The prodigal son came back. Is coming 'back' a condition for OSAS faith ?

[PS]

Thats talking about the falling away of the church. we see this today and people are following deceiving spirits. Why do you want to trust self and not God?

Those lacking faith might be the church, but not those who have faith in God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those lacking faith might be the church, but not those who have faith in God.

those who do not have faith are not a part of the church, they are impostors playing a game, and comming to a building pretending to be christians. They may even be fooling themselves. but, even if they look saved, they are not. It takes true repentance which brings forth true faith, not mere belief.

 

[Crossfire]

You're adding something that was never written.

To quote my post: "The doctrine of losing salvation, not being secure in Christ, not being sealed unto redemption, maintaining your own salvation, denying God keeps us, etc - these are all apostate teachings!"

- I was saying that these are false teachings and we must not listen to them.


We are saved by grace through faith.

We receive the Holy Spirit the moment we are saved - our inheritance, sealed unto the day of redemption. One of the promises is eternal security and I find it hard to believe that so many doubt this promise. They want to believe that they are responsible for keeping their salvation. God chose us from the foundation of the world. He knew every future sin we would commit and how many times we would backslide, but He still saved us. He will never leave us or forsake us. If anyone speaks in opposition to scripture then they are teaching a false doctrine.

While the scriptures do speak of "eternal security", never once does it state that such security is unconditional. Yes, our salvation does indeed rest entirely on the work of Christ and not human effort. However, many seem to overlook the nature of faith.

"According to your faith be it unto you..." (Matthew 9:29)

While each of us receives a measure of faith at salvation, scripture clearly states that faith can grow and / or it can wither and die. It is entirely possible for some of us to RECEIVE the maturity of faith to believe that our salvation may never be taken from us as scripture does indeed imply, others may not have reached such a place of security in faith. However, that does not make them any less saved.

 

[PS]

those who do not have faith are not a part of the church, they are impostors playing a game, and comming to a building pretending to be christians. They may even be fooling themselves. but, even if they look saved, they are not. It takes true repentance which brings forth true faith, not mere belief.

I agree with you, but non-the-less they were "among them" in order to come out from "among them." but as you say they did not believe, they were pretend Christians which makes those texts worthless.

 

[Kate913]

I m not sure where you came up with the concept of 'continue to receive Him'?
Remember it is not a matter of how tight we hold His hand (as his children) but rather the fact that He holds our hand.

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
(Joh 10:28-29)

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
(Gal 4:6-7)

If I had to live the Christian life wondering if I am continuing to receive Him I would never experience His peace.
Besides the eternal life we have received when we first believed was accompanied by receiving the Holy Spirit as a guarantee and seal.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(Gal 3:2)

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
(2Co 1:22)

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(Eph 1:13)

But we can choose to let go of our Fathers hand and deny his gesture.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

We can deny him, and we can do it after we have received the spirit. Which means we choose to no longer receive it. We are supposed to be on guard and watch our life and doctrine closely. What are these warnings even for if not to warn us of what we might lose? It is the very gospel that we continue to deny our fleshly nature and live for God.

Hebrews 3:12
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.

 

[Kate913]

I m not sure where you came up with the concept of 'continue to receive Him'?
Remember it is not a matter of how tight we hold His hand (as his children) but rather the fact that He holds our hand.

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
(Joh 10:28-29)

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
(Gal 4:6-7)

If I had to live the Christian life wondering if I am continuing to receive Him I would never experience His peace.
Besides the eternal life we have received when we first believed was accompanied by receiving the Holy Spirit as a guarantee and seal.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
(Gal 3:2)

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
(2Co 1:22)

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(Eph 1:13)

We have peace with God that we could even be saved at all! Knowing his love and mercy and that for some reason He has chosen not to harden our hearts.

Romans 5:1-2
5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.

 

[Kate913]

God does not hate His children. Until a person becomes a child of God (righteous by the blood of Jesus) they remain in the world, being led by Satan.

John 8:44-47: "You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

As children of God we have become new creatures in Christ. We are righteous by the blood of Jesus and we are no longer condemned. We are forgiven. Those who do not believe are condemned.

John 3:18-21: "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their (the unsaved) deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Those, who are truly children of God, will be chastened when they stray, as I mentioned in my earlier post.

There is only one spiritual birth (being born again/born of God)... we are not saved multiple times.



You're adding to scripture, which is a serious thing. Nowhere do I see an IF when God promises us eternal life.

You are trying to maintain your salvation by your own performance (works), which you can't do. Eternal security is one of the promises given to believers the moment we are saved. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (our inheritance!) It doesn't say "sealed until your next sin" and it also doesn't say the Holy Spirit keeps leaving and then returning each time. We are saved once, not multiple times.

Galatians 3:3 - "Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" We cannot earn our own salvation, so neither can we earn the maintenance of our salvation. It is God who maintains our salvation.

The word of God says that we are being saved. We can know that we have eternal life and are saved, but we must also know that it is only if we continue to walk by the spirit. We have not yet been born again, we have the power to become sons of God but it has not yet been made complete. We are children of God as long as we walk by the spirit, but if we deny and turn away then we no longer have the spirit and have fallen from our secure position.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Romans 8:23-25
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

Katy-follower, you are taking away from the scripture and not looking at it as a whole, but rather stopping at a few verses and only using them, when I have shown you already how God uses all these verses(both ones that I have posted and ones that you have as well) together. I say this out of Love because it is Truth. There are many "if's" in scripture when referring to eternal life.

Romans 11:22
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Philippians 2:12-13
12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Colossians 1:22-23
22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.

Galatians 6:9
9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

1 Timothy 4:15-16
15 Be diligent in these matters; give yourself wholly to them, so that everyone may see your progress. 16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Romans 8:17
17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

The word does say that we are cleansed of our past sins when we repent, so we must be in continual repentance or else our sins are not forgiven! If we do not repent we will not be forgiven. This is not an only works gospel. The word of God says faith without works is dead, we cannot just discount works all together, but rather faith is accompanied by works of the Spirit.

James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

How is it preaching a "saved by works only gospel" when I have only quoted the word of God? It says we must continue in order to receive eternal life. God says that, not me. Dig into the word, see if it is not so. Be a good Berean. God says that we are supposed to examine ourselves, watch our life and doctorine closely, test all things to see if they are of God, rebuke and admonish, and that disagreements must happen to show who has God's favor. How is this works? This is obeying the word of God and believing that it is true! Or have you forgotten that love is obedience? If you do not obey Him you do not Love Him. That is why the word says to continue to obey. Christ warned people that they may lose their first Love! If we Love Him and then again hate Him by the Love of ourselves and this world then He will deny us. This is the Truth. May the Lord give all of us eyes to see and ears to hear.

 

[Kate913]

It has nothing to do with US. It has everything to do with God.

If we really repent. we would never leave, because we are born of God. This is what John said, do you wish to believe some men who teach this, or listen to God through the Apostle John who states clearly they were never of us, for if they were of us, THEY NEVER WOULD HAVE LEFT.

It is a continual repentance. Repentance only cleanses us of our past sins, therefore we must continually be in repentance, considering that the word says a righteous man falls seven times a day. His kindness leads us to repentance, but the word also says we must continue to walk in His Love and Kindness.
I wish you would read my posts to others above where I've already talked about some of the things your saying. I am not listening to the words of men, I assure you this teaching was brought about by longing to be taught of God and not wanting anything of myself to get in the way. The word of God speaks clearly, we just have to be willing to listen. The Truth works together. There are no verses more true then others. God does not contradict Himself. We cannot discount some verses and uplift others. The many warnings in scripture by the apostles and even Christ are there for a reason and that reason is to warn us.

 

[Kate913]

Galatians 1:8-9: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed"

Paul was warning them about false teachers that teach another gospel. Paul confirms that it's not WHO teaches but WHAT is being taught that is to be used to determine truth from error.

This is not a scripture supporting conditional salvation at all.

This is showing that Paul, a man who had the Spirit, admits that he could come preaching another gospel and warns the Galatians to make sure that he is not. The Spirit of Christ does not preach a false gospel, which means in order for Paul to, he would have to choose to deny the Spirit.

 

[GreenNnice]

We need to be careful not to squeeze a passage so hard it squeels out anything we want it to say.

Abiding, like all of us that let the Lord lead our lives, I do prayerfully write my thoughts, not sinlessly every time, for my mouth can, indeed, get me in trouble sometimes, and, judging other Christians who are like you, and, going the same place you are, is not a wise thing to do. In fact, what measure of judgment we do on other believers THAT judgment will be measured back, I think Scripture says.
how
But, yes, like Paul, who could have written out of His Roman scholarship and erudite leadership of the Romans, in speaking to the Corinth church, turned all that aside and said that he spoke simply from the Spirit of God telling Him what to say. I speak the same way, I hope and pray. The Lord leads. It's very simple, knowing that, we are to FOLLOW HIM.

My point doing this thread, and, some might not like it, but the first part was to show that the father had a son who was a Christian before he left, we can all agree by the son's ponderings once away from His father that He was ANNOINTED and not mere belief but actually KNEW the Lord and knew what he was doing was wrong.

The second part shown was that the father said his son was dead and then alive, this speaks volumes, to me, anyway, that we can, indeed, be spiritually dead, and, we who were WITH God, like this son, can become not with God, and, being not with God is being DEAD THE DEAD bury their OWN DEAD; they are NOT going to be with Him My, this is way too sad of a post. I am going to stop there , pretty much. But, then , he 'came to his sense' and was back with God in his life
Oh, goood, we got a smily face, I guess we can keep going writing a little more then

To me, it's ridiculous to say it's a simple story about 'Once a son, always a son.' Dumb. Not the TRUE FAITH meaning. Which is a story of faith, it is a story of how God works in our lives when we are a 'prodigal son,' and, that, in fact, is what many on here have said, squirrelfriend, that they were THAT prodigal son at one time. Eg said it, I think books said it, otheers, too. You will have to go back through the posts , but this is a POWERFUL story of faith, and, realizing that God COMES after us when we go away from Him.

How did the prodigal son come to his senses? God. And, what did God do for the prodigal son who ran away?

Showed him grace? Absolutely. He didn't deserve to come back to God, for spiting Him for the world but God came back for the prodigal son but the son CHOSE to come back to his father. Some like to think the father=God. I agree.

Showed him mercy? Absolutely. The son could have been so becoming enrapt in his worldly pleasures that he was too far gone to EVER come back to God, but God made Himself known to the son and that was God's love too shown

Showed the son love? Yep, that, too.

The prodigal son is a story about God's love for us, just like the father, when we run off, we can go back into his arms. The son thought that his dad would disown him when he went back home but the father welcomed the son into his arms.

 

[crossnote]

Kate 913 wrote "The word of God says that we are being saved. We can know that we have eternal life and are saved, but we must also know that it is only if we continue to walk by the spirit. We have not yet been born again, we have the power to become sons of God but it has not yet been made complete. We are children of God as long as we walk by the spirit, but if we deny and turn away then we no longer have the spirit and have fallen from our secure position."

Maybe just maybe these verses will help.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(1Pe 1:3)

since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
(1Pe 1:23)

for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
(Gal 3:26)

And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
(Gal 4:6)

Are you not born again? Have you received His Spirit? Do you cry Abba Father?
If so why do you say we have not yet been born again?

Oh and one more...For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
(Col 2:9-10)

 

[Kate913]

Kate 913 wrote "The word of God says that we are being saved. We can know that we have eternal life and are saved, but we must also know that it is only if we continue to walk by the spirit. We have not yet been born again, we have the power to become sons of God but it has not yet been made complete. We are children of God as long as we walk by the spirit, but if we deny and turn away then we no longer have the spirit and have fallen from our secure position."

Maybe just maybe these verses will help.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(1Pe 1:3)

since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
(1Pe 1:23)

for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
(Gal 3:26)

And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
(Gal 4:6)

Are you not born again? Have you received His Spirit? Do you cry Abba Father?
If so why do you say we have not yet been born again?

Oh and one more...For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
(Col 2:9-10)

You are only listening to part of things. I said we may know that we have eternal life and are saved, which means we know that we are born again, but also we know that we can fall and turn away from the living God and deny His gift of eternal life meaning that we can lose our sonship, the spirit, our birth. However you want to say it does not make it any less true, we are born again IF we continue in these things. We are sons as long as we have the spirit. As I've already said, what is working has not yet been made complete. We must continue to die to the old man and be born of the new. The old man will not be completely gone for us to no longer fight until we have finished the race and kept the Faith. Paul did not say that he had finished the race until he knew his death was near...how then can you?

Romans 8:15-17
15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Romans 8:23-25
23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

We have not yet been made perfect in Love because we have not finished the race. We know that we can decide to no longer walk in his Love and Kindness and we fear God because we know that his punishment is far greater then anything man could do to us.

1 John 4:18
18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Romans 11:22
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you,provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It is a continual repentance. Repentance only cleanses us of our past sins,

Do what? Then I guess we are under law. why do you people want to place yourself under law? We have to live in fear. not love.

therefore we must continually be in repentance, considering that the word says a righteous man falls seven times a day. His kindness leads us to repentance, but the word also says we must continue to walk in His Love and Kindness.
I wish you would read my posts to others above where I've already talked about some of the things your saying. I am not listening to the words of men, I assure you this teaching was brought about by longing to be taught of God and not wanting anything of myself to get in the way. The word of God speaks clearly, we just have to be willing to listen. The Truth works together. There are no verses more true then others. God does not contradict Himself. We cannot discount some verses and uplift others. The many warnings in scripture by the apostles and even Christ are there for a reason and that reason is to warn us.

Repentance means to change ones heart. You can not continue to repent. You only repent once. How can you continue to repent of something you already agree is sin, or already agree is your situation with God.

The problem is they want to make repent a religious word. and not take it literally.

 

[Kate913]

Kate 913 wrote "The word of God says that we are being saved. We can know that we have eternal life and are saved, but we must also know that it is only if we continue to walk by the spirit. We have not yet been born again, we have the power to become sons of God but it has not yet been made complete. We are children of God as long as we walk by the spirit, but if we deny and turn away then we no longer have the spirit and have fallen from our secure position."

Maybe just maybe these verses will help.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
(1Pe 1:3)

since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding word of God;
(1Pe 1:23)

for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
(Gal 3:26)

And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"
(Gal 4:6)

Are you not born again? Have you received His Spirit? Do you cry Abba Father?
If so why do you say we have not yet been born again?

Oh and one more...For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily, and you have been filled in him, who is the head of all rule and authority.
(Col 2:9-10)

Crossnote, I would like to apologize if this statement threw you off. I now see by reading it and looking at the scriptures that it may not be perfect to word it in that way. We have been born to the new man if we walk in obedience to God, but we must be sure that we do not let our fervor for the Lord die out and begin living again to the sinful nature. For until we die the old man is still at battle with the Spirit of Christ within us and if we are not on guard our old man will win the battle. May the Lord give us eyes to see and ears to hear.
with the Love of Christ,
Kate

 

[Kate913]

Do what? Then I guess we are under law. why do you people want to place yourself under law? We have to live in fear. not love.



Repentance means to change ones heart. You can not continue to repent. You only repent once. How can you continue to repent of something you already agree is sin, or already agree is your situation with God.

The problem is they want to make repent a religious word. and not take it literally.

2 Peter 1:5-9
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.

We must be in continual repentance, moment by moment so that we may be cleansed. Many teach past, present and future, but as you can see scripture teaches only cleansing from past sins.

Romans 2:4
4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

Romans 11:22
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

We are supposed to continue in His kindness or we will be cut off. His kindness lead us to repentance. There for continuing in His kindness would cause us to be in continual repentance to God.

 

[GreenNnice]

Crossnote, I would like to apologize if this statement threw you off. I now see by reading it and looking at the scriptures that it may not be perfect to word it in that way. We have been born to the new man if we walk in obedience to God, but we must be sure that we do not let our fervor for the Lord die out and begin living again to the sinful nature. For until we die the old man is still at battle with the Spirit of Christ within us and if we are not on guard our old man will win the battle. May the Lord give us eyes to see and ears to hear.
with the Love of Christ,
Kate

and walking in obedience to God is having faith just like the father had for his prodigal son, well-said,, K8, and, sincerely so.

people get this idea that the old man leaves us for good after the Lord's drawing leads us to righteousness (right standing with God) and we become a new creation.No!
Though we have His Spirit born into us, we still have the flesh of sin inside our body but with the Lord's leading by His Spirit through OUR faith in Him we will LIVE in His grace and by His power to overcome (yes, repenting and forgiveness are helping Him contiNue to complete a work in us until we die and gain life or Jesus comes again. )
just like John tells us in Revelation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We must be in continual repentance, moment by moment so that we may be cleansed. Many teach past, present and future, but as you can see scripture teaches only cleansing from past sins.

So eternal life (meaning Life forever) speaks only of past sin? And is not eternal at all?? WHy did even Christ call this new life we have in him eternal if it is not so?

So when jesus said that whoever believes in him will NEVER DIE, NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST. He meant just in the past. not in the future?

So when Paul says we are sealed with the HS of promise, who guarantees our inheritiance (salvation) until the day of redemption. he meant only some past day? and not the future day of redemption we place our hope in, whihc is why we place our faith in Christ in the first place?

You mean we are under law still? that grace is just for past sin, but all future sin must be done according to the law? You better get out your animal sacrifices.

I could go on and on. Scripture does not teach what you claim. Only if we take a few small verses out of context. Scripture can not contradict itself.

We are supposed to continue in His kindness or we will be cut off. His kindness lead us to repentance. There for continuing in His kindness would cause us to be in continual repentance to God.

No, His kindness and love shows us his true nature. The more we learn about it, the more mature, the more we grow (instead of remaining babes) and the more sanctified we become.

But as Scripture says, he has perfected forever (again that word forever) those who are being sanctified.

If I am perfected forever. I am saved forever. I thus walk towards sanctification, which is growing in him. Which is not what your talking about. Your talking about men working by continually doing these works. maintaining our salvation by these works. Thus your trusting in your ability to save yourself by some rules system. and not trusting in Christ who did all the work to save you.

In other words. You still have not repented the first time. Your still trying to save yourself. Your faith thus is in yourself and not God. Repent, and put it all in his hands. Only he can save you.. if your looking at self. Your not relying on God.

 

[GreenNnice]

So eternal life (meaning Life forever) speaks only of past sin? And is not eternal at all?? WHy did even Christ call this new life we have in him eternal if it is not so?

So when jesus said that whoever believes in him will NEVER DIE, NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST. He meant just in the past. not in the future?

So when Paul says we are sealed with the HS of promise, who guarantees our inheritiance (salvation) until the day of redemption. he meant only some past day? and not the future day of redemption we place our hope in, whihc is why we place our faith in Christ in the first place?

You mean we are under law still? that grace is just for past sin, but all future sin must be done according to the law? You better get out your animal sacrifices.

I could go on and on. Scripture does not teach what you claim. Only if we take a few small verses out of context. Scripture can not contradict itself.



No, His kindness and love shows us his true nature. The more we learn about it, the more mature, the more we grow (instead of remaining babes) and the more sanctified we become.

But as Scripture says, he has perfected forever (again that word forever) those who are being sanctified.

If I am perfected forever. I am saved forever. I thus walk towards sanctification, which is growing in him. Which is not what your talking about. Your talking about men working by continually doing these works. maintaining our salvation by these works. Thus your trusting in your ability to save yourself by some rules system. and not trusting in Christ who did all the work to save you.

In other words. You still have not repented the first time. Your still trying to save yourself. Your faith thus is in yourself and not God. Repent, and put it all in his hands. Only he can save you.. if your looking at self. Your not relying on God.

Why would you be saved forever if you are perfected forever.

Being sanctified? We are sanctified when we lay our burdens down at the cross and follow Him.

Why do you make God's salvation so complicated?

Sanctification is the process of God renewing His Spirit in us.

It comes RIGHT after justification, in an instant!, the moment once hears by faith and the Spirit is received.

You are to then DO whatever you do to the glory of God, this is the glorification processs, but we are NOT glorified until the end of our life on Earth. At that time, whether it's Jesus coming again or just dying and gaining Christ, we THEN get our glorified body

Justification (happens at repentance), sanctification (being set apart, made holy) happens when the (HOLY) Spirit comes into our being the MOMENT! we have faith And, glorification is what we WORK toward until our time is up . To God be the glory, great things He hath done. The Scripture, 'Whatever YOU do, do it all to the glory of God' is powerful, indeed. And, YOU will, eg, IF you are living by faith in Him (Philippians 3: 8,9) . YOU will receive the gaining of Christ unto you for salvation for YOUR faith in Him, which is gained the MOMENT you have faith in HIm, the Holy Spirit ENTERS your temple.

Some do NOT know that the Holy Spirit is IN their temple (body) after they are saved and have salvation but the Lord, in His great mystery of godliness, keeps working on that believer and revealing Himself unto them, baptizing them in His love, mercy, grace, for 'such a time as that.' Me, speaking, just a little twist on Queen Esther's words

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why would you be saved forever if you are perfected forever.

Your joking right? If we are perfected. we are saved based on that perfection. If we are perfected forever. we are saved forever.

Being sanctified? We are sanctified when we lay our burdens down at the cross and follow Him.

Ok I agree. But this is not part of salvation. this happens as a result of salvation.

Why do you make God's salvation so complicated?

I am not making it complicated. I am showing what salvation is (perfected, also called justified or declared righteous) and sanctification, which happens after we are saved, it is people who try to combine the two and make salvation dependent on both which makes salvation complicated.

Sanctification is the process of God renewing His Spirit in us.

It comes RIGHT after justification, in an instant!, the moment once hears by faith and the Spirit is received.

There are two sanctification. We are positionally sanctified (set apart) in Christ the moment we are justified. We are conditionally sanctified depending on how mature we are in Christ. the corinthians were babes in Christ. Paul was mature in Christ, but even he said he continued to run the race. We will not be glorified (the time when our positional and conditional sanctification matches, ie we are sinless) until we get to heaven.

You are to then DO whatever you do to the glory of God, this is the glorification processs, but we are NOT glorified until the end of our life on Earth. At that time, whether it's Jesus coming again or just dying and gaining Christ, we THEN get our glorified body

Yes, And sanctification is everything inbetween justification and glorification.

Justification (happens at repentance), sanctification (being set apart, made holy) happens when the (HOLY) Spirit comes into our being the MOMENT! we have faith And, glorification is what we WORK toward until our time is up . To God be the glory, great things He hath done. The Scripture, 'Whatever YOU do, do it all to the glory of God' is powerful, indeed. And, YOU will, eg, IF you are living by faith in Him (Philippians 3: 8,9) . YOU will receive the gaining of Christ unto you for salvation for YOUR faith in Him, which is gained the MOMENT you have faith in HIm, the Holy Spirit ENTERS your temple.

Some do NOT know that the Holy Spirit is IN their temple (body) after they are saved and have salvation but the Lord, in His great mystery of godliness, keeps working on that believer and revealing Himself unto them, baptizing them in His love, mercy, grace, for 'such a time as that.' Me, speaking, just a little twist on Queen Esther's words

Again, Sanctification (sanctifying ourselves) is the period in our spiritual lives as we work towards glorification. They range in terms if babes in Christ, to spiritually mature adults in Christ. Most of us fall inbetween. But all of us ARE justified, and WILL BE glorified.

 

[Kate913]

So eternal life (meaning Life forever) speaks only of past sin? And is not eternal at all?? WHy did even Christ call this new life we have in him eternal if it is not so?

So when jesus said that whoever believes in him will NEVER DIE, NEVER HUNGER OR THIRST. He meant just in the past. not in the future?

So when Paul says we are sealed with the HS of promise, who guarantees our inheritiance (salvation) until the day of redemption. he meant only some past day? and not the future day of redemption we place our hope in, whihc is why we place our faith in Christ in the first place?

You mean we are under law still? that grace is just for past sin, but all future sin must be done according to the law? You better get out your animal sacrifices.

I could go on and on. Scripture does not teach what you claim. Only if we take a few small verses out of context. Scripture can not contradict itself.



No, His kindness and love shows us his true nature. The more we learn about it, the more mature, the more we grow (instead of remaining babes) and the more sanctified we become.

But as Scripture says, he has perfected forever (again that word forever) those who are being sanctified.

If I am perfected forever. I am saved forever. I thus walk towards sanctification, which is growing in him. Which is not what your talking about. Your talking about men working by continually doing these works. maintaining our salvation by these works. Thus your trusting in your ability to save yourself by some rules system. and not trusting in Christ who did all the work to save you.

In other words. You still have not repented the first time. Your still trying to save yourself. Your faith thus is in yourself and not God. Repent, and put it all in his hands. Only he can save you.. if your looking at self. Your not relying on God.

Eternally greatfull, I urge to humble yourself, for the very things that you have quoted that I have said and you have refuted are scripture! The word of God says we must continue in his kindness and it says his kindness leads us to repentance. The word of God says this! I gave you the verses so that you could see for yourself that this is Truth and not my own words. It is you who is not listening to the word of God. I have come to you lovingly and every time showing you the scripture, but God's own words have not convicted you. Humble yourself, let Him show you. We have not attained to anything as we ought and if we will not allow Him to show us these things then we will not continue to grow up into the fullness of Christ. You are no longer disagreeing with me, but your argument is with God as it is His words that you are refuting, not mine. I have said nothing outside of the verses that I quoted to you and if you had read them you would have seen that. God's word does not contradict itself, it is all Truth I have said this many times and have shown scripture. I want you to see that this is a very serious warning, for if you do not allow the word of God to be right and stop holding to what you think and trying to make sense of things by your own effort then I fear that you will believe that you have already attained to something that you have not. As the scripture says, I urge you to watch your life and doctrine closely, test to see whether you are in the Faith. It is not fleshly works in anyway to say that we must do the very things that scripture warns and urges us to do. I have shown many scriptures that say what we should do and how we should be and act, none of which were of the law, but rather a life by the Spirit. Once again, that is the word of God and it seems that your fault finding is not in my words, but His. I pray that we may reason the word together as scripture says. Not claiming to know anything but His words and letting God speak through His word rather then thinking that our explanations are needed.
Sincerely,
with the Love of Christ,
Kate