God's freewill vs. Mankind's election
- Thread starter RickShafer
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I don't think there are, not that I would know, but I'm used to forums that are inundated with atheists who come to cause a disturbance.
I was asked by a Jehovah Witness a few weeks ago whether I thought we would all come to believe the same, I don't know the answer to that but I sincerely hope we all do, but that means we need to be prepared to respond to revealed truth and repent of any error we may hold to and I include myself in that.
I was asked by a Jehovah Witness a few weeks ago whether I thought we would all come to believe the same, I don't know the answer to that but I sincerely hope we all do, but that means we need to be prepared to respond to revealed truth and repent of any error we may hold to and I include myself in that.
E
No your the one who does not understand. I am trusting in Jesus not myself. Thus I can not boast of anything. Faith means trust that is all.
Do you trust Jesus, or do you not. that is the question.
There can be absolutely no boasting in trusting someone else to do all the work for you. that makes no sense at all!!
and Paul was telling us how we were saved, Not telling us how we got faith.
E
No one willingly deny's God? Wow so I guess everyone will be saved? If we can not willingly deny God, we can;t be held accountable for denying him.
People willingly deny him all the time, the pharisees did. The disciples that left him in John 6 did. Everyone who rejects the saving message of the gospel does.
People willingly deny him all the time, the pharisees did. The disciples that left him in John 6 did. Everyone who rejects the saving message of the gospel does.
H
by grace we are saved through faith.. and that is not of ourself...grace is not of ourself for' it is his unmerited favor, and faith is not of ourselves for' that comes by hearing the word of God. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, so faith and grace is from God and God alone. Therefore when someone runs around saying they're saved, there is NO room to boast. "Well I did this, or I did that for faith or grace" It doesn't work like that. It is solely God that saves us. He gives us faith and grace
And on and on............(in triplicate)
Listen, it is obvious that the apostle is addressing faith(what they might boast in) and not salvation.
Who boasts in a gift? No.
People boast in their faith to this day.
Do you want to know why?
Because it-(faith) could be considered a work! Not salvation through unmerited favor(grace).
This has become comical as I have answered it at least a half a dozen times.
I didn't write it, the apostle Paul through the unction of the Holy Spirit did.
What comedy and waste to keep arguing this point.
Listen, it is obvious that the apostle is addressing faith(what they might boast in) and not salvation.
Who boasts in a gift? No.
People boast in their faith to this day.
Do you want to know why?
Because it-(faith) could be considered a work! Not salvation through unmerited favor(grace).
This has become comical as I have answered it at least a half a dozen times.
I didn't write it, the apostle Paul through the unction of the Holy Spirit did.
What comedy and waste to keep arguing this point.
A
Well yes you have but many dont agree with you. They see that salvation is the "gift" thats spoken of.
For by it the Elders obtained a good report.
- King James Version (1611) - Compare to scan of original Hebrews chapter 11
For by it the men of old gained approval.
- New American Standard Version (1995)
For therein the elders had witness borne to them.
- American Standard Version (1901)
For by it our fathers had God's approval.
- Basic English Bible
For in [the power of] this the elders have obtained testimony.
- Darby Bible
For by this the ancients obtained a testimony.
- Douay Rheims Bible
For by it the elders obtained a good report.
- Webster's Bible
For by it the saints of old won God's approval.
- Weymouth Bible
For by this, the elders obtained testimony.
- World English Bible
And in this feith elde men han gete witnessyng.
- Wycliffe Bible
for in this were the elders testified of;
- Youngs Literal Bible
Heb 11:[SUP]6[/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
[SUP]4[/SUP] By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
[SUP]5[/SUP] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
[SUP]6[/SUP] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
[SUP]7[/SUP] By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
[SUP]8[/SUP] By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
[SUP]9[/SUP] By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
[SUP]10[/SUP] For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
[SUP]11[/SUP] Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
[SUP]12[/SUP] Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
[SUP]13[/SUP] These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embracedthem, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
[SUP]14[/SUP] For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
[SUP]15[/SUP] And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
[SUP]16[/SUP] But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
[SUP]17[/SUP] By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
[SUP]18[/SUP] Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
[SUP]19[/SUP] Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
[SUP]20[/SUP] By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
[SUP]21[/SUP] By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
[SUP]22[/SUP] By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
[SUP]23[/SUP] By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
[SUP]24[/SUP] By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
[SUP]25[/SUP] Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
[SUP]26[/SUP] Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
[SUP]27[/SUP] By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
[SUP]28[/SUP] Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
[SUP]29[/SUP] By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
[SUP]30[/SUP] By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
[SUP]31[/SUP] By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
[SUP]32[/SUP] And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
[SUP]33[/SUP] Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
[SUP]34[/SUP] Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
[SUP]35[/SUP] Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
[SUP]36[/SUP] And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
[SUP]37[/SUP] They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
[SUP]38[/SUP] (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
[SUP]39[/SUP] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[SUP]40[/SUP] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
For by it the Elders obtained a good report.
- King James Version (1611) - Compare to scan of original Hebrews chapter 11
For by it the men of old gained approval.
- New American Standard Version (1995)
For therein the elders had witness borne to them.
- American Standard Version (1901)
For by it our fathers had God's approval.
- Basic English Bible
For in [the power of] this the elders have obtained testimony.
- Darby Bible
For by this the ancients obtained a testimony.
- Douay Rheims Bible
For by it the elders obtained a good report.
- Webster's Bible
For by it the saints of old won God's approval.
- Weymouth Bible
For by this, the elders obtained testimony.
- World English Bible
And in this feith elde men han gete witnessyng.
- Wycliffe Bible
for in this were the elders testified of;
- Youngs Literal Bible
Heb 11:[SUP]6[/SUP]But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
[SUP]4[/SUP] By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
[SUP]5[/SUP] By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
[SUP]6[/SUP] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
[SUP]7[/SUP] By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
[SUP]8[/SUP] By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
[SUP]9[/SUP] By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
[SUP]10[/SUP] For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
[SUP]11[/SUP] Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
[SUP]12[/SUP] Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
[SUP]13[/SUP] These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embracedthem, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
[SUP]14[/SUP] For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
[SUP]15[/SUP] And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
[SUP]16[/SUP] But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
[SUP]17[/SUP] By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
[SUP]18[/SUP] Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
[SUP]19[/SUP] Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
[SUP]20[/SUP] By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
[SUP]21[/SUP] By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
[SUP]22[/SUP] By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
[SUP]23[/SUP] By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
[SUP]24[/SUP] By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
[SUP]25[/SUP] Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
[SUP]26[/SUP] Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
[SUP]27[/SUP] By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
[SUP]28[/SUP] Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
[SUP]29[/SUP] By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
[SUP]30[/SUP] By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
[SUP]31[/SUP] By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
[SUP]32[/SUP] And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
[SUP]33[/SUP] Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
[SUP]34[/SUP] Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
[SUP]35[/SUP] Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
[SUP]36[/SUP] And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
[SUP]37[/SUP] They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
[SUP]38[/SUP] (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.[SUP]39[/SUP] And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[SUP]40[/SUP] God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
A
Heres more: if you wanted scripture
James 2:[SUP]1[/SUP] My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.[SUP]2[/SUP] For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
[SUP]3[/SUP] And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
[SUP]5[/SUP] Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
[SUP]6[/SUP] But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
[SUP]7[/SUP] Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
[SUP]8[/SUP] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[SUP]9[/SUP] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[SUP]11[/SUP] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12[/SUP] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[SUP]13[/SUP] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
[SUP]14[/SUP] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15[/SUP] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16[/SUP] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17[/SUP] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18[/SUP] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19[/SUP] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20[/SUP] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]21[/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22[/SUP] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23[/SUP] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25[/SUP] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[SUP]26[/SUP] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
[h=3]Romans 5[/h]
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[h=3]Romans 4[/h]
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Now go to eph 2[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
easy to see that Ephesians is talking about "works" the boasting is over, not faith.
James 2:[SUP]1[/SUP] My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.[SUP]2[/SUP] For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
[SUP]3[/SUP] And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
[SUP]4[/SUP] Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
[SUP]5[/SUP] Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
[SUP]6[/SUP] But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
[SUP]7[/SUP] Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
[SUP]8[/SUP] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[SUP]9[/SUP] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10[/SUP] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[SUP]11[/SUP] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12[/SUP] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[SUP]13[/SUP] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
[SUP]14[/SUP] What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
[SUP]15[/SUP] If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16[/SUP] And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17[/SUP] Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18[/SUP] Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19[/SUP] Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20[/SUP] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
[SUP]21[/SUP] Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
[SUP]22[/SUP] Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23[/SUP] And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24[/SUP] Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25[/SUP] Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
[SUP]26[/SUP] For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
[h=3]Romans 5[/h]
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
[h=3]Romans 4[/h]
4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Now go to eph 2[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
easy to see that Ephesians is talking about "works" the boasting is over, not faith.
E
And on and On. I have never seen anyone so stubborn.
It is obvious that it is works in which they may boast on not faith. That is why it says not of works lest anyone should boast. And you want to put this to faith?
In fact, Paul says the same thing in another chapter in the same book.
Romans 4 : 1 - 8 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Boasting by works. Belief or faith is how he was justified (righteous)
and even in chapter 3.
Rom 3:20 - 24..Therfore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified. For by the law is knowledge of sin. but now the rightiousness of God apart from the law is revealed being witnessed by the law and the prophets even the rightiousness of God through faith in Christ to all on on all who believe for their is no difference.
Again, Justified by faith.
Why don't you face it. No one would see it the way you do unless they were indoctrinated into that belief. Sentance structure does not allow us to see it your way.
Who boasts in faith in someone else doing ALL THE WORK? No one.
Oh they do? show me someone who boasts in faith in Christ alone? I have never met anyone.
You boast in your election. what does that make you?
Only in your religion would faith in someone else be counted as a work. No one in their right mind would consider total faith in someone else to do ALL the work something one could boast in. In fact it goes against human nature to even allow us to do this. Our nature says we must save ourself. thus to trust someone else is totally against our nature, thus the ability to boast is negated..
yeah it is comical. to see you twist scripture, and make comments which do not make sense to no one but yourself and those like you.
yeah it is a waste. to think you would see it like it is. And continue to refuse to humble yourself and admit one can not boast of faith. and see we are saved by faith, not works. Paul said it over and over in his epistles.. Yet you want to twist one verse and laugh at us..
forgive me for being blunt. But your attitude is quite harsh. So I figured I would give ya some back
It is obvious that it is works in which they may boast on not faith. That is why it says not of works lest anyone should boast. And you want to put this to faith?
In fact, Paul says the same thing in another chapter in the same book.
Romans 4 : 1 - 8 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Boasting by works. Belief or faith is how he was justified (righteous)
and even in chapter 3.
Rom 3:20 - 24..Therfore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified. For by the law is knowledge of sin. but now the rightiousness of God apart from the law is revealed being witnessed by the law and the prophets even the rightiousness of God through faith in Christ to all on on all who believe for their is no difference.
Again, Justified by faith.
Why don't you face it. No one would see it the way you do unless they were indoctrinated into that belief. Sentance structure does not allow us to see it your way.
Who boasts in faith in someone else doing ALL THE WORK? No one.
Oh they do? show me someone who boasts in faith in Christ alone? I have never met anyone.
You boast in your election. what does that make you?
Only in your religion would faith in someone else be counted as a work. No one in their right mind would consider total faith in someone else to do ALL the work something one could boast in. In fact it goes against human nature to even allow us to do this. Our nature says we must save ourself. thus to trust someone else is totally against our nature, thus the ability to boast is negated..
yeah it is comical. to see you twist scripture, and make comments which do not make sense to no one but yourself and those like you.
yeah it is a waste. to think you would see it like it is. And continue to refuse to humble yourself and admit one can not boast of faith. and see we are saved by faith, not works. Paul said it over and over in his epistles.. Yet you want to twist one verse and laugh at us..
forgive me for being blunt. But your attitude is quite harsh. So I figured I would give ya some back
The faith IS the work.
"Faith without works is dead".
Grace is NOT a human work. - (Thus no room for boasting)
Salvation is NOT a human work. ('' - - - - - - - - ")
Belief IS a work.
Faith IS an action.
No one boasts in their faith? - Have you ever heard of the prosperity doctrine?
I'm harsh? - (I though I was holding back)
"Faith without works is dead".
Grace is NOT a human work. - (Thus no room for boasting)
Salvation is NOT a human work. ('' - - - - - - - - ")
Belief IS a work.
Faith IS an action.
No one boasts in their faith? - Have you ever heard of the prosperity doctrine?
I'm harsh? - (I though I was holding back)