Is once saved always saved true? Or is it only giving false security?

[homwardbound]

Homeward Everything I have posted is from the NT, this are the Apostles themselves telling you this. I have not quoted OT on this subject at all. If Christ crucified is all we need to believe don;t you think the Apostles would have elaborated more on this?

The bible does not contradict itself, so if you can not understand how two opposites work for our salvation and decide to believe one over the other who is condemning who. Every time I as a catholic say something the first question is, where is that in the bible? I have answered, and I got plenty more on this subject of OSAS and Faith Only. Both are wrong. The church has been proving this since the very beginning of christianity with the apostles themselves. I hear all the time catholic teaching is false, when I prove it is correct people then want to justify their reasoning. It is spelled out clearly in the bible.

Homeward if you truly have repented and accepted Christ sacrifice you should have little worry of this. To say I believe something does not mean that is the way you feel.

Anecdote: A child believes the sky is purple and all that is blu for the child is purple and swears by it, but some one teaches this child the true colors and the child understands the sky is blue. Did the teaching changed the child? No not really, the child just knew the wrong name for that color. Now the child can communicate with clarity what colors he sees.

Now if the child was blind that is a different anecdote, and does change the life of that child.

I believe in my heart you know and do what is right with ought teaching it. You may teach OSAS or faith alone but you do not live by them. I hope that I am saved, but this is not a hopeless believe. I only hope because I submit my self completely to His mercy. If His mercy sends me to hell, then His judgment was just.

We confess this in every mass.

The Confiteor:

I confess to Almighty God,
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done
and what I have failed to do,
through my fault,
through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefor I ask the blessed Mary ever-virgin,
all the angels and saints,
and, you my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.
Amen

Rock I already have prayed for you, and I think you have for me. I live and have my being by God And God in the trinity alone. I got here by faith in Christ only desiring to know the Father of and found all through the Holy Ghostnt in me the day I first believed, I had a fight to fight, yet I stood form in the desire to know him and stand firm in belief today knowing nothiing can seperate me from the love of God as Paul so well told all peoples. I am free to do any and all things, because of this freedom I have chosen to what is right by God and what I am told is to love, and let othere be free asa well for it is God that is able to get his children to stand, not me or anyone else. So i trust God to do the straightening out in whomever needs it this includes all people.
Lovew you Rock

 

[Rock022]

Rock I already have prayed for you, and I think you have for me. I live and have my being by God And God in the trinity alone. I got here by faith in Christ only desiring to know the Father of and found all through the Holy Ghostnt in me the day I first believed, I had a fight to fight, yet I stood form in the desire to know him and stand firm in belief today knowing nothiing can seperate me from the love of God as Paul so well told all peoples. I am free to do any and all things, because of this freedom I have chosen to what is right by God and what I am told is to love, and let othere be free asa well for it is God that is able to get his children to stand, not me or anyone else. So i trust God to do the straightening out in whomever needs it this includes all people.
Lovew you Rock

That is a very lovely verse Homeward but it is not in reference to OSAS. I believe you share this freedom Paul speaks about but have the wrong interoperation of the text you stated.

Saul persecuted the Church at the beginning of Acts,and after 8 chapters we see the conversion of Saul who became Paul and believed to have written 13 possibly 14 books of the NT. Saul was bound to the mosaic law. When Saul became Paul and felt the true love, Paul broke away from attachments of the flesh. He later tells us that the flesh wants one thing but the spirit another which teaches us the constant battle we will endure. But if you let God cary the Yoke your burdens will be light, Paul felt a great burden lifted from his shoulders, Paul felt free. This I suspect is your story, but do not cling to OSAS because scripture clearly tells us you can be cut from the tree. To be cut you must have first grown in it right?

 

[homwardbound]

That is a very lovely verse Homeward but it is not in reference to OSAS. I believe you share this freedom Paul speaks about but have the wrong interoperation of the text you stated.

Saul persecuted the Church at the beginning of Acts,and after 8 chapters we see the conversion of Saul who became Paul and believed to have written 13 possibly 14 books of the NT. Saul was bound to the mosaic law. When Saul became Paul and felt the true love, Paul broke away from attachments of the flesh. He later tells us that the flesh wants one thing but the spirit another which teaches us the constant battle we will endure. But if you let God cary the Yoke your burdens will be light, Paul felt a great burden lifted from his shoulders, Paul felt free. This I suspect is your story, but do not cling to OSAS because scripture clearly tells us you can be cut from the tree. To be cut you must have first grown in it right?

Thanks brother for the concern and I am not going to come back as proud or boastful yes as Paul this is my story, and being here knowing my Father will tell me and redirect me through his Holy Ghost that he himself implanted in me the day I first believed at the age of twelve and he has never forsaken me even when I had him. He stayed and by his kindness and his continiued kindness I repented and worked from my flesh wanting to please God, which was only a zeal for God, then I came to the end of the energy of my own flesh and waived my white flag giving up, as the world teaches this is we are to never give up, for we would be in enemy camp a pow. Well from the world's vantage point this is exactly where I am at in the world's enemy camp God's. I found out being a POW in God's kingdom is the best and was the hardest choice ever made as in coming to this understanding that he already had me there I just was not aware of this. Now being in this camp I found out that from the first day at age 12 I was saved, because I really truly believed I did not play church or act to get, or love to be loved, or forgive to be forgiven, yet I did get caught up in the thoughts of whether I sin or not and did get caught up under the Law from a church, where sin takes occassion by the commandment. Now that I willing crossed over. Why woulod I ever go back, when I have been on the world's side of things of anger, stress, beliitling others, acting all Holier than thou, telling others they are wrong and I am right, That is all fleshly insignificance and creates fights in and of the flesh. Perssonaly from God we have no time for that. It is the love of God that needs to be shed abroad in all our hearts loving all unconditionally and then those that are really seeking God out will find God he is as close as the air one breathes. God is faithful and we learn by his Love to be faithful back in trusting God for all needs.
Again all in love Rock

 

[Rock022]

Thanks brother for the concern and I am not going to come back as proud or boastful yes as Paul this is my story, and being here knowing my Father will tell me and redirect me through his Holy Ghost that he himself implanted in me the day I first believed at the age of twelve and he has never forsaken me even when I had him. He stayed and by his kindness and his continiued kindness I repented and worked from my flesh wanting to please God, which was only a zeal for God, then I came to the end of the energy of my own flesh and waived my white flag giving up, as the world teaches this is we are to never give up, for we would be in enemy camp a pow. Well from the world's vantage point this is exactly where I am at in the world's enemy camp God's. I found out being a POW in God's kingdom is the best and was the hardest choice ever made as in coming to this understanding that he already had me there I just was not aware of this. Now being in this camp I found out that from the first day at age 12 I was saved, because I really truly believed I did not play church or act to get, or love to be loved, or forgive to be forgiven, yet I did get caught up in the thoughts of whether I sin or not and did get caught up under the Law from a church, where sin takes occassion by the commandment. Now that I willing crossed over. Why woulod I ever go back, when I have been on the world's side of things of anger, stress, beliitling others, acting all Holier than thou, telling others they are wrong and I am right, That is all fleshly insignificance and creates fights in and of the flesh. Perssonaly from God we have no time for that. It is the love of God that needs to be shed abroad in all our hearts loving all unconditionally and then those that are really seeking God out will find God he is as close as the air one breathes. God is faithful and we learn by his Love to be faithful back in trusting God for all needs.
Again all in love Rock

Well I must say that is has been a great experience discussing this subject with you. For you have shown true love truth your words even in disagreement. This is actually the type of discussion's I have with my neighbors who is a Presbyterian Pastor. We talk for hours and it only seems like minutes. I do not like angry debates at all. Sometimes the soldier comes back to me and I must pray and meditate on God to calm my anxious heart. WHen you read a post of mine if I sound angry or anxious, it is because I have not prayed for the discussion and have made it more about what I believe than what God wants me to do. You have a great heart brother!
God bless.

 

[savedsince14]

The circumstances surrounding the devil and his angels being cast out of heaven are different than what we have on earth. Again if salvation can be lost after it is obtained , then Satan is more powerful than God because he would be able to take it away from you. Jesus spoke mostly in parables to the people ,"because of the hardness of your hearts." He wanted them , and us, to see things from a spiritual aspect. This is why you cannot take the Bible 100% literal. I don't believe the statement,"it means what it says and says what it means." If that were the case then God would be a liar because He said in Genesis,"and God did TEMPT Abraham," and then in James He said ," let no man say he is tempted of God , for God cannot be tempted niether tempteth He any man. I have seen a lot of scripture quoted on this sight about this question and because I am a FIRM believer in eternal security I have wondered how much of it was studied out based on 2nd Timothy 2:15.You Have to STUDY the scriptures to get Gods meaning. not just read a few verses and take them literally. WhenGod said," David went in unto Bathsheba," that IS literal. But when Jesus spoke about the seed sower, He wasn't talking about a person literally sowing seeds ,as in a garden, He was talking about the preaching of the word of God. Noone is EVER going to be be able to keep themselves so sinless that they can enter heaven on their own. God has to save us and God has to keep us saved . Noone has or ever will be able to convince me otherwise because God has shown me through a proper study of the scripture , including the verses that have been used on this sight, that eternal security IS and always will be a BIBLICAL TRUTH. If what I have said and the verses I have used won't convince you, then God himself will have to but He will only do it through a proper study of the scriptures in the King James Bible, No other so-called translation. And it must be done in accordance with 2nd Timothy 2:15.God bless all of you.

 

[nonicknametouse]

If you gave a gift to someone and then maybe a year later that person did something to you that hurt you and angered you, would you take that gift away. God gave you the gift of salvation, which I don't believe he would take away . Jesus shed His blood for that very reason.I do think, however that if we walk in diobedience to Him, or live a life style that is not according to His word, we break fellowship with Him. we tend to not pray as much or go to church so we are not feeding our spirit , which gets weak. That's when the enemy can come into our heads and give us all kinds of guilt trips. Guilt is not from God. Conviction is. Guilt lingers and conviction is that little voice of disernment when you sense when something is not right. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

 

[Rock022]

If you gave a gift to someone and then maybe a year later that person did something to you that hurt you and angered you, would you take that gift away. God gave you the gift of salvation, which I don't believe he would take away . Jesus shed His blood for that very reason.I do think, however that if we walk in diobedience to Him, or live a life style that is not according to His word, we break fellowship with Him. we tend to not pray as much or go to church so we are not feeding our spirit , which gets weak. That's when the enemy can come into our heads and give us all kinds of guilt trips. Guilt is not from God. Conviction is. Guilt lingers and conviction is that little voice of disernment when you sense when something is not right. There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

That is not a strong argument, how many gifts have you lost in your life? I am sure at 58 you have lost quite a few things in your life. Something can be given but you can still loose it.

 

[nonicknametouse]

You are saved by grace. God would not give the gift of salvation and then take it back if we sin. we are all sinners and we aknowlekge those sins on a daily basis. Yes i have lost things , however there is a difference if I loose it or if it is taken away. If that was the case then no onw would stay saved. It was once for all. Jesus shed his blood for that very thing.

 

[homwardbound]

Well I must say that is has been a great experience discussing this subject with you. For you have shown true love truth your words even in disagreement. This is actually the type of discussion's I have with my neighbors who is a Presbyterian Pastor. We talk for hours and it only seems like minutes. I do not like angry debates at all. Sometimes the soldier comes back to me and I must pray and meditate on God to calm my anxious heart. WHen you read a post of mine if I sound angry or anxious, it is because I have not prayed for the discussion and have made it more about what I believe than what God wants me to do. You have a great heart brother!
God bless.

Thanks Rock, God is the one with the mystery and it is of love beyond measure to all,trusting God to do what I can't do in the enrgy of my own flesh mind, learning what renewing my mind means, and so far it is to trust him that he lives through me giving his Spiritual mind set, and I write what I hear. I do not always, every second or minute do this, I would hope to though, I am learning about this miraculous salvation that God has planned for everyone to come to love
Which we both did here and I am elated beyond measure over both of our growths here
Love 1 cor.13 true love homwardbound

 

[homwardbound]

The circumstances surrounding the devil and his angels being cast out of heaven are different than what we have on earth. Again if salvation can be lost after it is obtained , then Satan is more powerful than God because he would be able to take it away from you. Jesus spoke mostly in parables to the people ,"because of the hardness of your hearts." He wanted them , and us, to see things from a spiritual aspect. This is why you cannot take the Bible 100% literal. I don't believe the statement,"it means what it says and says what it means." If that were the case then God would be a liar because He said in Genesis,"and God did TEMPT Abraham," and then in James He said ," let no man say he is tempted of God , for God cannot be tempted niether tempteth He any man. I have seen a lot of scripture quoted on this sight about this question and because I am a FIRM believer in eternal security I have wondered how much of it was studied out based on 2nd Timothy 2:15.You Have to STUDY the scriptures to get Gods meaning. not just read a few verses and take them literally. WhenGod said," David went in unto Bathsheba," that IS literal. But when Jesus spoke about the seed sower, He wasn't talking about a person literally sowing seeds ,as in a garden, He was talking about the preaching of the word of God. Noone is EVER going to be be able to keep themselves so sinless that they can enter heaven on their own. God has to save us and God has to keep us saved . Noone has or ever will be able to convince me otherwise because God has shown me through a proper study of the scripture , including the verses that have been used on this sight, that eternal security IS and always will be a BIBLICAL TRUTH. If what I have said and the verses I have used won't convince you, then God himself will have to but He will only do it through a proper study of the scriptures in the King James Bible, No other so-called translation. And it must be done in accordance with 2nd Timothy 2:15.God bless all of you.

Ihave known of persons that are saved and have not read the word because they can't, but the LOVE they have is freom none other than God himself as John the Baptist said might have been Jesus toi the religous leaders God can turn these rocks into jews. I am glad elated for you savedsince14 thatyou are saved and secure in Fathers bosom and I agree about studying to know Father through Christ and The Holy Ghost of promise.
homwardbound

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is not a strong argument, how many gifts have you lost in your life? I am sure at 58 you have lost quite a few things in your life. Something can be given but you can still loose it.

There do not understand this thinking, I am being honest. not spitefull!!.

1. A gift given by someone here is temporal. and can be lost
2. The gift given by God is called eternal. and it is given by the seal of his own spirit, which is our guarantee. How can we ever lose something signed sealed and delivered by the promise of God and the seal of the spirit? Thats like saying God loses track of us and we hid from him, for that would be the only way we could lose it. Is God not able to keep that which he purchased?

the father gave us a gift,, more importantly, he gave us as a reward to his son.. and his son said no man (not even us0 can pluck us from his hands.

I might get lost. but I will never be lost from God.

 

[nonicknametouse]

This is the thing, when we lose something such as a gift from someone or whatever it may be , such things are temporal. Everything we see will perish. If God takes away our salvation, that is a spititual loss and for eternity. Theres a big difference.

 

[homwardbound]

This is the thing, when we lose something such as a gift from someone or whatever it may be , such things are temporal. Everything we see will perish. If God takes away our salvation, that is a spititual loss and for eternity. Theres a big difference.

God is not a liar man is and God will not go back on any promise. God's gift to mankind is life and God through his Son Christ the righteous has through this perfection of his Son offered this perfection of to all that believe and we can have fellowshoip with Father through the implanted Holy Ghost of promise
[h=3]Ephesians 1:13[/h]New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
Yuono longer are a citizen of this world, you are a citizen of heaven, put back here to represent the joy, the peace and the love of God the Father while in the midst of adversity reacting with joy anyway for

[h=3]John 16:33[/h]New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

[SUP]33 [/SUP]“I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”
Look at that Christ has overcome the world, therefore you being in him have also WOW!!!! yes the world does not understand this and fights against the Spirit of God,the flesh and the Spirit are at war, just each and every day think stay in the Spirit of God where no sin can enter ever For Christ made sure of this by condemning all sin to the flesh at the cross. no more can evil invade except by and through the flesh carnality of the mind. therefore we are dead with Christ back at the cross dead to sin and revived back to a new life in the Spirit of God the inward man of the heart leading and us following all by the operation of God the Father of Christ now your Father as well. What great news yes!!!!!

 

[coconut]

The salvation we have been given through faith in God's son gives us fellowship with a holy God. Our fellowship with the Father and with his Son can be broken but never taken from the believer. Sin breaks our fellowship along with other things that we might get caught up in through the flesh. Our security in God's salvation is the fact that he established us with his righteousness through his Son and has given us access to himself in Christ by faith. When we sin we instantly have an advocate, who is Jesus Christ our righteousness. It is through him that we can be restored by faith so that sin does not have any dominion over us as a practice. The blood of Christ gives us access to the holy of holies for fellowship making it possible for us to always have a way of escape from the consequences of sin that were placed upon the Son, who bore our sins upon his body on the cross. The Father has removed all guilt as well as all sin through his Son and that is why we can be forgiven so quickly without having our conscience stained and marked with the consequences of our sin. This is how a mature believer walks and functions by faith before a holy God. This is the greatest revelation of the eternal security that God has established in the life of the believer through his Son and the confidence and assurance that we have in him.

 

[savedsince14]

The salvation we have been given through faith in God's son gives us fellowship with a holy God. Our fellowship with the Father and with his Son can be broken but never taken from the believer. Sin breaks our fellowship along with other things that we might get caught up in through the flesh. Our security in God's salvation is the fact that he established us with his righteousness through his Son and has given us access to himself in Christ by faith. When we sin we instantly have an advocate, who is Jesus Christ our righteousness. It is through him that we can be restored by faith so that sin does not have any dominion over us as a practice. The blood of Christ gives us access to the holy of holies for fellowship making it possible for us to always have a way of escape from the consequences of sin that were placed upon the Son, who bore our sins upon his body on the cross. The Father has removed all guilt as well as all sin through his Son and that is why we can be forgiven so quickly without having our conscience stained and marked with the consequences of our sin. This is how a mature believer walks and functions by faith before a holy God. This is the greatest revelation of the eternal security that God has established in the life of the believer through his Son and the confidence and assurance that we have in him.

Praise God . I agree with coconut. To put in a final word, we CANNOT lose salvation because it is also of the spirit, not of the flesh. If we could lose it , then , again God would NOT be the God He says he is and Satan would be more powerful than God. When a saved person understands their salvation and the grace of God from a proper study of Gods word(which is the King James Bible and nothing else) then they will have no problem believing eternal security as a 100% Biblical truth.God bless you all. I have enjoyed sharing my Biblical belief on once saved-always saved with you.

 

[Powemm]

There is no false security in christ ... Only freedom...