's read more of God's word and try to find just who the burden of proof is on concerning the 'ONE LAW' of God;

Rom.5
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Now let's read God's definition of sin once more;

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Now let's use just a little logic.......


If sin is the breaking of God's law, and until the law was given, there was still sin in the world, that would mean that there was the breaking of God's laws BEFORE the law was given. So which law was it that was given?

Let's read the last part of the verse; "...but sin is not imputed when there is no law."


So sin, or the breaking of God's law is not done away with, when there is no law.

Again...if God ONLY has one law, and that 'ONE LAW' has been done away with, how can there be any sin?


Why are we commanded to ask for forgiveness when we pray if there is no law to break?

Who is it that God is returning to punish if there are no laws that can be broken?

Why does Paul say, "Awake to righteousness, and sin not...", if there are no laws?


Which law is Paul speaking of when he said, "...there is no law."? The 'ONE LAW' of God?



.

 

[mark54]

Put the verses to back up your statement because I see some error in your understanding

I read all the bible

The law and the testimony

I read all the bible from Genesis to Malachi

Paul taught the Gentiles the scriptures which is from Genesis to Malachi

A lot of people don't know this

There was no NT written when the apostles walked the earth

So common sense lets us know that they read the OT!

Do you understand this?

Paul said he received the Gospel he preached, not from any man but from Jesus Christ Himself by revelation, this is some of what he wrote

Christ is the end of the law so that there might be righteousness for everyone who believes
Rom10:4

By abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations
Eph2:15
That doesn't sound to me like Paul is simply refering to anilmal sacrifices.

He forgave us all our sins having cancelled the written code with its regulations that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away nailing it to the cross
Col2:14