Can you Sin and Not Die?

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C

cfultz3

Guest
#61
#61
eternally-gratefull said:
true, and we agree.

But now can we agree they were never saved in the first place. Because as james said, they had mere belief, and not faith? because they have not repented? That they did not lose salvation. they never had it.
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But to say that they, those who believed in Christ, were never saved in the first place is to say that one cannot loose salvation.

Yet, we have Jesus saying that the one who denies Him, He will deny before the Father. He even says that the one who looks back from the plow is not fit for the Kingdom. They who choose to become a friend of this world do become enemies of God. Even our words can cause us to loose salvation. Just like Job's wife who looked back and lost her life, dare we return to the flesh?

My salvation is dependent upon continously following God's Spirit. If not, I am in the process of backsliding, and without hearkening to God and repenting, I shall continue walking contrary to God's way. But, while I was walking according to God's leading, my salvation was assured.

Adam and Eve had fellowship with God and lost it. Satan and the other fallen angels had fellowship with God and lost it. Wisdom, in speaking His words in Proverbs, tells us that we are to walk upright or face the consequences. Does He not say to His son to walk away from this and go not with those? Yet, our Lord further says, 'Come and follow me' and if we fall to temptation, sin is born, and if we repent not, are we yet still following Him on that path?

If I were being led by God, then certainly, I had salvation.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#62
#62
Why I cannot go to page 3, keeps going back to page 2?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#64
#64
cfultz3 said:
But to say that they, those who believed in Christ, were never saved in the first place is to say that one cannot loose salvation.
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It is to say;

that mere belief will never save you
That lack of true repentance will lead to lack of change, shown by lack of faith
that God knows a persons heart, and whether he truly trusts him or not.

To say one can lose salvation is to say salvation is dependent on us. And not God. No matter what part of life one says will cause one to lose salvation. saying it can cause it is to say the person must work to not do the thing which would cause separation. That makes salvation based on our work. and takes away from the work of God.

Yet, we have Jesus saying that the one who denies Him, He will deny before the Father. He even says that the one who looks back from the plow is not fit for the Kingdom. They who choose to become a friend of this world do become enemies of God. Even our words can cause us to loose salvation. Just like Job's wife who looked back and lost her life, dare we return to the flesh?
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Your twisting this.

1. One who denies Christ is an antichrist. John said they were never of us.
2. One who walks away is not fit for the kingdom. Thus he will suffer chastening if he is saved, And lose all the blessings God wants to give him. Experimentally. The guy is dead. why? he does not have access to his fathers blessings. If, However, the person who walked away was never saved to begin with. Then he never had or experienced gods blessings. so he will not know what he is missing. And he will not be chastened by God.

This is where the problem lies. who can judge if that person was saved or not? I can't can you? so how should we react to him? In both cases it would be in love. Not judgmental.

Lots wife lost her life. She sinned the sin unto death. Did she lose salvation? Scripture does not say this. That is the dangers of returning to the world. We risk hurting ourselves. God is a God of love is he not? Did your parents disown you becuase you sinned against them? if they would not. why would God. They told you (if they were truly loving) not to do something because they knew it would hurt you. God is no different. His commands or for our benefit. Not so he can rule over us.

My salvation is dependent upon continously following God's Spirit. If not, I am in the process of backsliding, and without hearkening to God and repenting, I shall continue walking contrary to God's way. But, while I was walking according to God's leading, my salvation was assured.
Click to expand...
Your trusting self and your ability to do this. and Not God. why would you trust self and not God? what makes you any different than the pharisees? Just because you believe in Christ unlike them you think your different? You both trusting your ability to do what God says and obey the law (commands) and not placing your faith in Christ, who paid the price for your sin.

Secondly. As I have said over and over, If you looked at your life in Gods eyes. You would see you are not doing very good at walking in his ways, You would see the many times you fail, and how totally unworthy of Gods love you really are. In reality, only perfection can save us of our own ability. You did not reach that before you believed God, you will never reach it after. so up until the day you die, you will still be lost without the blood of Christ. You can NEVER be good enough to please god or earn anything. let alone be bad enough you can lose it. When God looks at us, he either sees his son. or he sees a wrethed man who has earned his righteous condemnation. there is no inbetween.

Adam and Eve had fellowship with God and lost it. Satan and the other fallen angels had fellowship with God and lost it.
Adam and Eve lost it by sin. They did not need grace before the fall. they were alive in God on their own merit. Once they sinned, they lost the ability to relate to god on their own merit. thus they, like us, needed a savior.

God showed them by covering their nakedness (sin) by killing an animal and shedding its blood. Without the shedding of blood. there can be no forgiveness.. Being good enough will not save you, we can;t do this. Only the shed blood of christ can wash our sin. To say anything else is to put Christ to shame.

Satan.. We can not comprehend what happened to him and why God did not offer his forgiveness, so will not go there.

Wisdom, in speaking His words in Proverbs, tells us that we are to walk upright or face the consequences. Does He not say to His son to walk away from this and go not with those? Yet, our Lord further says, 'Come and follow me' and if we fall to temptation, sin is born, and if we repent not, are we yet still following Him on that path?
Click to expand...

ALL sin brings about consequences. A drunk will suffer health problems. emotional problems. Rage or sever depression. And risks committing grave crimes in his drunkenness. Sexual sin causes severe emotional problems. Both can cause physical death (through disease or accidents)

The point is not that sin has consequences, it does. Thats why God said do this, this is better. Stay away from that.

The issue is how good is good enough? God said one sin brought the fall of mankind. So if one sin can do this, and we have sinned numerous times. how can we say we now, or ever, could be good enough to earn Gods love?

If I were being led by God, then certainly, I had salvation.
Click to expand...
Yet God says you can have it now. He never spoke in past tense.

You HAVE eternal life. YOU have been born again, YOU HAVE been justified freely, YOU HAVE been set free from the condemnation of sin.

If you say HAD. your faith again is in self not Christ. and I fear for your eternal soul!
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C

cfultz3

Guest
#65
#65
Abiding said:
ask a calvinist
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I don't know what you are trying to say, seeing I do not know much about isms, but I am sure you meant well, you loving Brother in Christ.
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#66
#66
cfultz3 said:
I don't know what you are trying to say, seeing I do not know much about isms, but I am sure you meant well, you loving Brother in Christ.
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I bet you know a lot about -isms. :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#67
#67
cfultz3 said:
I don't know what you are trying to say, seeing I do not know much about isms, but I am sure you meant well, you loving Brother in Christ.
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lets run from ISMS and stick to Gods word. ISMS is what makes so many fight anyway because we defend our ISM at all cost.

ISMs is from man not God.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#68
#68
cfultz3 said:
I don't know what you are trying to say, seeing I do not know much about isms, but I am sure you meant well, you loving Brother in Christ.
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you were predestined haha
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#69
#69
eternally-gratefull said:
It is to say;

that mere belief will never save you
That lack of true repentance will lead to lack of change, shown by lack of faith
that God knows a persons heart, and whether he truly trusts him or not.

To say one can lose salvation is to say salvation is dependent on us. And not God. No matter what part of life one says will cause one to lose salvation. saying it can cause it is to say the person must work to not do the thing which would cause separation. That makes salvation based on our work. and takes away from the work of God.



Your twisting this.

1. One who denies Christ is an antichrist. John said they were never of us.
2. One who walks away is not fit for the kingdom. Thus he will suffer chastening if he is saved, And lose all the blessings God wants to give him. Experimentally. The guy is dead. why? he does not have access to his fathers blessings. If, However, the person who walked away was never saved to begin with. Then he never had or experienced gods blessings. so he will not know what he is missing. And he will not be chastened by God.

This is where the problem lies. who can judge if that person was saved or not? I can't can you? so how should we react to him? In both cases it would be in love. Not judgmental.

Lots wife lost her life. She sinned the sin unto death. Did she lose salvation? Scripture does not say this. That is the dangers of returning to the world. We risk hurting ourselves. God is a God of love is he not? Did your parents disown you becuase you sinned against them? if they would not. why would God. They told you (if they were truly loving) not to do something because they knew it would hurt you. God is no different. His commands or for our benefit. Not so he can rule over us.



Your trusting self and your ability to do this. and Not God. why would you trust self and not God? what makes you any different than the pharisees? Just because you believe in Christ unlike them you think your different? You both trusting your ability to do what God says and obey the law (commands) and not placing your faith in Christ, who paid the price for your sin.

Secondly. As I have said over and over, If you looked at your life in Gods eyes. You would see you are not doing very good at walking in his ways, You would see the many times you fail, and how totally unworthy of Gods love you really are. In reality, only perfection can save us of our own ability. You did not reach that before you believed God, you will never reach it after. so up until the day you die, you will still be lost without the blood of Christ. You can NEVER be good enough to please god or earn anything. let alone be bad enough you can lose it. When God looks at us, he either sees his son. or he sees a wrethed man who has earned his righteous condemnation. there is no inbetween.

Adam and Eve had fellowship with God and lost it. Satan and the other fallen angels had fellowship with God and lost it.
Adam and Eve lost it by sin. They did not need grace before the fall. they were alive in God on their own merit. Once they sinned, they lost the ability to relate to god on their own merit. thus they, like us, needed a savior.

God showed them by covering their nakedness (sin) by killing an animal and shedding its blood. Without the shedding of blood. there can be no forgiveness.. Being good enough will not save you, we can;t do this. Only the shed blood of christ can wash our sin. To say anything else is to put Christ to shame.

Satan.. We can not comprehend what happened to him and why God did not offer his forgiveness, so will not go there.



ALL sin brings about consequences. A drunk will suffer health problems. emotional problems. Rage or sever depression. And risks committing grave crimes in his drunkenness. Sexual sin causes severe emotional problems. Both can cause physical death (through disease or accidents)

The point is not that sin has consequences, it does. Thats why God said do this, this is better. Stay away from that.

The issue is how good is good enough? God said one sin brought the fall of mankind. So if one sin can do this, and we have sinned numerous times. how can we say we now, or ever, could be good enough to earn Gods love?



Yet God says you can have it now. He never spoke in past tense.

You HAVE eternal life. YOU have been born again, YOU HAVE been justified freely, YOU HAVE been set free from the condemnation of sin.

If you say HAD. your faith again is in self not Christ. and I fear for your eternal soul!
Click to expand...
I don't know where to begin with this thesis.....
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E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#71
#71
cfultz3 said:
I don't know where to begin with this thesis.....
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an open mind, and trying to see where i am coming from. and not seeing i am judging you in any way. for if you look at it that way, you will defend yourself and not be able to see what i am saying.

If you do not understand something I said, ask.

if you disagree, say why so we can discuss it in the ole bible discussion forum ;)
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#72
#72
eternally-gratefull said:
lets run from ISMS and stick to Gods word. ISMS is what makes so many fight anyway because we defend our ISM at all cost.

ISMs is from man not God.
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I would be willing to bet you believe in Creationism, or say, Congregationalism. These words are just titles for a belief. If you want to refuse the title, have at it. The rest of us who know the titles, will know that Dispensationalism is what it is regardless of it's title or lack thereof.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#74
#74
jimmydiggs said:
I would be willing to bet you believe in Creationism,
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Nope. I believe God created the heavens and the earth. Although I might agree with some of the "ISMS" that creationalism (a doctrin formulated by men) teaches. it does not mean I got my belief from those isms. or words of men.

or say, Congregationalism.
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Nope. I believe God has a body of believers, not a congregation.

These words are just titles for a belief. If you want to refuse the title, have at it. The rest of us who know the titles, will know that Dispensationalism is what it is regardless of it's title or lack thereof.
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Nope. you don't even know this. You assume all dispensationalists believe the same thing, and get their beliefs from the same core. Which is not true in the least. You prove it by saying I believe things which are not true. Which is the danger of ISMS. An arminialists will fight agains OSAS because they are fighting an ism. so they will say all people who believe in OSAS believe in cheap or a licentious grace. so they must be a calvanist. The same goes the other way in many areas.

People who fight isms fight on what they are taught, they will defend their belief at all cost. even if they are blinded to what they are even fighting, They like to use words of men who lived hundreds of years ago. And say all our beliefs coem from them. it just depends on which man you follow. which is a dangerous false truth.

If we stopped defending our isms. We could talk and discuss Gods word. and we would not be so separated.

we see it every day in here!
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#78
#78
[video=youtube;J9UfRQUf64U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=J9UfRQUf64U[/video]
 
J

jimmydiggs

Guest
#79
#79
cfultz3 said:
If I went to that sort of Church, I would have said, 'Yes. That is my denomination'. But, again, I have no interest in the isms which so often would have all others damned.
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A man who refuses to acknowledge his traditions, is a slave to his traditions. Have it your way. I know some of your -isms, and you condemn yourself when you condemn others.
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
#80
#80
jimmydiggs said:
A man who refuses to acknowledge his traditions, is a slave to his traditions. Have it your way. I know some of your -isms, and you condemn yourself when you condemn others.
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My tradition: open the Bible and read it. And yes, Jimmy, I am a slave to that tradition. What you call isms is religion. What I call my belief is my faith which I have learned from Scripture and not some man cloaked in his church's clothing.

You are a man of learning, I am sure you know that many denominations condemn other denominations for not believing what they believe.
 
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