Perfection in the Flesh - A Modern Strawman - Heresy of Penal Substitution
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Actually it has been twice in this thread so far alone so.......
the jews can't cope with it either.
with no small irony, they either ignore it and drop if from the liturgy, or have decided to make it about themselves, corporately.
they are the suffering servant.
i kid you not.
sound familiar?
E
What early church? You mean paul peter james and john? For that is the only church I follow.
The taught you forgave your brother 70 times 7 times. You did not judge people, That you were secure in your salvation. that we are saved by faith alone. That we HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED (not might be) that we HAVE BEEN SEALED. etc etc.
they taught that sin was sin was sin, That even breaking the least of the commands made you guilty of every law God gave. And that as we grew in Christ, we saw how truly sinful we are. why can;t you see this in yourself? Paul stated he was wretched. do you not see yourself this way? if you don;t I have serious issues with you, and I doubt your saved.
Finally. cool it with the long posts. I do not read them, you do not need to post books every time you restpod to someone.
I asked you how Christs blood can atone for ANY sin after we are first saved. You do not need to write a book explaining your view. just flat out tell it.
The taught you forgave your brother 70 times 7 times. You did not judge people, That you were secure in your salvation. that we are saved by faith alone. That we HAVE BEEN JUSTIFIED (not might be) that we HAVE BEEN SEALED. etc etc.
they taught that sin was sin was sin, That even breaking the least of the commands made you guilty of every law God gave. And that as we grew in Christ, we saw how truly sinful we are. why can;t you see this in yourself? Paul stated he was wretched. do you not see yourself this way? if you don;t I have serious issues with you, and I doubt your saved.
Finally. cool it with the long posts. I do not read them, you do not need to post books every time you restpod to someone.
I asked you how Christs blood can atone for ANY sin after we are first saved. You do not need to write a book explaining your view. just flat out tell it.
A
You very correct on this...some wait for an opportunity to slam someone by "inference" or "implication"
If a pastor is trying to comfort a flock and at the same time cover every theological base at the same
time...they tape it and hang them out as examples.
Once in a thread someone did that with a vid....made railing accusations against someone
so i immediately threw up another vid from the same person being accused who was at a different teaching
and showing the folks the truth about what he was accused for.
Ive got no problem exposing a false teacher....just get a real one.
A
Whether its a tactic or not...i wouldnt know. But its always good to feed a lie inside a large
amount of truth. Here we call it baffling them with BS
But most of the time who wants to dialogue with much more than one small topic at a time?
And so true.....please narrow down the size so i dont have to object to so much at a time.
well mark, apparently He died for the ungodly, but for no purpose.
since you must be sinless and perfectly righteous before God will save you.
ungodly sinners can go to the Cross, which was established to point them back to Moses for salvation.
once you have obeyed Moses (be circumcised also), then you can come back to the Cross.
do you suppose anyone in the history of the world has been saved?
is that Good News?
since you must be sinless and perfectly righteous before God will save you.
ungodly sinners can go to the Cross, which was established to point them back to Moses for salvation.
once you have obeyed Moses (be circumcised also), then you can come back to the Cross.
do you suppose anyone in the history of the world has been saved?
is that Good News?
Disconnecting faith from works is error because faith IS a work (1Th 1:3). Faith is simply obeying or yielding to God from the heart (hence it is shown by action Jam 2:18). There is a distinction between the "works of faith" and the "works of the law." I wrote an article which addresses that distinction. The Pearl of Great Price: Works
It is true that Heb 10:26 does not apply to those who have never been sanctified in the first place. In fact it does not apply to most who profess Jesus because very few have actually truly repented and that is why so many professing Christian's are addicted to various sins. For example...
The reason that surveys bear statistics like that out is because practically no-one is being redeemed from sin within the church system because the true message of redemption is not being preached. The true Gospel has been supplanted by a hoax where people are induced to simply confess, trust and receive and all that happens is a perceived notion in sin. This is why most who profess Christ truly believe that someone can be actively engaged in pornography addiction (for example) and still be saved. It's an apostate religion that has nothing to do with God. If God was in it then people would be being redeemed from their sin, not saved in their bondage. Salvation and Bondage are opposites.
Many people "think" they are saved and they are not. Satan has deceived them. If they were truly children of God the fruit of their lives would bear witness to it. He who sins is of the devil, he who does what is right is righteous. Jesus is not the minister of sin. Christian's have departed from iniquity, if they haven't they need to because the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom.
The Romans Wretch is not saved. The wretch is carnal and sold under sin and you just described a wretch who needs deliverance.
The Bible is clear that if you walk after the flesh you will die. It is those who are led by the Spirit that put to death the deeds of the body that will live. That is what the Bible teaches. Most people just don't believe it, they make excuses and an allowance via their dogma to excuse sin. Just like you are doing.
Jesus said if you sin you are a slave to sin. Paul said you are a slave to whom you obey, either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. You cannot do both. You cannot serve two masters.
The false teachers preach a lie where you can serve two masters and you believe it.
Look at this...
Victory in faith while being overcome by sin in a weak, fallible body? Come on you are making excuses for sin. You don't see anyone in the Bible teach that way. They preached VICTORY IN CHRIST. You preach defeat but maybe a victory one day but meanwhile your covered by grace. That is simply not what the Bible teaches.
Paul specifically stated that the unrighteous will not enter the kingdom and he specifically listed actions which will disqualify someone.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Does that warning just bounce off your mind because you think you have been cloaked in the imputed righteousness of Christ and that all you future sins have been forgiven?
Paul is plainly telling you that the people who DO THOSE THINGS will not inherit the kingdom.
Look at this warning...
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Yet that warning too falls on deaf ears due to the ear tickling deceit of the false teachers.
People like me are voices crying in the wilderness. There are hardly any of us. This whole situation is terrible.
It is what it is I guess. Yet it breaks my heart to see it. So many people are going to lose their souls because they didn't believe the Bible but listened to the celebrity preachers and bought hook, line and sinker into what they said.
It is true that Heb 10:26 does not apply to those who have never been sanctified in the first place. In fact it does not apply to most who profess Jesus because very few have actually truly repented and that is why so many professing Christian's are addicted to various sins. For example...
The reason that surveys bear statistics like that out is because practically no-one is being redeemed from sin within the church system because the true message of redemption is not being preached. The true Gospel has been supplanted by a hoax where people are induced to simply confess, trust and receive and all that happens is a perceived notion in sin. This is why most who profess Christ truly believe that someone can be actively engaged in pornography addiction (for example) and still be saved. It's an apostate religion that has nothing to do with God. If God was in it then people would be being redeemed from their sin, not saved in their bondage. Salvation and Bondage are opposites.
Many people "think" they are saved and they are not. Satan has deceived them. If they were truly children of God the fruit of their lives would bear witness to it. He who sins is of the devil, he who does what is right is righteous. Jesus is not the minister of sin. Christian's have departed from iniquity, if they haven't they need to because the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom.
The Romans Wretch is not saved. The wretch is carnal and sold under sin and you just described a wretch who needs deliverance.
The Bible is clear that if you walk after the flesh you will die. It is those who are led by the Spirit that put to death the deeds of the body that will live. That is what the Bible teaches. Most people just don't believe it, they make excuses and an allowance via their dogma to excuse sin. Just like you are doing.
Jesus said if you sin you are a slave to sin. Paul said you are a slave to whom you obey, either sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. You cannot do both. You cannot serve two masters.
The false teachers preach a lie where you can serve two masters and you believe it.
Look at this...
Victory in faith while being overcome by sin in a weak, fallible body? Come on you are making excuses for sin. You don't see anyone in the Bible teach that way. They preached VICTORY IN CHRIST. You preach defeat but maybe a victory one day but meanwhile your covered by grace. That is simply not what the Bible teaches.
Paul specifically stated that the unrighteous will not enter the kingdom and he specifically listed actions which will disqualify someone.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Does that warning just bounce off your mind because you think you have been cloaked in the imputed righteousness of Christ and that all you future sins have been forgiven?
Paul is plainly telling you that the people who DO THOSE THINGS will not inherit the kingdom.
Look at this warning...
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Yet that warning too falls on deaf ears due to the ear tickling deceit of the false teachers.
People like me are voices crying in the wilderness. There are hardly any of us. This whole situation is terrible.
It is what it is I guess. Yet it breaks my heart to see it. So many people are going to lose their souls because they didn't believe the Bible but listened to the celebrity preachers and bought hook, line and sinker into what they said.
My message is not stone her to death. My message is repent, forsake evil and turn to God for He will raise you up to newness of life.
It's sad to see how some of you have to resort to misrepresentations instead of directly dealing with the specifics I have addressed. I know misdirection and name calling is easy to do but it is a very shallow approach and reveals the dishonesty in your hearts. It brings to mind how it was the Pharisees who would strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. There is indeed nothing new under the sun.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
It's sad to see how some of you have to resort to misrepresentations instead of directly dealing with the specifics I have addressed. I know misdirection and name calling is easy to do but it is a very shallow approach and reveals the dishonesty in your hearts. It brings to mind how it was the Pharisees who would strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. There is indeed nothing new under the sun.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
yeah. DeSario prepared you guys for it. how many of you are there?
he said once you've stalked and set up pastors; denied substitutionary atonement; and as you agitate the flock continually, disturbing the peace, you should interpret the animosity you've stirred up as the sign you're among the few.
GO TO LOST SINNERS and preach the Offensive Gospel and be reviled for a change.
he said once you've stalked and set up pastors; denied substitutionary atonement; and as you agitate the flock continually, disturbing the peace, you should interpret the animosity you've stirred up as the sign you're among the few.
GO TO LOST SINNERS and preach the Offensive Gospel and be reviled for a change.
and that is why so many professing Christian's are addicted to various sins. For example...
Thirty percent of women are addicted to it. Sixty-seven percent of men say they look at it at least once a month.
“It” refers to pornography. The statistics above reveal how pornography is an epidemic within the church community, and these numbers mirror secular statistics. The percentages are provided by Transparent Ministries and Morality in Media, respectively.
Thirty percent of women are addicted to it. Sixty-seven percent of men say they look at it at least once a month.
“It” refers to pornography. The statistics above reveal how pornography is an epidemic within the church community, and these numbers mirror secular statistics. The percentages are provided by Transparent Ministries and Morality in Media, respectively.
Read more at Pornography Harms Women, Invades the Church
Thirty percent of women are addicted to it. Sixty-seven percent of men say they look at it at least once a month.
“It” refers to pornography. The statistics above reveal how pornography is an epidemic within the church community, and these numbers mirror secular statistics. The percentages are provided by Transparent Ministries and Morality in Media, respectively.
Thirty percent of women are addicted to it. Sixty-seven percent of men say they look at it at least once a month.
“It” refers to pornography. The statistics above reveal how pornography is an epidemic within the church community, and these numbers mirror secular statistics. The percentages are provided by Transparent Ministries and Morality in Media, respectively.
Read more at Pornography Harms Women, Invades the Church
Glad you posted the above Skinski
Thanks
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. [SUP]5[/SUP]For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [SUP]8[/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me
Rom7:4-11
By preaching almost sinless perfection, even to become a Christian, you put the emphasis on law keeping for the convert. For sin is transgression of the law
Paul said
For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14
I repeat, your Gospel helps to be responsible for those statistics
If only you had a proper understanding of Romch7
Why do you think Paul was so insistent a person must die to the law?
the power of sin is the law(1Cor15:56)
BTW
Nothing wrong with the good and Holy laws of God, the problem is with man
It's your Gospel that causes those statistics Skinski. There will be many people suffering under those statistics becaue of your preaching. If you had a true understanding of the above scripture you would know why
Glad you posted the above Skinski
Thanks
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. [SUP]5[/SUP]For when we were controlled by the sinful nature,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [SUP]8[/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me
Rom7:4-11
By preaching almost sinless perfection, even to become a Christian, you put the emphasis on law keeping for the convert. For sin is transgression of the law
Paul said
For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14
I repeat, your Gospel helps to be responsible for those statistics
If only you had a proper understanding of Romch7
Why do you think Paul was so insistent a person must die to the law?
the power of sin is the law(1Cor15:56)
BTW
Nothing wrong with the good and Holy laws of God, the problem is with man
It's your Gospel that causes those statistics Skinski. There will be many people suffering under those statistics becaue of your preaching. If you had a true understanding of the above scripture you would know why
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A
My message is not stone her to death. My message is repent, forsake evil and turn to God for He will raise you up to newness of life.
HOW priggish of you to focus on the woman and not even notice the man is absent from accusation... it takes TWO ya know. Sorry skinski... you are missing it AGAIN
HOW priggish of you to focus on the woman and not even notice the man is absent from accusation... it takes TWO ya know. Sorry skinski... you are missing it AGAIN
Two? so then thats been my problem.