Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

Geometar · Feb 1, 2013

Yes,2000years of mistake,interesting opinion.Church is given to Saints,to keep her and protect,with God greates help,and they did that,until present days.But u have no knowledge of what was in the past,how could u when your history started befor only 500years.Time of Holy Fathers is unknown to u,u denie them and u denie all the Saints and Martyrs,who shall judge under the Heavenly Throne.U denie life in Christ,u support death.For u,Saints are dead,not alive.Your spiritual eyes are wide shut,they cannot see anything.That u somehow heard who was Arie and Nestorie,u would read how great struggle of Holy Fathers were against them!But not as u think,by murdering and jailing,Orthodox Church never did that,nor it is impossible,but every time Orthodox were murdered on by heretics!Do not equal Orthodox Church with Roman Catholic fight against Protestants,because they didn't existed here.Such big heresy came out from even greatest heresy of all in the past,which was scary as fall of Adam and betray of Judas!West had no help of the Holy Spirit,because He left them,and Protestants couldn't be deffeted by sword,because heresy only can be deffeted by words of TRUTH,which was only weapon of Holy Fathers!
There are no doubt,anathema is over West.

zone · Feb 1, 2013

Geometar said:

Apotheosis (from Greek ἀποθέωσις from ἀποθεοῦν, apotheoun "to deify"; in Latin deificatio "making divine"; also called divinization and deification) is the glorification of a subject to divine level. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre.

In theology, the term apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature. In art, the term refers to the treatment of any subject (a figure, group, locale, motif, convention or melody) in a particularly grand or exalted manner.

In Eastern Christianity
Christian theology traditionally makes a distinction between "theosis" and "apotheosis". Orthodox Trinitarian Christianity views Jesus Christ as the preexisting God who undertook mortal existence, not a mortal being who attained divinity. Regarding human beings, the mystical theology of the Eastern Orthodox churches and Eastern Catholic churches characteristically describes the situation as "theosis", a Greek word.

Apotheosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

zone · Feb 1, 2013

zone said:

Apotheosis (from Greek ἀποθέωσις from ἀποθεοῦν, apotheoun "to deify"; in Latin deificatio "making divine"; also called divinization and deification) is the glorification of a subject to divine level. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre.

In theology, the term apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature. In art, the term refers to the treatment of any subject (a figure, group, locale, motif, convention or melody) in a particularly grand or exalted manner.

In Eastern Christianity
Christian theology traditionally makes a distinction between "theosis" and "apotheosis". Orthodox Trinitarian Christianity views Jesus Christ as the preexisting God who undertook mortal existence, not a mortal being who attained divinity. Regarding human beings, the mystical theology of the Eastern Orthodox churches and Eastern Catholic churches characteristically describes the situation as "theosis", a Greek word.

Apotheosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

looks like the Eastern churches have no problem with OSAS - looks like they are being deified.
like the Mormons

Geometar · Feb 1, 2013

What Orthodox Church have with that OSAS?I never heard for them.

Tan · Feb 1, 2013

Are people to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure? Again people are quick to run to the Apostle Paul’s writing, grabbing a couple of verse that preachers have grossly mistaught. And they have built a false teaching regarding “once saved always saved”. Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved. Thus the teaching “once saved always saved”. Then you asked them what are you saved from? Or how did you obtain your salvation? And most cannot answer these questions. Some even say that sense I have been “saved” I am living a sinless life. (1John:1:10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. According to bible you can’t be living a sinless life, because if you make such a statement, you just lied.

homwardbound · Feb 2, 2013

Tan said:

No one of the flesh can make that statement well they can but not in flesh for anything of the flesh is sin, I serve the law of sin and death with my flesh, but I serve the law of God with the hidden man of my heart. So where do i want to be at all the time serving the law of God with the hidden man of my heart and how will , you or anyone attain that? By belief!!!!
not ever by works of the flesh only by the works of the Holly Ghost that hidden man of ones heart that is implanted in you the believer the first day of beleif (Eph 1:13) from here it is us learning from God by this Holy Spirit of promise which God provides to the ones that want to know God personally without any other motive

homwardbound · Feb 2, 2013

Tan said:

Are people to believe that as soon as we accept Jesus in our lives that our salvation is secure? Again people are quick to run to the Apostle Paul’s writing, grabbing a couple of verse that preachers have grossly mistaught. And they have built a false teaching regarding “once saved always saved”. Just as you freely accepted Jesus in your life you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. People are being taught that once you are quote “saved” that you can never fall to the spiritually lost condition. This is not true and totally unbiblical; this teaching is a damnable heresy brought in by man. To teach someone that all they have to do is believe on Christ and you are saved is a doctrine of the devil. Many who teach eternal security teach that once a man is saved no matter how wicked he becomes he is still saved. Thus the teaching “once saved always saved”. Then you asked them what are you saved from? Or how did you obtain your salvation? And most cannot answer these questions. Some even say that sense I have been “saved” I am living a sinless life. (1John:1:10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. According to bible you can’t be living a sinless life, because if you make such a statement, you just lied.

Oh and then guess what you will endure to the end and will know you are secure in him, God has shown you this in you, and therefore I can say noone will ever snatch me out of his hand, no weapon formed against shall ever prosper, Since God is for me who can be against me, greater is he (GOD) that is in me than he that is in the world

Crossfire · Feb 2, 2013

While scripture does speak of "eternal security", never once does it state that such security is unconditional. Yes, our salvation does indeed rest entirely on the work of Christ and not human effort. However, many seem to overlook the nature of faith.

"According to your faith be it unto you..." (Matthew 9:29)

Each of us receives a measure of faith at the moment of salvation. Scripture clearly states that such faith can either grow or wither and die. It is entirely possible for some to reach a point in their relationship with Christ (spiritual maturity) to believe that salvation may never be taken from them (as scripture does indeed imply) however, others may not have reached such a place of security in faith. That does not make such a person any less saved nor does it suggest that they believe in false doctrine. It simply means that there is room for their faith to grow.

"But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him. But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." (Hebrews 10:38-39)

Salvation is indeed eternally secure for those that God has given the faith to believe and understand. Remove faith and Eternal Security loses all integrity and is reduced to false doctrine which teaches that one can be saved from sin while still enslaved to sin.

Both faith and grace, mercy also, originated from God and are attributes (manifestations) of His divine love for us. They are separate yet inseparable. Unfortunately, some would lead you to believe that faith is but an attribute of grace although the Bible itself never states such a thing, rather "we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH not of good works lest any man should boast..." (Ephesians 2:8-9)

You see, it is because of our faith in Christ and His Word that we can have full assurance of our salvation for "faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." (Hebrews 10:17)

Keeping that in mind, "let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water." (Hebrews 10:22)

Geometar · Feb 2, 2013

Ok,who is coming from Protestant side here?Please,answer me.

PS · Feb 2, 2013

Geometar said:

I'm Evangelical Protestant and Charismatic. Just so you know for future reference.

Geometar · Feb 2, 2013

Ok,who alse coming from Protestant side?

Tan · Feb 2, 2013

homwardbound said:

What works is Paul talking about that you quoted. Keep in mind, God had Peter to clearly warn you about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now you need to take heed to this warning, you can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on one or two verse out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

Tan · Feb 2, 2013

homwardbound said:

Sounds like good talk, but one must do as Jesus said in Matthew 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Every word includes the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week (saturday) Jesus said in Matthew 19: 16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
.

homwardbound · Feb 2, 2013

Tan said:

Thanks appreciate your admonition I take the whole Bible as a whole and it is a love story to all that receive truth and when in receiving it they are careful and weigh out everything through the Holy Ghost that teaches you all truth and it is not him it is of Christ and Father. I am as like Paul I am crucified never the less I live

homwardbound · Feb 2, 2013

Tan said:

Brother and Jesus responded to the disciples with after they asked when this man walked away very sad for his riches were more important, they asked wait a minute Jesus how is it possible for anyone to enter the kingdom. He replied WITH MAN IT IS IMPOSSIBLE / BUT WITH GOD ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE! And this was before the crucifixtion of Christ while under the law (before the new covenant ever took place) and that is what made it possible for all that believe is the new covenant of God through Christ, but understand this in order to see truth in the freedom offered by God under the new covenant one has to want to know God without any other motive than to know God personally. Any other motive(s) man is left up to his own interpretation and as you said goes unto their own destruction. All Matthew, mark, luke and John everything written there before the crucifixion before the death is and was under the Old Covenant Law and all that Jesus was doing was fullfilling Old Testament Matthew 5:17, then he proved himself filled all the Law and Prophets and then yelled IT IS FINISHED John 19:30 and gave up the Ghost and a new covenant came into play Hebrews 9:15-17 and thus we are no longer judged on the basis of sin and death for God through the finished work of his Son Jesus Christ seperated the punishment of death from sin so that we the ones that want to know Father reveals himself to those that have this motive and God knows who has this motive or not, then one gets to see this free gift of life everlasting and is so appreciative for it and thankful, praising Father on a constant basis that there is no time or thought to sin , because you have gotten so preoccupied with the new life and this is what God is lookng for all that actually want to know to start, not quit the old,start the new, when trying to quit the old one can't start the new, because there too busy trying to stop the old just as like the Jews in the Old Testament did under the Law under a curse
Homwardbound

Tan · Feb 4, 2013

homwardbound said:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Now, if the Jesus said think not that I came to destroy the law, lets reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law is still on the table and the prophets. Jesus couldn't destroy the prophet because he had to fulfilled all of what the prophets wrote about jesus and what he had to do.

First of all, lets understand that all is not fulfilled, lets look at this again...For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

Grandpa · Feb 4, 2013

Tan said:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

Now, if the Jesus said think not that I came to destroy the law, lets reason together, what do destroy mean; to take away, etc, right. So that simply means that the law is still on the table and the prophets. Jesus couldn't destroy the prophet because he had to fulfilled all of what the prophets wrote about jesus and what he had to do.

First of all, lets understand that all is not fulfilled, lets look at this again...For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14)

What more does the Lord Jesus Christ need to do in order that the Law and Prophets might be fulfilled???

My Grace is sufficient for thee...

Tan · Feb 5, 2013

Grandpa said:

Thats a good question I'll post a couple of things...Lets reread the verse For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Now, lets pay attention: is heaven and earth still here?

Lets look at the heaven and earth pass, lets go to Revelation 6 chapter

6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Brother and Sisters this has not happen yet

Lets go into: Revelation 21 chapter and continue 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Lets read what has not been fulfilled from the prophets Joel 2: [SUP]1[/SUP]Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
[SUP]2[/SUP]A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. [SUP]10[/SUP]The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

This is also the secomding coming of the Lord (Jesus ) Brothers and Sister

11 And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

Lets take look at another Prophet...the Prophets Zechariah 14: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[SUP]3[/SUP]Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[SUP]4[/SUP]And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
[SUP]5[/SUP]And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

So we see a few things happening...the first Earth and Heaven pass, the coming of the Lord, the saints coming with the Lord, the Lord's wrath

Grandpa · Feb 5, 2013

I won't argue with you that the earth is still here...

But the Lord Jesus Christ absolutely has fulfilled all the Law. You see, that is the exception in that verse, till all be fulfilled.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another:for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Has the Lord done that, loved others?

Romans 13:10 [SUP] [/SUP]Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You see, that was the fulfilling of the Law and the prophets, when God showed His Love for us by sacrificing His Son on our behalf.

Not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the Law. Meaning until the Law has performed its whole purpose of bringing everyone it was designed to bring to Christ it is still in effect. But once the Law has brought the person to Christ they are no longer under the Law. That is the purpose of the Law, to bring people to Christ.

The Lord Jesus has fulfilled the Law but not everyone has come to Him so that the Law might be fulfilled in them as well.

Otherwise what exactly do you think the Lord meant when He said "It is Finished"...?

homwardbound · Feb 6, 2013

Tan said:

And that is correct Matt 5:18 and not all is fullfilled for there are still the lost that have not received this truth and gotten victory over death it is all in the finished work of Christ Jesus at the cross where death occurred then the resurrection which is the victory and is waiting for all those that will receive truth and be freed from death as I and all that believe in Christ
[h=3]1 Corinthians 15:24-26[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. [SUP]25 [/SUP]For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.

Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

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