Obama's call for gay rights makes history

[Songbird_7]

I think this issue is quite simple. The Bible says in no uncertain terms that homosexuality is a sin, along with many other things. I have a gay friend and I also have struggled with my sexuality, and I have compassion for the sinner, ALL of them, not just gays. The problem in the US is that we have failed at representing our Lord to the world. Gays think all Christians ascribe to the beliefs of Westboro Baptist Church. But also that the world will always love darkness and hate the light. They do not want to hear that they are sinners. It is our job to speak truth, but in love. And it is the choice of the individual to turn from the sin and seek the only help there is, Jesus Christ and the power of His salvation. We don't judge others, but we also do not condone sin. Gays have been deceived into believing that their lifestyle is normal, that it's ok, and that they should be able to love whoever they want. No matter what laws are passed, God's law stands, and as Christians it is our job to be salt and light. Abortion is legal but we believe it is murder. Does the law somehow make it right? No. Gay "marriage", legal or not, will never be true spiritual union between 2 people. All I can do is show love to people, and in loving them I tell them that they are a sinner in need of a Savior. Gay or straight. That's it. I'm not worrying about the laws of the land.

 

[TheKringledOne]

I think that our government should get involved in marriages at all.

 

[webchatter]

I've had 2 dear friends in my life who were gay.(They are now deceased). So please don't think I am "judging" gays, I am not. This is a discussion from a Biblical perspective on a Christian site. I showed them respect & love, & I miss them. One was female, one was male. They both were believers who knew that it was a sin according to the Bible. The problem was,
they wern't born gay, & there isn't such a thing anyway. They were molested by gay predators, which convinced them they were born gay. Making such a union legal, doesn't help those people sort out these type of issues.
If the Bible is not the final authority on the matter, your opinion shouldn't count in a Biblical discussion, unless you have some evidence the translation is incorrect. It doesn't mean anyone is judging or being mean to a gay person.

SORRY, I should have specified this was in response Rechem's comment.

 

[Batman007]

Nautilus,
i see no connection between racial equality and the gay agenda.
one is human beings created in God's image treating each one as human beings, not animals, not using skin color as a cover for barbarism.
the other is the representative of an entire nation making a declaration on behalf of that nation that sexual sins condemned by God are good, and to be encouraged.

they are apples and oranges.

we are not in any way helping the homosexuals by telling them what they want to hear now.
if you don't know what God has said about it, maybe you should look.

i don't vote and am not politically active. i won't be opposing anything.
i'm just watching, and suggesting we be prepared to be persecuted for trying to remain within God's plan for sex and marriage and male and female.
and that we be ready to give an answer to any who are called out and seek God.

gays aren't happy, naut.
you know they're not. that's why they act out constantly. all the drama and activism.
drunks aren't happy. drug addicts aren't. adulterers aren't.
it's all real slavery.

and they're just being used to advance a program. everyone who takes part in this rebellion will lose in the end, naut.
read Psalm 2
love zone.

Ok... Ok, I'm not going to lie. This makes me mad. Like, I should just walk away because you're saying such a ridiculously ignorant thing.

Can I just ask: do you actually know any gay people?

By the way, you're right. Being black and being gay are two different things. However, denying rights just because a person is a certain way is exactly what we screwed up in history. And before we get into the "it's a choice, it's not a choice" argument, can I just point out that it doesn't really matter whether or not it's a choice. These people are in love. Love. This you cannot argue, because you have absolutely no right to tell another person what they feel. They're in love but because you see it as "wrong" in your eyes, you're going to deny them the right that so many straight people enjoy (and something half of those straight people enjoy more than once), which is marriage. Why do you care? Why does it make any difference to you whether or not two people who are in love can or can't get married?

And as far as the "gays aren't happy" thing... really? Do you really think that? Do you really feel entitled to take an entire group of people and judge them and label them just to make a political point? Sure some gay people aren't happy. Some straight people aren't happy, either.

Disagree with their lifestyle, I don't care. Really, I encourage you to have your opinion. But saying things like that... it's just so ignorant.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Ok... Ok, I'm not going to lie. This makes me mad. Like, I should just walk away because you're saying such a ridiculously ignorant thing.

Can I just ask: do you actually know any gay people?

By the way, you're right. Being black and being gay are two different things. However, denying rights just because a person is a certain way is exactly what we screwed up in history. And before we get into the "it's a choice, it's not a choice" argument, can I just point out that it doesn't really matter whether or not it's a choice. These people are in love. Love. This you cannot argue, because you have absolutely no right to tell another person what they feel. They're in love but because you see it as "wrong" in your eyes, you're going to deny them the right that so many straight people enjoy (and something half of those straight people enjoy more than once), which is marriage. Why do you care? Why does it make any difference to you whether or not two people who are in love can or can't get married?

And as far as the "gays aren't happy" thing... really? Do you really think that? Do you really feel entitled to take an entire group of people and judge them and label them just to make a political point? Sure some gay people aren't happy. Some straight people aren't happy, either.

Disagree with their lifestyle, I don't care. Really, I encourage you to have your opinion. But saying things like that... it's just so ignorant.

Objecting to something someone said as if it is wrong is totally in contradiction with a non-theistic worldview. This notion of rights is also entirely inconsistant with a non-theistic worldview. News flash for atheism: The universe doesn't care. It doesn't give you any rights. A non-theistic argument in support of same-sex marriage is a house of cards. Under atheism, it doesn't matter what you do. Love your neighbors, or eat them alive. The universe doesn't care.

 

[Batman007]

Objecting to something someone said as if it is wrong is totally in contradiction with a non-theistic worldview. This notion of rights is also entirely inconsistant with a non-theistic worldview. News flash for atheism: The universe doesn't care. It doesn't give you any rights. A non-theistic argument in support of same-sex marriage is a house of cards. Under atheism, it doesn't matter what you do. Love your neighbors, or eat them alive. The universe doesn't care.

Wait... lol what? What's atheism have to do with this?

Also, not that it's something that I want to go into but I have to point out, atheists have a sense of right and wrong. It's the biggest misconception christians think about nonbelievers.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Wait... lol what? What's atheism have to do with this?

I didn't say anything about atheism. I said non-theistic. Atheism would be non-theistic, but so is agnosticism, deism, and a whole host of options.

Also, not that it's something that I want to go into but I have to point out, atheists have a sense of right and wrong.

Correct. My post you are replying to assumes that.

It's the biggest misconception christians think about nonbelievers.

Probably not the biggest, but it's definitely in a list of the top ten.


My post is in response to your having objected to something as being wrong, and you argue that someone has rights. This is unsustainable at an intellectual level as long as you remain non-theistic. It would be incompatible even to the point of being non-monotheistic.

 

[raf]

People need to stop worrying about gays so much and put their angry focus on something like fixing the economies getting major companies to hire more people. People are getting too distracted by gays.

 

[Batman007]

I didn't say anything about atheism. I said non-theistic. Atheism would be non-theistic, but so is agnosticism, deism, and a whole host of options.

Atheism = nontheistic. The prefix "a" means "non". Also, deists believe in a god or gods.

My post is in response to your having objected to something as being wrong, and you argue that someone has rights. This is unsustainable at an intellectual level as long as you remain non-theistic. It would be incompatible even to the point of being non-monotheistic.

I never said something is wrong. I said that zone believes homosexuality is wrong. I disagree with his opinion but I certainly don't see his belief as wrong.

And I do think people have rights. However, I don't think those rights are passed down from a higher power. I think it's unfair to bring up my religious (or lack thereof) beliefs to use to discredit my opinion on this matter.

I also don't understand that last sentence.

 

[KCKID]

Obama's call for gay rights makes history

I could almost live with this if it said. "Obama's call for human rights makes History"
It is obvious that sex out side of marriage is a sin.

BUT ...covered by the blood of Jesus. We are ALL sinners, please never forget that.

Under God there is no way he will bless a Gay marriage.

But God WILL bless remarriage? Evidently so since our churches are most accepting of divorcees/remarrieds. Double standards? Hypocrisy? Which is it?

God never gave our government the authority to make a sin legal.

Then how come Christians are not as up in arms about government sanctioned divorce/remarriage when Jesus clearly stated that this is a no-no ...no ifs, ands or buts? I've NEVER YET seen a Church divided on the divorce/remarriage issue the likes of the homosexual marriage issue. Sorry for coming on so strong in my first post (since I haven't yet earned the right to do so) but I simply had to respond to this post in the manner that I have.

God is in control. Rest in the fact that we can't see the big picture.

I'm sure that God IS in control so meanwhile we best take it easy on those we choose to condemn.

Incidentally, I personally have nothing against those who divorce and remarry. Plus, it's none of my business. I bring it up merely to make a pertinent point.

 

[zone]

Ok... Ok, I'm not going to lie. This makes me mad. Like, I should just walk away because you're saying such a ridiculously ignorant thing.

Can I just ask: do you actually know any gay people?

By the way, you're right. Being black and being gay are two different things. However, denying rights just because a person is a certain way is exactly what we screwed up in history. And before we get into the "it's a choice, it's not a choice" argument, can I just point out that it doesn't really matter whether or not it's a choice. These people are in love. Love. This you cannot argue, because you have absolutely no right to tell another person what they feel. They're in love but because you see it as "wrong" in your eyes, you're going to deny them the right that so many straight people enjoy (and something half of those straight people enjoy more than once), which is marriage. Why do you care? Why does it make any difference to you whether or not two people who are in love can or can't get married?

And as far as the "gays aren't happy" thing... really? Do you really think that? Do you really feel entitled to take an entire group of people and judge them and label them just to make a political point? Sure some gay people aren't happy. Some straight people aren't happy, either.

Disagree with their lifestyle, I don't care. Really, I encourage you to have your opinion. But saying things like that... it's just so ignorant.

1) i don't care if you care or not
2) this is a christian forum
3) i don't make law
4) i don't enforce law
5) rinse and repeat

 

[zone]

BUT ...covered by the blood of Jesus. We are ALL sinners, please never forget that.



But God WILL bless remarriage? Evidently so since our churches are most accepting of divorcees/remarrieds. Double standards? Hypocrisy? Which is it?



Then how come Christians are not as up in arms about government sanctioned divorce/remarriage when Jesus clearly stated that this is a no-no ...no ifs, ands or buts? I've NEVER YET seen a Church divided on the divorce/remarriage issue the likes of the homosexual marriage issue. Sorry for coming on so strong in my first post (since I haven't yet earned the right to do so) but I simply had to respond to this post in the manner that I have.



I'm sure that God IS in control so meanwhile we best take it easy on those we choose to condemn.

Incidentally, I personally have nothing against those who divorce and remarry. Plus, it's none of my business. I bring it up merely to make a pertinent point.

hi patient

 

[zone]

People need to stop worrying about gays so much and put their angry focus on something like fixing the economies getting major companies to hire more people. People are getting too distracted by gays.

a thread with the word gay in it.
don't click here if you don't like the discussion

 

[jimmydiggs]

People need to stop worrying about gays so much and put their angry focus on something like fixing the economies getting major companies to hire more people. People are getting too distracted by gays.

Oh come now.

If I don't like it, don't marry a guy right?

Don't like a thread on same-sex marriage? Don't read/post...

I haven't seeing much anger here yet.

I'm far less concerned with whether I'll have a job or not, than I am with salvation.

 

[KCKID]

I think this issue is quite simple. The Bible says in no uncertain terms that homosexuality is a sin, along with many other things.

...in no uncertain terms? Nowhere in the original texts of scripture is the term 'homosexuality/homosexual' used at all since this is a relatively modern term. So, that's a major strike for the 'in no uncertain terms' comment. Furthermore, the Bible refers to pretty well anything human beings do as being 'a sin'. In fact, we would be hard pressed to come up with a handful of human traits that are NOT 'sinful'. So, that said, can any of us talk about 'the sins' of another and be serious?

I have a gay friend and I also have struggled with my sexuality, and I have compassion for the sinner, ALL of them, not just gays.

Though unintentional, I'm sure, that was rather condescending. As said ...there is none righteous, no, not one (Romans 3:10) and so no one is any less sinful than anyone else. As a professed Christian of 25 years I still haven't managed to come to grips with the notion that some, even many, Christians really believe that everyone else is 'a sinner' but them. When questioned they will admit to being no better than anyone else but they don't really seem to believe it.

The problem in the US is that we have failed at representing our Lord to the world. Gays think all Christians ascribe to the beliefs of Westboro Baptist Church. But also that the world will always love darkness and hate the light. They do not want to hear that they are sinners. It is our job to speak truth, but in love. And it is the choice of the individual to turn from the sin and seek the only help there is, Jesus Christ and the power of His salvation. We don't judge others, but we also do not condone sin. Gays have been deceived into believing that their lifestyle is normal, that it's ok, and that they should be able to love whoever they want. No matter what laws are passed, God's law stands, and as Christians it is our job to be salt and light. Abortion is legal but we believe it is murder. Does the law somehow make it right? No. Gay "marriage", legal or not, will never be true spiritual union between 2 people. All I can do is show love to people, and in loving them I tell them that they are a sinner in need of a Savior. Gay or straight. That's it. I'm not worrying about the laws of the land.

I didn't respond to the above paragraph point-by-point because I already pretty well covered most of it in previous comments. You know, as a Christian I find it very difficult to relate to the viewpoints of some other Christians when it comes to this topic. I think it all boils down to the fact that the Bible has been learned by hearsay by most more so than the individual actually conducting their own research as to what the scriptures actually DO say about homosexuality and, more importantly, what they DON'T say about homosexuality. This is not a case of 'defending' homosexuality so much as finding out the truth behind what the Bible has to say about it. The Bible does NOT condemn homosexual marriage no matter how many times one might state that it does.

 

[KCKID]

hi patient

Hi back . . .um, why 'patient'?

 

[zone]

The Bible does NOT condemn homosexual marriage no matter how many times one might state that it does.

the bible condemns sodomy.

what are you doing here?

 

[Batman007]

the bible condemns sodomy.

what are you doing here?

Voicing their opinion on a public forum. What are you doing here?

 

[Nautilus]

the bible condemns sodomy.

what are you doing here?

Now sodomy is not restricted to just homosexual acts...so does this condemn some married couples as well?

 

[KCKID]

the bible condemns sodomy.

Really? Where? I'm not saying that it doesn't but I'd like for you to point that particular scripture out to me. That said, the Bible condemns just about everything we do as human beings. Seems to me that there are enough 'sins' to go around so why would sodomy weigh more than the rest? You sin, I sin, we all sin and will until the end of our days.

what are you doing here?

Um, I have a few days off work and was just browsing through the Internet and came across this forum. I briefly read through some of the threads and found them to be most interesting. I just happened upon this particular thread and thought that I might be able to contribute something to the topic. I realize that you have 11,687 posts up on me so I won't be rude enough to ask why you are here.