Faith and no works is dead.

[Rock022]

Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything; the only thing that counts is faith working through love.

Ephesians 4:12
to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ

Ephesians 4:16
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every ligament with which it is equipped, as each part is working properly, promotes the body’s growth in building itself up in love.

James 2

Faith without Works Is Dead

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and lacks daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and eat your fill,” and yet you do not supply their bodily needs, what is the good of that? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder. 20 Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that faith apart from works is barren?21 Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. 23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another road? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is also dead.


There is much scripture that shows us we must work, why do people still deny this? How much work must we do, we can never do too much. Jesus gave His life.

 

[JGPS]

Yeah but that's mostly from the book of James, and at one point in his life Luther didn't think James or Jude where actually scripture because it disagreed with him.

That's strong enough reason to ignore it isn't it?

 

[Tommy4Christ]

Good post on faith, here is an excellent teaching that goes into the works aspect of faith, its dynamic, alive, progressive and required by God to please Him, and endure and obey to the end, or else your faith is dead! Dig deep!

The Substance and Evidence of Faith!
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. Heb11:1
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.” Rom 1:17
The Law of Faith, Rom3:27
1) Faith Establishes and Upholds the Law of God! Rom3:31,
2) Faith Walks in Righteous Requirements of law, Rom8:1-4
3) Faith Circumcises the heart and WORKS by Love! Gal5:6, 6:15
4) The Law is NOT Abolished! Matt5:17-20
The Example of Faith, Abraham, Rom4:1-4
1) He Walked in the Steps of Faith, Rom4:12
2) He Did the Works/ Deeds of Faith, John8:39
3) He Performed the Obedience of Faith! Heb6:13-15, 10:35-36, 11:8
4) He was Declared Righteous by his Faith, Rom4:19-22
The Dynamic of Faith……The Obedient Heart of Love! Rom6
1) You OBEY from the heart, Rom6:16-17
2) You Receive Grace for Obedience to Faith! Rom1:5
3) Eternal Life given to those who OBEY! Heb5:9
4) You Endure to End by Faith
5) Purify your heart by Obedience, 1Pet1:22
Boasting of Works! (Hearers not Doers!)
1) The Boasting was in Keeping the Law outwardly, but not Inwardly, Rom2:17,23
2) Lest anyone Should Boast, Eph2;8-9, Is speaking of These kinds of Works (outwardly performed)
3) Purpose of Law not to Justify, but Expose the sin. Rom7:7-12, Gal3:19-25
4) Law Must be Upheld, but IN THE HEART! Heb8:10-11
The Works of Faith:
(not as to merely produce pious acts or religious form)
1) It Works to Produce GODLY Behavior! Titus2:11-14
2) It Works to PURIFY the heart of sin! 1Pet1:22, Acts15:9,
3) It Works to Produce the FRUIT of the Spirit! Eph5:9-10, Gal5:22-24
4) It Works as to remain Steadfast & Enduring to the end, Rom2:7
The Law of Faith uses the WORD of God to WORK in you who believe! Since you have OBEYED from the heart, as stated in scripture, with the full knowledge that Jesus has commanded you to OBEY Him (If you love Him) & Make every effort to Enter by the Narrow Gate, (Luke13:24, John14:15) You have effectively moved beyond the 'faith of devils' (Js2:19, the devils believe & tremble) into a Path of OBEDIENT Faith that will endure to the end!
The Work of Faith With Power! 2Thessd1:11
1) Working Together with Him, 2Cor6:1
2) Restored to True Holiness and Righteousness, Eph4:22-24
3) Walking in Power of His Might, Eph 6:10
4) Working Out Salvation! Phil2:11-12 (working to attain a goal!)
(to perform, accomplish, achieve, to work out i.e. to do that from which something results)
The Righteousness of Faith, Rom10:1-5 end of law for righteousness.

Doing the Right thing by Faith, 1John3:7-12)
Producing the Fruit of Righteousness, James3:13-18
Exceeding that of Scribes and Pharisees, Matt5:20
The More Excellent Sacrifice! Heb 11:4
The Romans 7 Lie: Rom7:14-25

Speaking of the Un-regenerate heart, Sold Under Sin, The Carnal Mind in Control.
Christian is Free from Bondage of Sin, Spiritual, not Carnal.
The law is Being Established, Upheld by Faith, not Violated Daily
Walking in Spirit, not Flesh.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. Rom8:1-4
Who is Fulfilling Righteous Requirements of law? Christ or YOU?
Who is Violating the Law daily in thought, word and deed?
The Hard Evidence: Rom 7:24
Paul uses another Very powerful illustration in the Word, ‘Captivity’. Here he is eluding to a city reduced by a storming army, who had laid Siege to the inhabitance, reduced them to starvation, launched their attack and carried off the survivors into an irresistible Captivity. The Word he uses is the EXACT same word Christ used to Describe the final ruin of the Jews under Roman dominance. When they would be carried away into captivity and their nation trampled by the Gentiles. (Luke21:24, 2Cor10:5)
The ‘Wretched man’ he refers to in Verse 24, ‘O wretched man that I am!” Is another illustration portraying what happens to the Roman Prisoners taken into bondage after the Siege. It was a custom among tyrants in those days to Chain the survivors to a Rotting Corpse from the battlefield and force him to carry the dead body about until he also died a slow and miserable death! (used in Rev3:17 to church)
NONE of this Language is used Anywhere in Scripture to Describe Christians!
How could you be Captive to sin, in this manner, and ‘sin’ not have Dominion over you?
Same Attempt Made in 1Tim1:15, “Chief of Sinners!”
But this Clearly Speaks of FORMER Times and the VERY Next Passage says his Life was a PATTERN to all believers. How could he be an example if he was sinning all the time?
NOTHING in Scripture Condones sinful conduct or assumes sin to be a foregone conclusion in the Believers life. Every attempt falls Flat when you examine the Facts!

www.standingthegap.org

 

[starfield]

Jesus also taught that faith without works (obedience) is dead.
Matt 7:16-27
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Paul taught that obedience is yielding to God.
Rom 6:12-22
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

John taught that the love of God will be perfected in them that obey.
1 John 2:3-6
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

One who professes faith in God but does not live in obedience to Him is only deceiving themselves.

 

[Rock022]

Jesus also taught that faith without works (obedience) is dead.
Matt 7:16-27
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Paul taught that obedience is yielding to God.
Rom 6:12-22
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

John taught that the love of God will be perfected in them that obey.
1 John 2:3-6
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

One who professes faith in God but does not live in obedience to Him is only deceiving themselves.

Faith and no works is dead. Works and no faith is dead. Faith and work with ought God's grace has to also be dead. The only reason I posted this is because too many preach here on CC that we only need faith, and rebuke works. Salvation by faith alone is a man made belief.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Loved this post but you might get some questions about salvation and living holy.

do you need to do works before you have faith to receive salvation?

 

[Rock022]

Loved this post but you might get some questions about salvation and living holy.

do you need to do works before you have faith to receive salvation?

They all go hand in hand, do not forget the grace of our Lord. You see some people may begin just doing good works and faith will come at its due time. Others have faith but do not do good works so this will also come in due time. Some people get both faith plus works straight from the beginning. It is trough God's grace we can do all this things, but we must do this things He has clearly asked of us. If you believe faith alone but came to realized works do have a say so, there will be a change of heart. A more obedient heart. If you truly need a good explanation I will post a link here where a protestant convert explains it maybe in a way some will actually get it.

Just click the listen button
Faith and Works | Catholic Answers < link

 

[starfield]

Faith and no works is dead. Works and no faith is dead. Faith and work with ought God's grace has to also be dead. The only reason I posted this is because too many preach here on CC that we only need faith, and rebuke works. Salvation by faith alone is a man made belief.

Perhaps you need to explain to them what exactly 'faith without works is dead' means.

Works such as participating in sacraments, baptismal regeneration, church attendance, giving alms, etc., do not save but faith in Jesus Christ alone. Those are some of the things some sects under Christianity do to attain salvation but they don't save because self-established righteousnesses are as filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6, Matt 5:20) and only the atonement of Christ can make one righteous. The bible says that everyone is born in sin, all we as sheep have gone astray, and thus none is good enough to get to heaven without salvation by faith in Christ hence Romans 3:23-24 says"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus". It is only through the redemptive power of Christ that one can one be declared righteous before God and be able to live righteously thereafter.

What did Jesus tell the rich young ruler and Nicodemus to do in order to be saved? He didn't tell them to get baptized first to be forgiven nor did He tell them to keep the law to be saved. The rich young ruler was a self-righteous citizen who professed to have kept the Ten Commandments from his youth yet he did not have eternal life that's why Jesus told him to sell his goods and follow Him. The Pharisee, Nicodemus, was clueless about how to get eternal life so Jesus' response to him was "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life". The Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved and their response was "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house". They did not tell him to get baptized first, participate in sacraments, etc., and then can he obtain salvation. All that was necessary was to believe in Jesus whose sacrifice is sufficient for forgiveness of sins and justification.

The genuine convert will then obey God out of love and reverence and will abstain from all appearances of evil by His grace, walk in the Spirit, and live in holiness by the power of God, that's what James meant as being the evidence/fruit of the new birth (faith that produces obedience that comes from God). Baptism will also be done in obedience to God after salvation.

 

[Rock022]

Did you read the first post?

 

[starfield]

Did you read the first post?

Yes I did and was just expounding on it.

 

[Rock022]

He didn't tell them to get baptized first to be forgiven nor did He tell them to keep the law to be saved. The rich young ruler was a self-righteous citizen who professed to have kept the Ten Commandments from his youth yet he did not have eternal life that's why Jesus told him to sell his goods and follow Him.

He did tell Nicodemus that he needed to be baptized, keep reading because Nicodemus is puzzled. How can a man re enter his mother and be born again? Then Jesus said to him that he needed to be born of water and spirit.

When Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, He was baptized by water and what happened right after Jesus came out of the water? The Holy Spirit came down in the "likeness" of a dove. Water and spirit just like Jesus.

The rich man was told to sell all his belongings why, because the rich man loved his belongings too much, they came first to him than Jesus.

Yes brother you have to work, we all have to work.

Here is another one that tells us how we are to work

Matthew 25 The ones that worked are saved the ones who did not worked did not get saved. [h=3]The Judgment of the Nations[/h][SUP]31 [/SUP]“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. [SUP]32 [/SUP]All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, [SUP]33 [/SUP]and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; [SUP]35 [/SUP]for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, [SUP]36 [/SUP]I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ [SUP]37 [/SUP]Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? [SUP]38 [/SUP]And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? [SUP]39 [/SUP]And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ [SUP]40 [/SUP]And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,[SUP][g][/SUP] you did it to me.’ [SUP]41 [/SUP]Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; [SUP]42 [/SUP]for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, [SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ [SUP]45 [/SUP]Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ [SUP]46 [/SUP]And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

 

[starfield]

He did tell Nicodemus that he needed to be baptized, keep reading because Nicodemus is puzzled. How can a man re enter his mother and be born again? Then Jesus said to him that he needed to be born of water and spirit.

When Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist, He was baptized by water and what happened right after Jesus came out of the water? The Holy Spirit came down in the "likeness" of a dove. Water and spirit just like Jesus.

The rich man was told to sell all his belongings why, because the rich man loved his belongings too much, they came first to him than Jesus.

But there is no regeneration through the act of water baptism; water baptism just a public declaration of inward transformation that has already occurred. Only the blood of Christ set us free from condemnation of sin, not ordinances. Nicodemus would have had to be saved by faith to be qualified for water baptism. Being born of water and Spirit is when one hears the word of God and believes then the Holy Spirit indwells them at conversion. Water signifies spiritual cleansing from sin by the word of God and Spirit is the Holy Spirit's indwelling on the regenerated person. Check out Titus 3:5 and Eph 5:25-26, they are similar to what Jesus told Nicodemus, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5), "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" (Eph 5:25-26).

Act 8:34-38
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
The eunuch believed in the Lord Jesus and was saved before he was baptized.

Here are some passages of salvation being by faith:
John 3:16- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18- He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Notice who Jesus said is condemned. It is "he that believeth not", not "he that is not baptized".
Romans 5:1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 2:8- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: It does not say "through faith plus baptism".

Nowhere in the bible does it say unbelievers need to be baptized to be saved rather it says they need to have faith in Jesus to be saved. Baptismal regeneration is false doctrine, my friend.

The rich young ruler kept the commandments but was not saved by faith. In fact, he did not want to give up his riches because they were more valuable to him than following Christ, hence Jesus said it is easier for a camel to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom.

 

[Rock022]

But there is no regeneration through the act of water baptism; water baptism just a public declaration of inward transformation that has already occurred. Only the blood of Christ set us free from condemnation of sin, not ordinances. Nicodemus would have had to be saved by faith to be qualified for water baptism. Being born of water and Spirit is when one hears the word of God and believes then the Holy Spirit indwells them at conversion. Water signifies spiritual cleansing from sin by the word of God and Spirit is the Holy Spirit's indwelling on the regenerated person. Check out Titus 3:5 and Eph 5:25-26, they are similar to what Jesus told Nicodemus, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5), "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word" (Eph 5:25-26).

Act 8:34-38
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
The eunuch believed in the Lord Jesus and was saved before he was baptized.

Here are some passages of salvation being by faith:
John 3:16- For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18- He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Notice who Jesus said is condemned. It is "he that believeth not", not "he that is not baptized".
Romans 5:1- Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Ephesians 2:8- For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: It does not say "through faith plus baptism".

Nowhere in the bible does it say unbelievers need to be baptized to be saved rather it says they need to have faith in Jesus to be saved. Baptismal regeneration is false doctrine, my friend.

The rich young ruler kept the commandments but was not saved by faith. In fact, he did not want to give up his riches because they were more valuable to him than following Christ, hence Jesus said it is easier for a camel to enter into the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom.

You are mistaken baptism is not a public declaration. We need to be baptized. Did Jesus needed to be baptized? He would not tell us to do something He has not done Himself.

Jesus was specific he even told us "Truly, Truly unless one is born of the water and spirit, he CAN NOT ENTER the kingdom of God"

By claiming baptism is just a public display you are giving false witness to Jesus Himself. This my friend is a false teaching of men.

 

[RickShafer]

You are mistaken baptism is not a public declaration. We need to be baptized. Did Jesus needed to be baptized? He would not tell us to do something He has not done Himself.

Jesus was specific he even told us "Truly, Truly unless one is born of the water and spirit, he CAN NOT ENTER the kingdom of God"

By claiming baptism is just a public display you are giving false witness to Jesus Himself. This my friend is a false teaching of men.

As Peter himself said: "Baptism is the answer of a clear conscience toward God, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh."
See the thief on the cross.
- More outward signs......which mean nothing without inward changes. - (Spirit Works)

 

[Rock022]

As Peter himself said: "Baptism is the answer of a clear conscience toward God, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh."
See the thief on the cross.
- More outward signs......which mean nothing without inward changes. - (Spirit Works)

Now the question is: Which covenant did the thief died to?
Baptism is not a ritual or a believe or some outward sign. Baptism is required, did you not hear Jesus Himself say it? Do you want to enter the kingdom or not?

 

[starfield]

You are mistaken baptism is not a public declaration. By claiming baptism is just a public display you are giving false witness to Jesus Himself. This my friend is a false teaching of men.

Really? Is it private?

We need to be baptized. Did Jesus needed to be baptized? He would not tell us to do something He has not done Himself.

I acknowledge that believers need to be baptized in obedience to God; we get baptized because we are saved, not to be saved. If you are saying a sinner needs to be baptized to be saved then you are adding works to the atonement of Christ. The bible says we are justified by grace through faith, not works (baptism, Holy Communion, church attendance). Ordinances like baptism and Holy Communion are done after salvation otherwise they have no spiritual meaning. The thief on the cross did not have the opportunity to be baptized yet he went to Paradise because salvation is not contingent on baptism.

A sinner getting baptized is nothing more than going swimming because no inward change has occurred. How does a sinner receive pardon and cleansing from sins? It is through His blood. Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Jesus was specific he even told us "Truly, Truly unless one is born of the water and spirit, he CAN NOT ENTER the kingdom of God"

Did you see my explanation for that?

 

[Rock022]

Really? Is it private?


I acknowledge that believers need to be baptized in obedience to God; we get baptized because we are saved, not to be saved. If you are saying a sinner needs to be baptized to be saved then you are adding works to the atonement of Christ. The bible says we are justified by grace through faith, not works (baptism, Holy Communion, church attendance). Ordinances like baptism and Holy Communion are done after salvation otherwise they have no spiritual meaning. The thief on the cross did not have the opportunity to be baptized yet he went to Paradise because salvation is not contingent on baptism.

A sinner getting baptized is nothing more than going swimming because no inward change has occurred. How does a sinner receive pardon and cleansing from sins? It is through His blood. Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.



Did you see my explanation for that?

No I do not see your explanation because it is not a complete truth. I have shown time and time again that God has told us to work, even showed you guys were the bible says Faith with ought works is dead. You have some truth in what you say but it is only half the truth.

Baptism is required, because God said so. If you wish to come up with some complicated way of explaining why it is just for show then you are mistaken. Jesus did it, then we must do it. Men that doubt this teaching have poisoned the minds of others and making them believe Baptism is a show, or used as confession of sins. Those are wrong.

 

[RickShafer]

No I do not see your explanation because it is not a complete truth. I have shown time and time again that God has told us to work, even showed you guys were the bible says Faith with ought works is dead. You have some truth in what you say but it is only half the truth.

Baptism is required, because God said so. If you wish to come up with some complicated way of explaining why it is just for show then you are mistaken. Jesus did it, then we must do it. Men that doubt this teaching have poisoned the minds of others and making them believe Baptism is a show, or used as confession of sins. Those are wrong.

But Rock22, baptism IS an outward show.
Peter himself said that.
Are you asserting that the outward work has saving grace?
In other words one cannot be regenerated into the (SPIRITUAL) kingdom of Heaven without it?
If you are, explain the thief on the cross, and while your at it explain how the outward material work effects the
inward spiritual reality.
More transubstantiation.......except in water(eternal life); instead of wine(blood).
You R.C.'s need to watch assigning spiritual reality to material works....as if God is beholden to your work.
- - - - -Indulgences anyone???

 

[Rock022]

But Rock22, baptism IS an outward show.
Peter himself said that.
Are you asserting that the outward work has saving grace?
In other words one cannot be regenerated into the (SPIRITUAL) kingdom of Heaven without it?
If you are, explain the thief on the cross, and while your at it explain how the outward material work effects the
inward spiritual reality.
More transubstantiation.......except in water(eternal life); instead of wine(blood).
You R.C.'s need to watch assigning spiritual reality to material works....as if God is beholden to your work.
- - - - -Indulgences anyone???

What did the thief on the cross do? He rebuked the other, he defended Jesus. This is something the thief did this is a work. And yes God himself has told us time and time again that we need to work too. We need to do good works and good deeds. When Jesus said, when I was hungry you feed me. Is that not a good deed or a good work. I have posted time and time again how we are to work. It is the word of God that says this, not the words of men. To believe faith alone is to follow the teachings of men God himself told us Faith with ought works is dead. God said it not me.

 

[Rock022]

- - - - -Indulgences anyone???

Why must a christian insult another christian for the fun of it?