God's freewill vs. Mankind's election
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E
Yes, the example I like to use is two men drowning, and someone coming to save them. the one who trusts the man saving him will allow him to do what he needs to do.. And will be saved, the one who does not may allow him to try, but will try to help the man..
One thing they tell you in water rescue training is if a person does not sit still and allow you to do the work, But trys to help, chances are you both will drown.. We are told to let them go.
This is a good example. Many people believe in God and Christ, but they want to help him instead of letting him do all the work, Only because they do not trust him.. That is why they can not be assured of salvation, because they are trying to do it of their own power with the rescuers help, and not letting the rescuer save him.
E
Because if I did not trust my parents, or they let me down all the time, I would not trust them. If I did not trust God could do what he promised. I would not trust him either, I may believe in him, but I would try to add my works to his work to make sure I was saved, due to lack of faith.
I never stated faith only comes this way. Everyone has a chance to have faith no one is given more of a chance than anyone else. God did the same for me as he did everyone around me, But not all of us will trust him.
I never sated this, you misunderstood me completely!!..lol
I never stated faith only comes this way. Everyone has a chance to have faith no one is given more of a chance than anyone else. God did the same for me as he did everyone around me, But not all of us will trust him.
I never sated this, you misunderstood me completely!!..lol
Romans 12:3 [SUP]3 [/SUP]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Everyone has it. But not everyone uses it.
James 2:26 [SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Everyone has it. But not everyone uses it.
James 2:26 [SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
A
Romans 12:3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
We already know from the gospels that men had faith before they even believed in the gospel or
what the gospel was. So if every man is given faith then it would have to be a gift.
But to call it a fruit which it is also after salvation, and also a spiritual manifestation. Does
take away that all men have a portion at least the size of a mustard seed, prior to salvation.
So the twist of Eph 2:8 as ive said before is not true and is only there to bolster
a bad doctrine built upon the eisegesis it is. namely limited atonement
We already know from the gospels that men had faith before they even believed in the gospel or
what the gospel was. So if every man is given faith then it would have to be a gift.
But to call it a fruit which it is also after salvation, and also a spiritual manifestation. Does
take away that all men have a portion at least the size of a mustard seed, prior to salvation.
So the twist of Eph 2:8 as ive said before is not true and is only there to bolster
a bad doctrine built upon the eisegesis it is. namely limited atonement
okay...i think i see where you're coming from now:
faith - pistis - is not a gift from God.
is that right?
i think i do now (though i may be wrong....still reading the old posts - i have two windows open).
but i had to go to other sources to see where you are coming from....you have not be precise.
and i wonder why you're so dismissive of a word when i am using it to try to help you understand where i am coming from?
love you EG.
(Daniel 9 is fulfilled btw
)
faith - pistis - is not a gift from God.
is that right?
i think i do now (though i may be wrong....still reading the old posts - i have two windows open).
but i had to go to other sources to see where you are coming from....you have not be precise.
and i wonder why you're so dismissive of a word when i am using it to try to help you understand where i am coming from?
love you EG.
(Daniel 9 is fulfilled btw
)
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E
In the context of eph 2, the gift is salvation. not faith. The faith is based on eph 1: 13- 14.
In the context of having the ability to have faith or not have faith. that is the gift of God. Because God did all the work. Thus in this context. Faith would be a gift.
But then again, as I just said, everyone is offered this same gift. They just have to prove to take it or to reject it.
In the context of having the ability to have faith or not have faith. that is the gift of God. Because God did all the work. Thus in this context. Faith would be a gift.
But then again, as I just said, everyone is offered this same gift. They just have to prove to take it or to reject it.
B
Right now we are just hashing out FAITH is a work... an operation of our reasoning power to engage the will to BELIEVE (the gospel) and therefore recieve salvation.
The basis for freewill... which some refute becaus the word freewill is not in the bible as a WORD tho the principal is scattered from beginning to end.
The basis for freewill... which some refute becaus the word freewill is not in the bible as a WORD tho the principal is scattered from beginning to end.
E
True biblical faith would a complete trust in God and a complete emptying of self.,
If you do not believe you are really a sinner, But believe in God. then you do not have faith
If you believe in God, but think You have to work to earn his gift, you do not have faith
True faith means totally humility and belief in everything God says concerning us, Our condemnation, our ability to save ourselves (zero) and his ability to save us,
If you do not believe you are really a sinner, But believe in God. then you do not have faith
If you believe in God, but think You have to work to earn his gift, you do not have faith
True faith means totally humility and belief in everything God says concerning us, Our condemnation, our ability to save ourselves (zero) and his ability to save us,
E
I will be honest, I do not know how to explain it then.
In eph 2, the gift was salvation. not faith. Faith was the means by which I was saved, and someone else was not, (because they tried to work for it)
4102. πίστις pistis, pis´-tis; from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; mor. conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), espec. reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstr. constancy in such profession; by extens. the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:—assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
Strong, J. (2009). Vol. 1: A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (58). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
Again, this is strongs complete defenition. can you show me where Strong said faith was a gift of God? This seems to be saying the opposite.
In eph 2, the gift was salvation. not faith. Faith was the means by which I was saved, and someone else was not, (because they tried to work for it)
4102. πίστις pistis, pis´-tis; from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; mor. conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), espec. reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstr. constancy in such profession; by extens. the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:—assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
Strong, J. (2009). Vol. 1: A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (58). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
Again, this is strongs complete defenition. can you show me where Strong said faith was a gift of God? This seems to be saying the opposite.