The Trinity

[Jon4TheCross]

I assume you are oneness Pentecostal, as all other Equal Trinitarians tell me they do not believe Jesus is the Father

However, i Must repeat, my only concern here is what as person must believe concerning who Christ is to inherit eternal life, so I will not respond to anything else but that subject directly

Perhaps if you accept the fact that you cannot comprehend the fullness of God, then you will be able to comprehend a greater measure of God including the fact that we can understand God easier when we work on understanding parts of the one and only God while we continually mature (we're all given a measure, and required more or less depending on our current measure, which is also equality.) There is only one who has the approval to be worshipped, and that is God without beginning or ending (and that includes Jesus Christ). God the Father gave us the one and only true and perfect and holy example of what a son of God should be, and Jesus Christ and the Father are one. There is an approachable earthen vessel of God (the example of Joshua worshipping the Captain of the Host of the Lord), and there is an appearance of God that flesh and blood cannot approach. Both of these are God, and thank God that He/The Father/Jesus Christ is approachable even for us. The Holy Spirit of The Right Hand of The Father, Jesus Christ our Lord, is God. These three are one. When you drive in a vehicle, the vehicle and you are one. If the vehicle crashes, you will too, unless God pulls you out before impact (which is possible). There is only one vehicle we can call God, because that vehicle has no beginning, and that vehicle is Jesus Christ/priest after the order of Melchisidec/Captain of the Host of the Lord/The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

To receive the benefits of partaking of a nut, first you have to understand how to get to it, so you focus on the outside shell. Once the outside shell is understood and opened, then you have to know if the inside is good to partake of or not, and then when you know about the inside you can partake and receive the benefits of the substance in the inside of the inside. It's not so hard to understand that it is very edifying for us to focus first on Jesus Christ in order to understand the more complex and meatier details of God. We call all these parts of a walnut, a walnut. We can also call a walnut by it's separate parts that make up the one walnut.

 

[johnluke]

I have not had the oppertunity to read all the posts in this thread, but the Trinity question is an interesting one. I would like to enter the discussion by asking the following question:

Is it true that if there is one moment in time that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are separated, then the Trinity concept and doctrine is proven to be untrue?

 

[Bowman]

God the Father was a spirit being.

We have to remember that The Father is not The Spirit, and visa-versa.

Before Jesus was born of Mary He was equal with the Father; both spirit beings...both Gods!

Singular God.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I have not had the oppertunity to read all the posts in this thread, but the Trinity question is an interesting one. I would like to enter the discussion by asking the following question:

Is it true that if there is one moment in time that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are separated, then the Trinity concept and doctrine is proven to be untrue?

First you would have to find any part of scripture given that suggests that they have ever been separate (for example... A walnut has many parts which are not separate, and yet separate at the same time). The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all have no beginning, so time would have to be put in proper perspective as well. Keep in mind that the earthen vessel of God can exist before it appears to us. For instance..... If we consider that everything but God has a beginning, then we must consider a seed (God). Joh_12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
God has no beginning or ending, so pinpointing a specific time or date that eternal life for us was accomplished is like trying to pinpoint a specific time or date that God began to exist. God has no beginning or ending. It can help if you liken God to a never ending existence of something that can be dwelt in, travelled through, and you're always in the center of God when born again. Your individual experience depends on where you go, what you see, the order of your experiences, etc. We can't pinpoint a beginning of something that has no beginning. No matter where you go or what you do, the only beginning of God from our perspective is the first time we were made aware of His existence. God introduced Himself to us in a very edifying way (the perfect way). Just because we see an order of knowledge, wisdom, and understanding of God given to us, it doesn't mean it started existing when we were made aware. If you can pinpoint when God began, then you can pinpoint when Jesus Christ became Lord. If you cannot pinpoint when God began (which nobody can), then it's also impossible to pinpoint when God died for us, unless we use a relative timeline that matches our own perspective of the order of events from our perspective. God is introducing Himself to us, but it doesn't mean He began. God is I AM, and I AM has no beginning. We should just be content to start learning about God where we are, and explore God for all eternity. Eternity is more like locations than a timeline.

 

[zone]

I am only here to debate one thing. If you believe a person must believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation, please proiduce the scripture that says that

As I can give you plain and clear scriptrure thast states only the Father is the one true God, likewise I expect the same from you, plain and clear scripture that states Christ is the one true God, nothing else will do

are you an idolator Mark?

do you now, or will you at any time bend the knee to Jesus Christ the Son of God?

do you now, or will you at any time worship Jesus Christ The Son of God?

 

[mark54]

I dunno, with all these expert anologies of the Trinity, and people telling us that you have to believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation, I'm begining to get a pretty dim view of all those Trinitarian ministers in the pulpits
After all, they don't(in most cases) tell people they have to believe Christ is GOD UNTO SALVATION, nor do they give us such fine analogies about the Trinity. neither have I ever heard a minister say God died on the cross for us
I'm begining to think none of them are doing their jobs properly, they need to stand aside and let people take their places who have been grounded on internet websites

 

[Eccl12and13]

We have to remember that The Father is not The Spirit, and visa-versa.

We are "Human Beings". We are made of flesh and blood. God and the angels are NOT Human beings! Spirit Beings are not made of flesh and blood as are we.

I said God is a "Spirit Being"! Just as angels are "Spirit Beings"!

There are ONLY (2) beings.....those made of flesh and blood; animals and us humans. And then there are "Spirit Beings"; God and the angels!

Did you not know that God and the angels are "Spirit Beings"


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[Eccl12and13]

We have to remember that The Father is not The Spirit, and visa-versa.

Rev.3
[1] And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.


Seems like some party.....so there are SEVEN Spirits of God? So there is God the Father, God the Son and the SEVEN Holy Ghost/Spirits of God?


Does not sound like a "Trinity"!



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[mark54]

As most on this thread who have voiced an opinion believe we will dwell in Heaven in a body of flesh and blood, and they also know Christ said at the resurrection we will be like the angels in Heaven, I am not sure many do believe the angels are Spirit beings

 

[Eccl12and13]

The bible tells us that We, us Human beings, are one with the Father and the Son in the SAME WAY that the Father and the Son, who are "spirit beings", are ONE!

How are we that are flesh and blood one with "spirit beings"? How are we the same?

Because however they are one...we are one with them!


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[mark54]

The bible tells us that We, us Human beings, are one with the Father and the Son in the SAME WAY that the Father and the Son, who are "spirit beings", are ONE!

How are we that are flesh and blood one with "spirit beings"? How are we the same?

Because however they are one...we are one with them!


.

I and the Father are one John10:30


“My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, [SUP]21[/SUP]that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one AS we are one: [SUP]23 [/SUP]I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity

How can you and I be one?

We cannot be one person, we are two unique individuals, two seperate people
There is only one way you and I could be one-in the Spirit

Then make my joy complete, by being like minded, having the same love, being one in Spirit and purpose
Phil 2:2

That is the only way we can be as one IN THE SPIRIT, and we can be united in agreement only in the Holy Spirit.

Only in the Spirit can we be in Father and son and they in us , there is no other way. And as we can be in them, they are in each other
And Christ prayed in this onenes we may be brought to unity. Again only in the Holy Spirit can we be as one, or in unity

And Jesus said

That they may be one AS we are one

 

[Eccl12and13]

As most on this thread who have voiced an opinion believe we will dwell in Heaven in a body of flesh and blood, and they also know Christ said at the resurrection we will be like the angels in Heaven, I am not sure many do believe the angels are Spirit beings

I have read the same remarks....why would God allow something such as a corruptible human body be allowed in His presence?

Just as the scripture tells us;

John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

That is why we must be "born again". We must be made into "spirit beings"!


.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I dunno, with all these expert anologies of the Trinity, and people telling us that you have to believe Christ is God Himself unto salvation, I'm begining to get a pretty dim view of all those Trinitarian ministers in the pulpits
After all, they don't(in most cases) tell people they have to believe Christ is GOD UNTO SALVATION, nor do they give us such fine analogies about the Trinity. neither have I ever heard a minister say God died on the cross for us
I'm begining to think none of them are doing their jobs properly, they need to stand aside and let people take their places who have been grounded on internet websites

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "grounded on internet websites"? Can you prove when Jesus Christ began to exist? No, you cannot. To be saved from any torment and punishment after this earthen vessel is not operating, a person must know God/The Holy Spirit/Jesus Christ. The answer of the one thing that is needful for salvation is easy.

Luk 10:38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.

Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

Luk 10:40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

Luk 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:


Luk 10:42 But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

 

[Eccl12and13]

If you can pinpoint when God began, then you can pinpoint when Jesus Christ became Lord. If you cannot pinpoint when God began (which nobody can), then it's also impossible to pinpoint when God died for us, unless we use a relative timeline that matches our own perspective of the order of events from our perspective.

God gave us the timeline to know when Jesus died for the sins of man. Jesus died on the 14th day of the first month of God's calender, or the 14th of Nisan.

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[mark54]

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "grounded on internet websites"? Can you prove when Jesus Christ began to exist? No, you cannot. To be saved from any torment and punishment after this earthen vessel is not operating, a person must know God/The Holy Spirit/Jesus Christ. The answer of the one thing that is needful for salvation is easy.

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If you are saved, then the Spirit lives in you(Rom8:9), then you know all three.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

I have read the same remarks....why would God allow something such as a corruptible human body be allowed in His presence?

Just as the scripture tells us;

John 4
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

That is why we must be "born again". We must be made into "spirit beings"!


.

1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Flesh and blood are two separate things. Flesh of fruit has not blood, it's more like juice. Flesh of olives has no blood, more like oil. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Eccl12and13]

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "grounded on internet websites"? Can you prove when Jesus Christ began to exist? No, you cannot. To be saved from any torment and punishment after this earthen vessel is not operating, a person must know God/The Holy Spirit/Jesus Christ. The answer of the one thing that is needful for salvation is easy.

Luk 10:38 Now it came to pass, as they went, that he entered into a certain village: and a certain woman named Martha received him into her house.

Luk 10:39 And she had a sister called Mary, which also sat at Jesus' feet, and heard his word.

Luk 10:40 But Martha was cumbered about much serving, and came to him, and said, Lord, dost thou not care that my sister hath left me to serve alone? bid her therefore that she help me.

Luk 10:41 And Jesus answered and said unto her, Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things:


Luk 10:42But one thing is needful: and Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.

Not only are you to hear the word....for salvation takes not only the hearing of the word but also the following;

Heb.5
[9] And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

One must also OBEY those words that you hear!


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[Jon4TheCross]

God gave us the timeline to know when Jesus died for the sins of man. Jesus died on the 14th day of the first month of God's calender, or the 14th of Nisan.

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Yes that's a relative timeline that matches our own perspective of the order of events from our perspective.

 

[Eccl12and13]

1Co_15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Flesh and blood are two separate things. Flesh of fruit has not blood, it's more like juice. Flesh of olives has no blood, more like oil. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

That is why we must be "born again". We must be made into "spirit beings"!


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