The Trinity

[mark54]

Originally Posted by Elin

If Jesus is not God, most of the NT makes no sense.

Only God can be the source of eternal life, Jesus said he is the eternal life of the way and the truth. (Jn 14:6)

John said the life is the light (Jn 1:4), knowledge is not the light.

There will be no "seeing" (with faith to understand) the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3), and no "hearing" (receiving the gospel) without the life given in rebirth (Jn 5:24-25, 8:43-44, 47).



Well I know what does make no sense. Believing the belief eternal life hinges on is not stated in the Bible.

Still, I guess that way the would be scholar and theologian can pat themself on the back fo working it out

 

[JLHillsSr]

Hi Jl
If the above emboldened is true, who was Jesus before the Spirit descended on him in bodily shape at his baptism?

I love the question.
Humanity. Man. You and I. Born of flesh by flesh.

Luk 1:31 KJV - And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:35 KJV - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

It is Jehovah, who left the Body, showed himself to those present, and returned to the Body, that the Father calls His Son.

 

[schoolofyoungprophet]

I love the question.
Humanity. Man. You and I. Born of flesh by flesh.

Luk 1:31 KJV - And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:35 KJV - And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

It is Jehovah, who left the Body, showed himself to those present, and returned to the Body, that the Father calls His Son.

U should watch this.debate trinity vs unitarian
The Great Debate: Is Jesus God? ( 1 of 3 ) Dr. Anthony Buzzard vs Dr. James White - YouTube

 

[mark54]

Well to me, .

Christ is fully possessed of the Spirit of the Father's prescence. As he is fully possessed of this Spirit he has divinity/holiness. But the Son is not the Father, and the Father is the one true God.

Now here is where words get played with as it were
For JL believes Christ is the spirit of Jehovah(if I HAVE THAT RIGHT) and that Spirit fully dwells therefore in him(Holy Spirit)

Equal Trinitarians believe Christ has a body and in that body is God fully

But they also believe the Holy Spirit is God Himself, so technically I doubt they much diagree with me or JL as to who resides fully in the body of Christ, according to their belief

Then there's oneness pentecostals!





You know what!

I reckon God knew the mess man would get in trying to work it all out, so he said to Jesus before he came to earth

'Just tell them you're my Son'

Now everything would have been OK if it had of been left at that. but then those darned theologians and scholars came along shortly after the Apostles passed on and caused a whole heap of trouble

Yikes, according to some I have just committed Apostasy.

 

[Abiding]

Well personally i just think you just love the attention.
and the words grey matter.

Aside from that is see no point at all. Call Jesus the Son of God. So He is.
But remember why they wanted to stone Him, for making himself equal with God.
Then He allowed worship. And 23 more pages would do nothing more but convince the
onlookers that Jesus is God. Thats why Paul said heresies must be. And they do help.

 

[mark54]

Well personally i just think you just love the attention.
and the words grey matter.

Abiding, the above emboldened does upset many when it is mentioned on websites such as these. because-they believe in effect through their hard work and study they have achieved much truth and learning. Whatever they may at times say, they arfe proud, chuffed as to what they think they have achieved knowledge wise through their effort and endeavours
Actually this is why they cannot accet the plain text, as the vast majority who go to church will
And if I am honest, it must hurt that my constantly asked question cannot be replied to
As for me wanting the attention
A Godly woman of 50 years said to me
Peoiple go on those websites because they are fanatics or have too much spare time on their hands/they are bored
Its OK, I understand why you are upset


Aside from that is see no point at all. Call Jesus the Son of God. So He is.
But remember why they wanted to stone Him, for making himself equal with God.
Then He allowed worship. And 23 more pages would do nothing more but convince the
onlookers that Jesus is God. Thats why Paul said heresies must be. And they do help.

Well thank you for your theological opinions
Now
Can you give me one plain verrse of scripture where it is stated
Christ is the one true God Himself?
Can you give me one plain verse of scripture that states
A person must believe Christ is God Himself in order to inherit eternal life?

Can you tell me why the Apostles Peter, James, John and Paul failed woefully their readers by not plainly telling them they must believe Christ is GOD himself unto salvation?

Did they not have the spiritual insight you and others do today as to what is required belief unto salvation?
Or did they abysmally fail in their duty as Apostles to plainly tell people what the must believe unto salvation?
After all we are discussing here what to you is the foundational belief of the faith and the neccessary belief to inherit eternal life

Can you answer that based on your learning, striving to gain truth of the faith, theologies?
Thanks

 

[Bowman]

you don't answer questions...

 

[mark54]

I am putting you on ignore Bowman
Because though you didn't answer questions yesterday, you gave silly replies in an effort to cover that truth up

IE
Prove it
Yes I did etc, etc

 

[jimmydiggs]

Water is also known as H2O.

H2O can be a solid [ice]
H2O can be a liquid
H2O can be mist or vapor

At the core of any of this stages it is still the same substance H2O

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

At the core of any of them is God

Modalism...

 

[JLHillsSr]

Well to me, .

Christ is fully possessed of the Spirit of the Father's prescence. As he is fully possessed of this Spirit he has divinity/holiness. But the Son is not the Father, and the Father is the one true God.

Now here is where words get played with as it were
For JL believes Christ is the spirit of Jehovah(if I HAVE THAT RIGHT) and that Spirit fully dwells therefore in him(Holy Spirit)

Equal Trinitarians believe Christ has a body and in that body is God fully

But they also believe the Holy Spirit is God Himself, so technically I doubt they much diagree with me or JL as to who resides fully in the body of Christ, according to their belief

Then there's oneness pentecostals!





You know what!

I reckon God knew the mess man would get in trying to work it all out, so he said to Jesus before he came to earth

'Just tell them you're my Son'

Now everything would have been OK if it had of been left at that. but then those darned theologians and scholars came along shortly after the Apostles passed on and caused a whole heap of trouble

Yikes, according to some I have just committed Apostasy.

First of all Mark54 I do not think that the Father is the Son. That would be ludacris.
Secondly, the Holy Spirit, though omnipresent, was the one who raised the Body from the sepulcher, (Rom 6:4). This is what keeps this Body in existence in the Kingdom.
I believe with all my heart, body, and soul, that the Father is the Highest and that Jehovah is the only begotten of the Father. If you can see by this testimony, I also believe in the Trinity.

Psa 22:9 KJV - But thou [art] he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope [when I was] upon my mother's breasts.

This is a statement from the humanity to Jehovah. Jehovah entered that body as soon as it was born and placed on Mary's breast.

 

[mark54]

First of all Mark54 I do not think that the Father is the Son. That would be ludacris.
Secondly, the Holy Spirit, though omnipresent, was the one who raised the Body from the sepulcher, (Rom 6:4). This is what keeps this Body in existence in the Kingdom.
I believe with all my heart, body, and soul, that the Father is the Highest and that Jehovah is the only begotten of the Father. If you can see by this testimony, I also believe in the Trinity.

Psa 22:9 KJV - But thou [art] he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope [when I was] upon my mother's breasts.

This is a statement from the humanity to Jehovah. Jehovah entered that body as soon as it was born and placed on Mary's breast.

From the above emboldened I would think we must broadly agree as to the essential doctrine of this subject, though probably would disagree as to some of the finer points
Does that make sense JL
Would you agree with that?

BTW
I have not read all your posts on this subject, so can only base the above on what I have acrtually read

 

[JLHillsSr]

From the above emboldened I would think we must agree as to the essential doctrine of this subject, though probably would disagree as to some of the finer points
Does that make sense JL
Would you agree with that?

BTW
I have not read all your posts on this subject, so can only base the above on what I have acrtually read

I don't mean to come off as a self-righteous...umm...mule. I am very passionate, however to the true Word of God, and have spent many hours with Him and the Book that he gave me. My love lies in his Body, and will join him in the time of his calling. I have complete faith in all that he has shown me and will show me.
Jehovah is my Savior.

BTW, Mark54, Do you know who the sons of God are?
Just curious, Joe.

 

[Abiding]

Well thank you for your theological opinions
Now
Can you give me one plain verrse of scripture where it is stated
Christ is the one true God Himself?
Can you give me one plain verse of scripture that states
A person must believe Christ is God Himself in order to inherit eternal life?

Can you tell me why the Apostles Peter, James, John and Paul failed woefully their readers by not plainly telling them they must believe Christ is GOD himself unto salvation?

Did they not have the spiritual insight you and others do today as to what is required belief unto salvation?
Or did they abysmally fail in their duty as Apostles to plainly tell people what the must believe unto salvation?
After all we are discussing here what to you is the foundational belief of the faith and the neccessary belief to inherit eternal life

Can you answer that based on your learning, striving to gain truth of the faith, theologies?
Thanks

Mark, you have to be reasonable to have dialogue with people. If you think youve stumpted
folks here let me assure you that if people dont stay and argue with you its not for the lack of evidence.
Its simply because its futile.

The bible shows more proof that Jesus Christ is God than anything else. So your really just twiddling your thumbs
in public.

Mark remember the Apostles didnt write the bible on their own. What was written was written as the
Holyspirit moved them. The bible is chuck full of mysteries and revealed unto babes.

Noone here has said Jesus Christ wasnt the Son of God. But thats not good enough for you.
Seems you want folks to say the Son of God isnt God. Well thats where you fall in line
with the heretics.

It isnt so much theology/grey matter as you put it thinking that is witty.
Its that the whole council of God teaches us things a simple verse here and there alone
wont reveal. By the way the bible itself tells us to study and divide which is theology.


We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know Him Who is True and we are in Him Who is True, in His Son Jesus Christ.This is the True God and eternal life. (1 John 5:20).

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.rev 22:13

Thus says the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.isa 44:6

rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

[Bowman]

squawwwwk...

I am putting you on ignore Bowman
Because though you didn't answer questions yesterday, you gave silly replies in an effort to cover that truth up

IE
Prove it
Yes I did etc, etc

squawwwwk…. ‘you didn’t answer my question’….. squawwwwk…. ‘you didn’t answer my question’….. squawwwwk…. ‘you didn’t answer my question’…..

 

[unclefester]

Would God Himself accept all praise, credit, glory and honour for something He Himself did not accomplish ? If Jesus is not God, this is what you are left with, like it or not. God did more than provide our sacrifice. He WAS our sacrifice. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us.

 

[cfultz3]

Mark, you have to be reasonable to have dialogue with people. If you think youve stumpted
folks here let me assure you that if people dont stay and argue with you its not for the lack of evidence.
Its simply because its futile.

.............

 

[mark54]

I don't mean to come off as a self-righteous...umm...mule. I am very passionate, however to the true Word of God, and have spent many hours with Him and the Book that he gave me. My love lies in his Body, and will join him in the time of his calling. I have complete faith in all that he has shown me and will show me.
Jehovah is my Savior.

BTW, Mark54, Do you know who the sons of God are?
Just curious, Joe.

Us................

 

[mark54]

Mark, you have to be reasonable to have dialogue with people. If you think youve stumpted
folks here let me assure you that if people dont stay and argue with you its not for the lack of evidence.
Its simply because its futile.

It is the vplain word as opposed to the thological mindset of the little grey cells Abididng
For I CAN EASILY GIVE YOU PLAIN SCRIPTURE AS TO THE REQUIRED BELIEF AS TO WHO cHRIST IS UNTO SALVATION
yET YOU CANNOT GIVE ME ONE VERSE FROM THE ENTIRE BIBLE THAT STATES YOUR BELIEF
(sorry for caps, forgot to take them off)
Hence yours as is most on these websites a theological understanding of the little grey cells, not led of the Spirit, for you oppose who Christ said it is neccessary to believe he is unto salvation

The bible shows more proof that Jesus Christ is God than anything else. So your really just twiddling your thumbs
in public.

Intersting. We have a cryptic bible, that demands working out what is not plainly wirten to inherit eternal life. And I THOUGHT IT WAS A SIMPLE Gospel, apparently not
Mark remember the Apostles didnt write the bible on their own. What was written was written as the
Holyspirit moved them. The bible is chuck full of mysteries and revealed unto babes.

So the truth needed to inehrit eternal life is a mystery? And the Holy Spirit did not lead the Apostes to plainly write down the requirement of belief needed unto eternal life
Just think, if He did, that would negate much of the usefulness of the theologian and scholar wouldn't it?

Noone here has said Jesus Christ wasnt the Son of God. But thats not good enough for you.
Seems you want folks to say the Son of God isnt God. Well thats where you fall in line
with the heretics.

Nope, I have never criticised anyone for believing Christ is God hIMSELF
My criticism is of people who WILL NOT accept the requirement of belief Christ himself laid down as to who a person must believe him to be to inherit eternal life

It isnt so much theology/grey matter as you put it thinking that is witty.
Its that the whole council of God teaches us things a simple verse here and there alone
wont reveal. By the way the bible itself tells us to study and divide which is theology.

I am sure you believe what is even foundational to the faith needs much study and theology, this is what many who come onto these websites crave, nothing stirs them more than believing their littler grey cells can work much out.



We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know Him Who is True and we are in Him Who is True, in His Son Jesus Christ.This is the True God and eternal life. (1 John 5:20).



I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.rev 22:13

Thus says the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.isa 44:6

rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

As for your above verses of scripture, you have not answered my question as to why, the Apostles failED to plainly Inform their readers what must be believed to inherit eternal life

Individual verses of scriture are pointless. Whatever you bring forth I can reply to, and then I simply place others before you
My beef, is in people who will not accept the biblical requirement unto salvation. Give me scripture to show me I am wrong
For I can give you very plain scripture to show you I am right
In fact, you have not one verse of scripture from the entire bible that states what you believe must be believed in order for a person to inherit eternal life
And as you cannot respond to my oft repeated question, I am left no choice but to believe you could not care a less that ministers will not preach plainly what to you is the foundational belief of Christianity from the pulpit, or to plainly tell people what is and what is not acceptable belief as to who Christ is unto salvation and the consequences of getting it wrong

 

[Stephen63]

Mark, you have to be reasonable to have dialogue with people. If you think youve stumpted
folks here let me assure you that if people dont stay and argue with you its not for the lack of evidence.
Its simply because its futile.

Boy, did you ever say a mouthful that time! Goes for almost the whole forum! Wish I'd said that a long time ago!

 

[mark54]

Boy, did you ever say a mouthful that time! Goes for almost the whole forum! Wish I'd said that a long time ago!

Did you know that welll over 90% of people who attend churches believe you only have to believe Christ is the sON OF God unto salvation?

This is an internet thing

The ministers don't demand it from the pulpit, or tell people the consequences of getting it wrong(according to many peoples beliefs on websites such as these)

Not in the UK anyway