B
Batman007
Guest
Come back when you can carry on a cognizant conversation...
Haha I like you, Bowman
Come back when you can carry on a cognizant conversation...
Science does not have a political or social agenda.Fair enough.
"There's not hope at all." Hope for what?
I don't know if this life is all there is. I don't have any idea. I'm guessing that when we die that's it, we're just dead, just like it was before we lived. However, I am interested in reincarnation. Before I was born I... well... I have no idea what anything was like. I have no memory of anything before the age of probably 2 or 3, at least no cognitive memory. All I know is I came to be, a living, thinking individual. I was born. I have thoughts, I am me, I am a person. If this happened once, whose to say it wouldn't happen again. If time continues when we aren't alive - which I'm not sure it does or doesn't - then we may come to be again sometime in the future.
I could buy into that. I'm not going to base my life around it but I could see it as being a possibility. However, I have no evidence that such a thing happens. I have no evidence that suggests anything happens after we die, so I assume that nothing happens.
People say that's scary, that they prefer believing that there is a heaven. Sure, heaven is a nice thought. It's comforting, it's safe. It makes saying goodbye to loved ones easier and it makes the idea of ones own demise easier. However, that doesn't make it real. Even if I would rather believe in a heaven, I just don't.
Here's the thing about science; it's not correct about everything. No scientist will say "science has never gotten anything wrong". Science is constantly disproving claims in order to further identify the truth. Getting things wrong is a huge part of science, that's how we learn more. We test and experiment and destroy hypothesis' all the time. There is no faith in science. Faith is "belief and trust in the existence, power, and benevolence of a supreme being." Science and religion are two very different things. That's why we have scientists who are religious.
So why does science get brought up all the time when talking to atheists? I'm not really sure. It's been conditioned that they're one in the same, but they're not. Science is a very broad field of study with tons of subgroups. Science does not equal evolution, which I think - correct me if I'm wrong - you're mixing up. Not all atheists buy into the theory of evolution and many religious people do. I do, but that's not why I'm an atheist.
And let me just say this, although you probably won't believe me: not all scientists are socialists, and even less want to make the US a communist country. In fact, I have never met a single scientist who was either of those things (although there are probably plenty of socialist scientists in socialist countries and communist scientists in communist countries, but that's any person anywhere you go). Science does not have a political or social agenda. SCIENTISTS might, individual scientists who have their opinion like anybody else, but science is not an entity. It does not think or feel or have an agenda. Science is a field of study used to gather evidence, observe, and discover laws. Whatever results come from that are up to the individual to interpret.
As far as what you said about global warming: if you're right and they found out it's a myth (which I don't think you're correct about but I haven't read up on it lately), do you know who would have discovered the science was wrong? Scientists.
Science does not have a political or social agenda.
Because scientist depend, to a great extent, on government funding, they are greatly influenced by politics. They must justify their continued studies, by discovering things the politicians will support. Otherwise, there is no job security in studying these matters.
I'm glad there's no reincarnation. Mortal life is tough. Of course being only 18, you wouldn't have any knowledge of that.
Having a fractured vertebrae in my neck and two in my lower back, two crippled knees, high blood pressure, heart trouble, MRSA, the loss of my first wife, not living at home with my family, for fear that I may infect my wife and son, living on workers comp, I'd hate to think there's going to be a second time around.
But, because I have faith, I have hope.
It was after 911, that I began studying geopolitical events, and Islamic writings. I then reflected on my childhood teaching in the church, and started reading the Bible, for the first time. It is remarkable how all things today were foretold in the scriptures. Having a logical mine; (I graduated number one in my class at OSU Tech 30 years ago, and had the top score in algebra and physics, and tutored both), I came to the conclusion that it is mathematically impossible, for any book of prophecy written 2,000 years ago, to be so accurate without divine inspiration. Therefore, I was compelled to believe. The vision I had, shortly after my salvation, along with the changes in my life, all confirm my belief.
Praying for you
Well, yeah some do, others research through universities. However, like I said science uncovers evidence to form laws and develop theories. It's up to the individual to interpret.
"Of course being only 18, you wouldn't have any knowledge of that."
With all due respect, you don't know me AT ALL. You have NO idea what I've been through. My life has been short but it hasn't been easy. There will be more challenges to face, perhaps my greatest challenges have yet to come, but that doesn't mean I know nothing of the world. Please, don't discredit me for my age, but for what I have to offer. I have a lot of experiences, none of which you know. I don't judge you, don't judge me.
I still don't get what this hope is. Hope for what?
That's cool. I'm glad that you found some way to find meaning in your life! I think that's very important.
Batman, you have an excellent logical mind but you are using it without learning how God thinks. If God created the world, you, and how the world operates, then the most brilliant mind can't be trusted if it doesn't take that into consideration.
You don't decide what god to follow through voting on it, but by using that wonderful mind of yours, and by something you would find out about called the Holy Spirit. Look at the culture and people of followers of different gods. Christians made a lot of mistakes, look to see if it was following God that caused them, or following what some man thought. America's beginning is an example of doing the best they could to follow God. Most of the nations who have people in great need follow other Gods.
I don't know if this life is all there is. I don't have any idea. I'm guessing that when we die that's it, we're just dead, just like it was before we lived.
That's what hope is all about. Hope is that you are wrong. Hope is that there is more to life. Hope is that when Jesus returns, I will be counted worthy as one of His elect, to inherit eternal life. Without faith, there is no hope. And, we are as you said; "just dead", or worse.
Sense the Bible prophecies, both OT and NT have all been accurate to this point in time, it would be foolish to think, those prophecies, yet to be fulfilled, will not likewise be accurate. And sense it is written that there is a heaven and a hell, that the only path to escape eternal death is through Christ Jesus, it is foolish not to believe. If this is wrong thinking, what danger does it pose if we believe. If you were to be correct and we are "just dead", no harm is done. But because you are not correct, I have hope.
I do pity and pray for all who, like you, have no hope. This is the message I have been trying to impress, each time I end my communications with you. Praying for you
I'm sorry you think I broke your heart
I know a lot of atheists who, like you, hope I am wrong. Again I understand how the idea of no afterlife is frightening. I, personally, think it's rather peaceful. It's not like you'll mind once you're dead, because you have no emotions or thoughts. You simply cease to exist. I just think that makes life all the more beautiful.
Well I haven't looked into the prophecies of the bible so I can't say anything there.
Hey, I might very well be wrong. I won't know until I die, and if I'm right I guess I'll never know because by then I won't be able to form any thoughts.
You can pray for me. A lot of atheists get offended by that but I know that you do it out of kindness (at least I hope so), so I don't. I don't think it will do anything, but if it makes you feel better by all means!
Hey, I might very well be wrong. I won't know until I die The lake of fire awaits the unsaved.
Well I haven't looked into the prophecies of the bible so I can't say anything there. Check them out. Compare historic and current events to the forecast written so many thousand years ago. They are more accurate than the weather channel.
How many Jews do you know that call on the name of Jesus as Lord & Savior?
That's right...
Obviously, the Christians surrounding you have made an impression. Otherwise you would not be seeking answers on this forum.Well, according to your religion I'm going to hell. According to an uncountable number of others, you and I are both going to hell. According to many OTHERS, we're both going to heaven. Or we'll be reincarnated. Or we'll be ghosts. Or we'll be in purgatory.
Besides, fear of hell isn't very well a good reason to join a religion, is it?
I probably will look at them one day. Forgive me if that day isn't today, though, because I could go on an Islamic site and they will tell me the exact same thing about the Koran. Any religion can say "if you just look at this you'll see it as truth", I see Christianity as no different from any other religion.
Well, that's not entirely true. Christianity is more prevalent in my life than any other religion because I'm surrounded by Christians. From a theological point of view they're all the same.
Obviously, the Christians surrounding you have made an impression. Otherwise you would not be seeking answers on this forum.
Besides, fear of hell isn't very well a good reason to join a religion, is it? The second verse of "Amazing Grace" speaks to this; "T'is grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved." And it is written in Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." When I was in your lost condition, it was the fear of Gods righteous judgment that caused me to wise up.
I know how difficult it is to admit you are wrong, and to humble yourself, and realize all you know is foolishness to God. Proverbs also speaks to this; Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Perhaps fear is not a good motivator for an 18 year old. I wish I were 18 again. I knew everything then. I wasn't afraid of death or anything else. The world was my oyster. I know love is not a good motivator. When you're 18 love equals sex. So if I speak of real love, the kind of love that would cause a man to die, in order to save a bunch of people he doesn't even know; or the kind of love His Father has for someone like me, to allow this to take place, it would be senseless to an 18 year old. You will have to forgive me. Many years have past sense I was 18. I forget how much more I knew then, and how foolish older people like me truly are.
But there is hell, and because I love you, I do not wish it for you.
There is faith, hope and love. This is why I'm Praying for you
Ok, I'm sorry in advance but I have to say this: you're being really rude.
You're being extremely judgmental. When did I ever say that I was right, that I know everything? I JUST said, two posts ago, "I might very well be wrong.". Do you even read or care what I have to say? Why are you talking to me if you're going to put words in my mouth and ignore what I write? You keep ignoring anything I tell you (after, might I add, you ASK me to tell you) and say "well you're only 18. When I was 18 I thought I knew everything, too". Why are you talking to someone so inferior?
I don't think you're foolish at all, either. Again, you're putting words in my mouth.
I seriously doubt there is a hell. You believe it's real, but I don't. I think it's a fictional, made up place. Therefore I am not at all scared of it. At all. You can keep using it to try and convert me, but it's futile because I just don't think such a place exists.
Only Christians and children go to heaven. God corrected me on that.
Obviously, the Christians surrounding you have made an impression. Otherwise you would not be seeking answers on this forum.
Besides, fear of hell isn't very well a good reason to join a religion, is it? The second verse of "Amazing Grace" speaks to this; "T'is grace that taught my heart to fear, and grace my fears relieved." And it is written in Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding." When I was in your lost condition, it was the fear of Gods righteous judgment that caused me to wise up.
I know how difficult it is to admit you are wrong, and to humble yourself, and realize all you know is foolishness to God. Proverbs also speaks to this; Proverbs 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Perhaps fear is not a good motivator for an 18 year old. I wish I were 18 again. I knew everything then. I wasn't afraid of death or anything else. The world was my oyster. I know love is not a good motivator. When you're 18 love equals sex. So if I speak of real love, the kind of love that would cause a man to die, in order to save a bunch of people he doesn't even know; or the kind of love His Father has for someone like me, to allow this to take place, it would be senseless to an 18 year old. You will have to forgive me. Many years have past sense I was 18. I forget how much more I knew then, and how foolish older people like me truly are.
But there is hell, and because I love you, I do not wish it for you.
There is faith, hope and love. This is why I'm Praying for you
You are confusing discernment with judgement. Because I have been exactly where you are now, I have the ability to discern things about young 18 year old lost people quite accurately. And the tune of your reply, to me seems to confirm, that my discernment is again quite accurate.Ok, I'm sorry in advance but I have to say this: you're being really rude.
You're being extremely judgmental. When did I ever say that I was right, that I know everything? I JUST said, two posts ago, "I might very well be wrong.". Do you even read or care what I have to say? Why are you talking to me if you're going to put words in my mouth and ignore what I write? You keep ignoring anything I tell you (after, might I add, you ASK me to tell you) and say "well you're only 18. When I was 18 I thought I knew everything, too". Why are you talking to someone so inferior?
I don't think you're foolish at all, either. Again, you're putting words in my mouth.
I seriously doubt there is a hell. You believe it's real, but I don't. I think it's a fictional, made up place. Therefore I am not at all scared of it. At all. You can keep using it to try and convert me, but it's futile because I just don't think such a place exists.
Gosh, I missed a lot these last few days.
Bat, don't stop searching. I was in your boat about hell a long time ago. Here's the scoop....everything anyone says to you right now is going to seem like foolishness. It actually says that in the bible.
Your first step towards faith is belief in God...one God. Have you read any Lee Stoebel books? He was an atheist lawyer who set out to write a book disproving Christianity. You might pick one up.
I will add you to my prayers if it does not offend you.
Blooming_Violet
You are confusing discernment with judgement. Because I have been exactly where you are now, I have the ability to discern things about young 18 year old lost people quite accurately. And the tune of your reply, to me seems to confirm, that my discernment is again quite accurate.
I seriously doubt there is a hell. You believe it's real, but I don't. I think it's a fictional, made up place. Therefore I am not at all scared of it. At all. You can keep using it to try and convert me, but it's futile because I just don't think such a place exists.
I promise I will not try to persuade you any more. This will be my last communication with you.
Praying for you