Paul did NOT die to the law!

[Cobus]

I wonder why the Holy Spirit bothers us to convince or reproof us of sin.... There is no law, then there is no sin, Yet the Holy Spirit is VERY busy reproofing SIN.... Sin is transgression of the LAW!

Fortunately god has a PERFECT answer to this.... God will PUT A NEW HEART of FLESH not STONE in us, and HE will put HIS SPIRIT in us and WE WILL OBEY HIM AND HIS STATUTES (LAWS and Righteousness) And He will be our God and we will be HIS PEOPLE!

That heart CANNOT sin! CANNOT! that is why I blieve in perfetion, sinless perfection, becasue ALL sin was removed with the OLD STONY HEART.... The NEW HEART is the SEED THAT REMAINETH IN US.... Ezekiel 36:26 and 27. 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18.

What an awesome God HE IS! Jew or Gentile, the NEW heart is what GOD is about, not the reciepient, the GIVER!

IOG do you have a bottle of milk to share with here on CC? I will bring the meat, and we can feed all! The fish are biting GOOD at out coastline now!

 

[mark54]

I wonder why the Holy Spirit bothers us to convince or reproof us of sin.... There is no law, then there is no sin, Yet the Holy Spirit is VERY busy reproofing SIN.... Sin is transgression of the LAW!

Fortunately god has a PERFECT answer to this.... God will PUT A NEW HEART of FLESH not STONE in us, and HE will put HIS SPIRIT in us and WE WILL OBEY HIM AND HIS STATUTES
yes

(LAWS and Righteousness) And He will be our God and we will be HIS PEOPLE!

That heart CANNOT sin! CANNOT! that is why I blieve in perfetion, sinless perfection, becasue ALL sin was removed with the OLD STONY HEART....
No
If while we seek to be justified in Christ it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does this mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyd I prove that I am a lawbreaker
Gal2:17&18

The NEW HEART is the SEED THAT REMAINETH IN US.... Ezekiel 36:26 and 27. 1 John 3:9 and 1 John 5:18.

What an awesome God HE IS! Jew or Gentile, the NEW heart is what GOD is about, not the reciepient, the GIVER!

IOG do you have a bottle of milk to share with here on CC? I will bring the meat, and we can feed all! The fish are biting GOOD at out coastline now!

The man who thinks he knows something does not yout know as he ought to know~
1Cor8:2

 

[PS]

An example.

We are born and if we keep the law of the land in which we live we have not sinned according to the law. Then we die. End of.
However there are those who are given an OBE or a peerage by the reigning monarch for service or loyalty to the throne and it is the same for those who serve and are loyal to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

The law ends in death. We need to look to the Lord Jesus Christ because “our citizenship is in heaven (not on earth)-- and we also await a saviour from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform these humble bodies of ours into the likeness of his glorious body by means of that power by which he is able to subject all things to himself.” Php 3:20

We need to keep the law while at the same time looking to the author and finisher of our faith from whom all blessings flow. As Paul said to the Jews, “You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision (Jewish law) counts for anything, but only faith working through love.” Gal 5:4

 

[PS]

An example from the righteous Pharisees who kept the law

Rom_3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Rom_3:28 we are justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Gal_2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal_3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law (NO) or by hearing with faith? (YES)

Gal_3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law (NO), or by hearing with faith— (YES)

Gal_3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse;

.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What law?

There are many laws?

Which one?

which one do you think? There is only one law per say. and many parts to it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Lets see
We have the law of
Animal sacrifice
Circumcision
Sabbath
feast days
Commandments
Dietary laws

Wow so many laws

Si Which law are you taking about?

How about ALL of them? All part of one law. And lets not forget the commandments, and not just the ten, but those would suffice. to show us our need for Christ.

 

[mark54]

Yes it is very plain

We have a people here who drink blood
Worship idols
Cheat on there wives or mess around with boys or men

So this being the case they break the 1st commandments about having other God's before Jesus they break the law about adultery, homosexuality and no drinking of blood was instituted in Noah's day

But you see, in my heart I agree the above is wrong, and I don't even know off by heart the Mosaic law. Could that be because the law is written on my Heart God wants me to keep?
BTW

Are you really asking me not to cut my hair at the sides or clip off the edges of my beard(well I haven't got one) Am I expected to grow a beard too?

 

[mark54]

You know I don't understand how a person is expected to rigidly concentrate on obediance to the whole of the Mosaic law(bar burnt offerings) plus each and every literal command of Christ and earnestly strive to obey the lot.
For myself, I am just grateful I am convinced I don't have to spend every waking moment of every day concentrating on all of those laws/commandments, for the law is simply written on our hearts and minds/our conscience, so we can spend our time, not fixating on all of those things but worshipping in Spirit and in truth, for those are the worshippers the Father wants

 

[PS]

As Christians this is what we should do

CLICKY

 

[loveme1]

Much instruction given seek Him.

Matthew 7

Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

 

[zone]

Let's read a few definitions;
Transgress - To break a law, to violate, to commit a sin, to disobey.
Add - To make an addition to, to join, to increase in quantity.
Change - To pass from one state to another, to make different, to modify.
Now let's read some scriptures;
1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Gal.3
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Heb.7
[12] For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
We know from reading the above scriptures what a transgression is to God. It is that act of breaking one of His laws. 1 John 3. And the same holds true when we read the definition.
We also know the definition of the words 'add', and 'change'.
So when we read in Gal.3:19 that a law was 'added' we know this to mean that a law, some law, (was joined to), or that there was an (increase in quantity) to laws that already existed. And this law that was 'added' was done so because of transgressions, which is the breaking of God's laws. So we have a law that was ADDED because of the breaking of laws!
And finally we read in Heb.7:12 that there was a law of God that HAD to be changed. And God tells us the reason that this law had to be changed was because of the priesthood. So....was God speaking about ALL of His laws being changed or modified, as says the definition? Or was Paul referring to a specific law?
So.....if God ONLY has one law...and if Paul ONLY speaks of this one law of God throughout his writings, which law is he speaking of above when he says a law was 'added' because of transgressions? And which law was it that needed to be changed because of the priesthood?
Let's reason for a moment.....
Was God's law of 'Do not kill', added because of transgressions. Or was it changed because of the priesthood?
Was God's law of 'Do not have respect of persons', added because of transgressions. Or was it changed because of the priesthood?
Was God's law of 'Love thy neighbor as thyself, added because of transgressions. Or was it changed because of the priesthood?
Was God's law of 'Do not covet', added because of transgressions. Or was it changed because of the priesthood?
Just which law of God was added because of transgressions, or was changed because of the priesthood?
It would seem the burden of proof would be to find this all encompassing 'ONE LAW' of God so many talk about!

calling all gentiles!

"Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved."

don't worry, it has value if you observe the whole Law. you can do it!

(never mind about what James said - he didn't really mean it. Paul neither. and Peter was right to only eat with jews)

get busy gentiles! didn't you know there both jew and gentile in Christ Jesus? the flesh profits something!

and one hath an advantage.....oh....maybe that's why there are so many Anglo-Israel/Hebrew Roo... *whips out credit card for shofar*


Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved."

Romans 2:25
Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.

Galatians 5:2
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

[Eccl12and13]

An example from the righteous Pharisees who kept the law

Rom_3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Rom_3:28 we are justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Gal_2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal_3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law (NO) or by hearing with faith? (YES)

Gal_3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law (NO), or by hearing with faith— (YES)

Gal_3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse;

.

You quoted scriptures to prove a point but you have no idea what you have quoted.

Did you even notice that in EVERY verse you quoted Paul uses the phrase 'works of the law'?

Do you know what law it is he is speaking of?

Do you know what law of God requires works?


Let's read the definition of work;


work - activity directed toward making or doing something, exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose.


Now...what law of God required work, or activity to be done?

Does God's law of 'Do not kill', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of 'Do not covet', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of 'Love thy neighbor as thy self', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of "Love God with all of thine heart', require work or physical activity?



Paul is speaking about a specific law that requires an activity directed toward making or doing something, or to exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose.


Now which law of God required WORK to be done?


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Well...the answer is plain and simple, and it has already been given you by other users here, but you won't still get it: God gave but one law.

Let's read more of God's word and try to find if God gave mankind 'ONE LAW' only;

Rom.5
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Now let's read God's definition of sin once more;

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Now let's use just a little logic.......


If sin is the breaking of God's law, and until the law was given, there was still sin in the world, that would mean that there was the breaking of God's laws BEFORE the law was given. So which law was it that was given?

Let's read the last part of the verse; "...but sin is not imputed when there is no law."


So sin, or the breaking of God's law is not done away with, when there is no law.

Again...if God ONLY has one law, and that 'ONE LAW' has been done away with, how can there be any sin?


Why are we commanded to ask for forgiveness when we pray if there is no law to break?

Who is it that God is returning to punish if there are no laws that can be broken?

Why does Paul say, "Awake to righteousness, and sin not...", if there are no laws?


Which law is Paul speaking of when he said, "...there is no law."? The 'ONE LAW' of God?



.

 

[PS]

You quoted scriptures to prove a point but you have no idea what you have quoted.

Did you even notice that in EVERY verse you quoted Paul uses the phrase 'works of the law'?

Do you know what law it is he is speaking of?

Do you know what law of God requires works?

Let's read the definition of work;

work - activity directed toward making or doing something, exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose.

Now...what law of God required work, or activity to be done?

Does God's law of 'Do not kill', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of 'Do not covet', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of 'Love thy neighbor as thy self', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of "Love God with all of thine heart', require work or physical activity?

Paul is speaking about a specific law that requires an activity directed toward making or doing something, or to exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose.

Now which law of God required WORK to be done?.

You would be better making your point instead of asking riddles.

I chose those verses specifically because they tell us that "works of law" are useless.

They make the point rather well.

 

[zone]

Ecc 12 & 13
no need to answer this if its too personal, but if a hypothetical man who believes as you do has sons, would he have them circumcised on the eight day because it is commanded?

 

[Eccl12and13]

You would be better making your point instead of asking riddles.

I chose those verses specifically because they tell us that "works of law" are useless.

They make the point rather well.

Not asking riddles....just asking that one would use logic and ask yourself the questions presented.

Paul used the phrase 'works of the law' but you do not know what he means by it.

So I presented the questions in hope that you would do as God's word instructs us to do;


2 Tim.2
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1 Thes.5
[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
2 Tim.4
[5] .....make full proof of thy ministry.


So again I ask....

Do you know what law of God required works?


Does God's law of 'Do not kill', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of 'Do not covet', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of 'Love thy neighbor as thy self', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of "Love God with all of thine heart', require work or physical activity?

Paul is speaking about a specific law that requires an activity directed toward making or doing something, or to exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose.

Now which law of God required WORK to be done?.


Don't you think it's worth searching for and proving just what law it is that Paul speaks of that requires work?

Surly it's not any of the above laws because NONE of them require work or physical activity...so Paul must be speaking about another law of God aside from those mentioned above.


Another phrase that Paul uses is 'deeds of the law'. Let's read..


Rom.3
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Now let's read the definition of deed;

Deed - something that people do or cause to happen, an action or act.


So again we have Paul referring to a law of God that once again requires something to be done or an action to be performed.


Does any of the laws above require an action or that someone causes something to happen? Again....No!


Just what law is it that Paul speaks of that requires works and deeds?


Is it not worth searching for? For we have been given a command, a law even, to, "...Prove all things...", and to, "...make full proof of thy ministry." These are not options....God commands it, thus even this is a law!


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Ecc 12 & 13
no need to answer this if its too personal, but if a hypothetical man who believes as you do has sons, would he have them circumcised on the eight day because it is commanded?

Why thank you for being so caring and asking if this question is too personal............


Shouldn't one always do as God commands?


So will you now ask me if I would do some obscure law found in the OT because God also commands it?


.

 

[zone]

Why thank you for being so caring and asking if this question is too personal............
Shouldn't one always do as God commands?
So will you now ask me if I would do some obscure law found in the OT because God also commands it?

n.m.
your posts are miles long and always end with pressing questions the reader is to answer.
i'm okay with that. but my question was simple.

perhaps not straightforward enough.

maybe i'm dense, but i guess i'll just ask outright: after having become a Christian, is the christian to have his sons circumcised on the eight day according to Law, and proceed to live by the all Law of Moses [minus the animal sacrifices of course]?

(that's not a two part question)
ty.

 

[PS]

Not asking riddles....just asking that one would use logic and ask yourself the questions presented.

Paul used the phrase 'works of the law' but you do not know what he means by it.

So I presented the questions in hope that you would do as God's word instructs us to do;

2 Tim.2
[15] Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
1 Thes.5
[21] Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
2 Tim.4
[5] .....make full proof of thy ministry.

So again I ask....

Do you know what law of God required works?

Does God's law of 'Do not kill', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of 'Do not covet', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of 'Love thy neighbor as thy self', require work or physical activity?

Does God's law of "Love God with all of thine heart', require work or physical activity?

Paul is speaking about a specific law that requires an activity directed toward making or doing something, or to exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose.

Now which law of God required WORK to be done?.


Don't you think it's worth searching for and proving just what law it is that Paul speaks of that requires work?

Surly it's not any of the above laws because NONE of them require work or physical activity...so Paul must be speaking about another law of God aside from those mentioned above.

Another phrase that Paul uses is 'deeds of the law'. Let's read..

Rom.3
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Now let's read the definition of deed;

Deed - something that people do or cause to happen, an action or act.

So again we have Paul referring to a law of God that once again requires something to be done or an action to be performed.

Does any of the laws above require an action or that someone causes something to happen? Again....No!

Just what law is it that Paul speaks of that requires works and deeds?

Is it not worth searching for? For we have been given a command, a law even, to, "...Prove all things...", and to, "...make full proof of thy ministry." These are not options....God commands it, thus even this is a law!

Paul specifically said we are condemned by the law and that the GOSPEL is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (Rom 1:16)

Two chapters later he elaborates: (Rom 3:19-24 ERV) "What the law says is for those who are under the law. It stops anyone from making excuses. And it brings the whole world under God's judgement, because no one can be made right with God by following the law. The law only shows us our sin.

"But God has a way to make people right, and it has nothing to do with the law. He has now shown us that new way (the New Covenant), which the law and the prophets told us about. God makes people right through their faith in Jesus Christ. He does this for all who believe in Christ. Everyone is the same. All have sinned and are not good enough to share God's divine greatness. They are made right with God by his grace. (Not the law). This is a free gift. They are made right with God by being made free from sin through Jesus Christ." (Rom 3:19-21 ERV)

We are not beholden by the law to study the Word of God, like any good worker we need to study if we are to make personal progress, there is no slapping of the wrist if we don't but we will be poorer spiritually if we neglect our quiet time of study, prayer and reflection.

Abstaining from wearing cloths made of mixed fabrics do not save us from our sin, neither does abstaining from eating shellfish and pork it simply means we won't get tummy ache or worms from the pigs that used to scavenge among the human excrement keeping the place clean while becoming unclean themselves. The law is for our physical welfarewhile salvation of the heart is for our spiritual well-being.

The Israelites kept the law in the same way we keep health and hygiene laws along with the laws of the land, which if broken condemn us according to the law but as well as that they believed in God and had faith in Jehovah wherein was their salvation.

You say,
Another phrase that Paul uses is 'deeds of the law'. Let's read..

Rom.3
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

I quote this above and if you read it you will see we are NOT justified by deeds of the law but verse 28 tells us we ARE justified by faith WITHOUT deeds of the law.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Rom.3
[20] Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
[28] Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

I quote this above and if you read it you will see we are NOT justified by deeds of the law but verse 28 tells us we ARE justified by faith WITHOUT deeds of the law.

Again I ask..... Do you know what laws of God required deeds/works?

Was Paul referring to the laws of; Do not kill, lie or steal? Do they require some sort of deeds/works? In other words, do the above laws require an activity directed toward making or doing something, or to exert oneself by doing mental or physical work for a purpose.


.