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Can Someone Explain Rev. 12:1-6 to Me?
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Look at those who use scripture to prove what they are saying. Anyone else who does not use scripture is only using guess work theology. Search the scriptures yourself to verify the truth of what is being said. For the truth shall set you free from the precepts (opinions) of man.
1Christianwarrior316
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peterT
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Interesting, that’s what the religious society keeps telling me, but I have trouble believing men with big long hats and long flowing dresses or for that matter men in suits and Rolex watches.
Its simple, the woman is the church that flees into the wilderness and the remnant of her seed, are the Christians that don’t flee into the wilderness and loved not their lives unto the death.
For there is only one body the church, and there is no respect of persons with God, and there is nether Jew or Greek in Christ Jesus
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peterT
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I am doing no more than what you are doing to me, so that would make you a bit of a hypocrite for even saying it.
Just following Jesus’s example and putting a bit of an axe to some of the root of the tree
And taking a leaf from Jeremiah, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.
http://christianchat.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34551&d=1350080620
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RachelBibleStudent
Guest
the woman in revelation 12 is israel...more specifically the believing israelites... the twelve stars are the twelve tribes...the imagery goes back to joseph's dreams...
she gives birth to the child in the vision...just like the messiah came from the people of israel...
maybe i can post a more detailed interpretation of the whole chapter later...
she gives birth to the child in the vision...just like the messiah came from the people of israel...
maybe i can post a more detailed interpretation of the whole chapter later...
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Ariel82
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peterT
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Matthew 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
2000 years since the Governor came to rule his people Israel, and who is He ruling over us Christians
Spiritual Israel us Christians
And WHAT dose God separate Jewish Christians from none Jewish Christians I think not
No peterT he is not being a hypocrite but bearing witness of how you treat your fellow brethern on this forum when they disagree with your doctrine. Of how you use God's Word to condemn your fellow brethern who disagree with you and your doctrine.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
You know brother I love you, forgive you, and will pray for you, and ask others to do the same, that you can come to truly understand what the Love of Christ is and how you should treat your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ even those you disagree with.
God Bless,
1Christianwarrior316
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Yourfriend4life
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AgeofKnowledge
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Even if I were guilty of your false allegation, which I am not, you would still have a responsibility as a Christian not to return evil for evil. But you actually return evil for good. That's how far out of alignment with God's Word you are in this matter.
But I've seen it before.... this narcissistic personality disorder. Usually NPD sufferers have zero friends, like you, and spend their time issuing proclamations of condemnation upon all who they disagree with as you do. Then when they are called to account for this ungodly behavior, they turn on those calling them to account with ad hominem as you are doing.
It's classified as a mental disorder but often takes the form of the prideful arrogance you are exhibiting. The good news is that cognitive behavioral therapy is available and can help you when you're ready to leave your ungodliness behind to become a more godly person.
But I've seen it before.... this narcissistic personality disorder. Usually NPD sufferers have zero friends, like you, and spend their time issuing proclamations of condemnation upon all who they disagree with as you do. Then when they are called to account for this ungodly behavior, they turn on those calling them to account with ad hominem as you are doing.
It's classified as a mental disorder but often takes the form of the prideful arrogance you are exhibiting. The good news is that cognitive behavioral therapy is available and can help you when you're ready to leave your ungodliness behind to become a more godly person.
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Therapon, did you see this yet?
'Boom, boom, boom everywhere... kill': Chilling words of British Muslim terrorists' ringleader as he plotted to murder 2,000 people in Al-Qaeda-backed atrocity in supermarkets and town centres
Irfan Naseer, 31, Irfan Khalid, 27, and Ashik Ali, 27, wanted 'to rival 9/11'
Ringleaders spent years travelling to Pakistan for 'terror training'
Al-Qaeda backed group made videos to play after they blew themselves up
Terror cell raised funds by posing as bogus charity workers in street
Plotted 'spectacular campaign' from makeshift bomb factory in council flat
Eight suicide bombers would have claimed more lives than 7/7, police say
But deadly plan was discovered after bugs were planted in Birmingham flat
Police then found explosives in Midlands when plot was at advanced stage
Three British Muslims found guilty of plotting 'another 7/7' terrorist attack with team of 8 suicide bombers | Mail Online
'Boom, boom, boom everywhere... kill': Chilling words of British Muslim terrorists' ringleader as he plotted to murder 2,000 people in Al-Qaeda-backed atrocity in supermarkets and town centres
Irfan Naseer, 31, Irfan Khalid, 27, and Ashik Ali, 27, wanted 'to rival 9/11'
Ringleaders spent years travelling to Pakistan for 'terror training'
Al-Qaeda backed group made videos to play after they blew themselves up
Terror cell raised funds by posing as bogus charity workers in street
Plotted 'spectacular campaign' from makeshift bomb factory in council flat
Eight suicide bombers would have claimed more lives than 7/7, police say
But deadly plan was discovered after bugs were planted in Birmingham flat
Police then found explosives in Midlands when plot was at advanced stage
Three British Muslims found guilty of plotting 'another 7/7' terrorist attack with team of 8 suicide bombers | Mail Online
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
Here's another "fresh" one:
US jury convicts 4 Somali men of terrorist support
US jury convicts 4 Somali men of terrorist support - seattlepi.com
US jury convicts 4 Somali men of terrorist support
US jury convicts 4 Somali men of terrorist support - seattlepi.com
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Therapon
Guest
Oh I see, so there are different levels of spiritual binding, higher for the Apostles and lower for us plebeians. You won't find that in Scripture anywhere. In fact, Peter called himself just a "fellow elder," putting himself on the same level as an ordinary Gentile church elder . . .
1Peter 5:1 ASV "The elders among you I exhort, who am a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, who am also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed."
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Therapon
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Yes, you can see that and worse on creepingsharia.com. I am a member so I get bulletins from them every day.
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Laodicea
Guest
The woman in Revelation 12 cannot be just christians although it includes them. Verse 1 the woman gives birth to Christ. If it was just the christian church then how was Christ born before the church even existed?
Acts 7:38 KJV
(38) This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
The church according to this verse is referring to Israel. The question is who is the true Israel?
Romans 2:28-29 KJV
(28) For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
(29) But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
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Therapon
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Don't think I'd use "ad hominem" on the thread. Some might think it's a food, like hominy grits, that you stir in with your breakfact eggs. <wry smile>
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AgeofKnowledge
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Pilgrimer
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My understanding is that the woman was faithful Israel (as opposed to apostate Israel who was represented by the harlot woman of Revelation 17 -18). She, faithful Israel, gave birth to Jesus whom Satan tried to destroy as soon as he was born (the slaughter of the innocents at Bethlehem). Jesus being caught up the throne speaks of Jesus' ascension to the right hand of God. The woman fleeing into the wilderness speaks of the faithful Jews who fled when they saw the Roman armies advancing upon Jerusalem and sheltered in the wilderness of Perea for the last 3 1/2 years of the war.
The woman is described as being clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and crowned with 12 stars based on the prophetic dream Joseph had in Genesis 37:9-11.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
The woman is described as being clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and crowned with 12 stars based on the prophetic dream Joseph had in Genesis 37:9-11.
In Christ,
Pilgrimer
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AgeofKnowledge
Guest
I haven't read all of the posts in this thread nor understand everyone's position fully but I have noticed that prophecy tends to be one of the most divisive issues amongst Christians. Not good.
When I look at the imagery of Revelation 12:1–6, specifically the woman “clothed with the sun” who gives birth to a son whom a dragon tries to devour it seems to draw on a myth about the sun god which occurred in various forms in the Mediterranean world and depicted the battle between good and evil.
Of course, some Roman emperors claimed identification with the sun god. Is John using the imagery combined with imagery from the Old Testament to claim that Jesus is the true Savior from evil here?
The Roman Catholics assert the first century church was dominated by asceticism and that Mary epitomized the virtues of the celibate life arguing this as an ideal to which all Christians should aspire though the latter presumption appears to overstate what the Bible actually teaches.
But that's why Roman Catholics depict Mary as the Queen of Heaven. They argue that as perpetual virgin, her body and soul are triumphantly assumed into heaven, where she is crowned. The proof text used to support their assumption is the ambiguous reference in Revelation 12:1: “A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head” (NIV).
From heaven Mary acts as protector and powerful intercessor. Above the central doorway Christ sits in judgment, while on his left Mary and John pray at the foot of the cross. Thus Mary intercedes as spiritual mother. She is viewed as a co-redemptrix who collaborates intimately with Christian redemption.
The Protestant viewpoint is that this is fanciful conjecture. I certainly think it is. When I study antiquity, I see the imagery of a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet and twelve stars above her head, and a dragon in the sky that throws a third of the stars down to earth clearly reflecting ancient sources.
These were known not only to writers of the Old testament but also to all the nations of the Middle East and were utilized in many ways. Common to all of them was the concept of a monster of the sea who fought the gods of heaven and sought to overthrow them. The imagery is clear in such a passage as Isaiah 27:1: “The Lord with his cruel and great sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will kill the dragon that is in the sea.” The vision of the world empires in Daniel 7 that are symbolized by beasts that emerge from the sea, culminating in a fearful adversary of God and man, is an application of that same imagery to a contemporary tyrant who not only oppressed God’s people but also sought world domination.
Has anyone read, N. D. O’Donoghue, “A Woman Clothed with the Sun,” Furrow 11 (1960)?
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When I look at the imagery of Revelation 12:1–6, specifically the woman “clothed with the sun” who gives birth to a son whom a dragon tries to devour it seems to draw on a myth about the sun god which occurred in various forms in the Mediterranean world and depicted the battle between good and evil.
Of course, some Roman emperors claimed identification with the sun god. Is John using the imagery combined with imagery from the Old Testament to claim that Jesus is the true Savior from evil here?
The Roman Catholics assert the first century church was dominated by asceticism and that Mary epitomized the virtues of the celibate life arguing this as an ideal to which all Christians should aspire though the latter presumption appears to overstate what the Bible actually teaches.
But that's why Roman Catholics depict Mary as the Queen of Heaven. They argue that as perpetual virgin, her body and soul are triumphantly assumed into heaven, where she is crowned. The proof text used to support their assumption is the ambiguous reference in Revelation 12:1: “A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head” (NIV).
From heaven Mary acts as protector and powerful intercessor. Above the central doorway Christ sits in judgment, while on his left Mary and John pray at the foot of the cross. Thus Mary intercedes as spiritual mother. She is viewed as a co-redemptrix who collaborates intimately with Christian redemption.
The Protestant viewpoint is that this is fanciful conjecture. I certainly think it is. When I study antiquity, I see the imagery of a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet and twelve stars above her head, and a dragon in the sky that throws a third of the stars down to earth clearly reflecting ancient sources.
These were known not only to writers of the Old testament but also to all the nations of the Middle East and were utilized in many ways. Common to all of them was the concept of a monster of the sea who fought the gods of heaven and sought to overthrow them. The imagery is clear in such a passage as Isaiah 27:1: “The Lord with his cruel and great sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will kill the dragon that is in the sea.” The vision of the world empires in Daniel 7 that are symbolized by beasts that emerge from the sea, culminating in a fearful adversary of God and man, is an application of that same imagery to a contemporary tyrant who not only oppressed God’s people but also sought world domination.
Has anyone read, N. D. O’Donoghue, “A Woman Clothed with the Sun,” Furrow 11 (1960)?
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