This is to whom the shoe fits.

[eternally-gratefull]

Therapon does not teach what you have said and either you are misrepresenting what he said or you don't understand.
Enough said!

lol.. so your just as blind as he is? this is what he said.

Contrary to popular belief, the observant Jews of the Christian era do trust in Jesus. They call Him their Messiah and they are looking for Him just like you and I are. They just don’t know that He already came here once to die, and they don’t know His New Testament name

not the problems.

1. they are looking for Jesus. Jesus who? the OT did not give us his name
2. They do not know he came.. why? they rejected him. they are trying to make themselves right with God by the law.. just like their fathers who crucified and rejected him did, it is why they rejected him.. the jews today would crucify him again, because they still reject his message.

enough said is right.. You proved you either

1. do not know what he says, and are blind to what he believes
2. believe like him, and are just as dangerous as he is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." -Acts 4:12

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5

now if only therepon believes this, maybe people would listen to other things he said and we could have a conversation

 

[zone]

Lutheran here

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

You once stated that you were of Jewish ethnicity if I remember correctly. If that is true, it is somewhat ironic to find a Lutheran of Jewish ethnicity given Luther's rantings against the Jews.

I mean no offense or disrespect. One simply wonders how a person of Jewish ethnicity balances Luther and his follower's anti-Jewishness within Lutheranism.

I am not of Jewish ethnicity but if I were, I would most likely seek another denomination.

Lutheran here

 

[zone]

You once stated that you were of Jewish ethnicity if I remember correctly. If that is true, it is somewhat ironic to find a Lutheran of Jewish ethnicity given Luther's rantings against the Jews.

I mean no offense or disrespect. One simply wonders how a person of Jewish ethnicity balances Luther and his follower's anti-Jewishness within Lutheranism.

I am not of Jewish ethnicity but if I were, I would most likely seek another denomination.

oh you have got to be kidding.
here we go again.
mkay.

ashkenazi on my mom's side, non-observant.
assimiliated.

Luther was for the jews til he found the Talmud.
look it up yourself.

and what's that got to do with Lutheranism?
nobody talks about Luther OR jews....they preached Christ and Him Crucified.

LOL


a-a-a-a-anyways.....tag me antisemitic via Luther, or for any other reason if you want to. i don't care.
ppl don't even know what it MEANS!

no, this is a good day
weather, sunny and mild.
outlook, sunny and joyous.

 

[tribesman]

...I am not of Jewish ethnicity but if I were, I would most likely seek another denomination.

Guess you've heard of Richard Wurmbrand?

 

[zone]

oh it's just so much easier to spew the narrative tribesman
everybody's doing it.

anyhow.

off to another thread - a non-racial-tribal supremacy thread.
comin'?

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I'm not kidding exactly because I don't fully understand what it means. That's why I'm asking and commenting. But I am slowly gaining a better understanding over time.

I see what you're saying about assimilated non-observant. I've met many Jewish professionals and workers here in SoCal, since 1990 when my education advancements took me into white collar career jobs, that were assimilated and non-observant.

When I would go to their family get togethers though lots of orthodox looking Jewish family would be there. There are also moderately-sized Messianic congregations and even evangelical churches that boast an ethnicity mostly comprised of Jewish people as well as pilot evangelical "house" churches with several hundred Jewish folk like David Hocking's "church" that meets in the big Salvation Army headquarters in OC.

These were all either secular or Christian people I was directly associated with or friends with. Their family members; however, were often Orthodox Jews.

Except for the rare conversations I've had with conservative Jews like Ben Shapiro and once with Jonah Goldberg, they were all flaming liberals and that was a point of argumentative contention often that bred very lively discussions because I am an independent classical conservative (not a neo-conservative Republican).

In that link I provided from the Jewish virtual library, it clearly states that Luther was for the Jews until he discovered they weren't going to convert. Then, things got ugly.

I'm not sure what you mean by Luther discovered the Talmud. I need more narrative on exactly what he discovered that made him react so vehemently against the Jews or at least a source that I can go read.

Of course, I completely agree with you that only in Christ is salvation found and the benefits of a direct indwelling of the Holy Spirit through regeneration in Christ. So, I do understand not wanting to enable a wrong point of view and watch people go to hell because of it. I get it.

I don't tag you antisemitic. I just don't completely understand the powerful emotions against Jews that haven't found Christ yet though I have to admit I see that in the Bible from Jesus, Paul, and the apostles when the non-Christian Jews (and gentiles too) are impeding ministry.

I don't doubt a person can be both of Jewish ethnicity and Lutheran. That was never on my mind. It was how one balances the Lutheran teaching against Jews and the bias in Lutheranism from Lutherans toward Jews that I didn't fully grasp. Maybe you just build good relationships with the people in your assembly and it works itself out.

The sun is great today. I just got back in. Beautiful blue skies. Peace.

oh you have got to be kidding.
here we go again.
mkay.

ashkenazi on my mom's side, non-observant.
assimiliated.

Luther was for the jews til he found the Talmud.
look it up yourself.

and what's that got to do with Lutheranism?
nobody talks about Luther OR jews....they preached Christ and Him Crucified.

LOL


a-a-a-a-anyways.....tag me antisemitic via Luther, or for any other reason if you want to. i don't care.
ppl don't even know what it MEANS!

no, this is a good day
weather, sunny and mild.
outlook, sunny and joyous.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Yes I have. He's one of the best and most influential Christian pastors to come out from behind the Iron Curtain. He pastored a church for many years here in SoCal before he finally left to be with the Lord. I read his books and saw his film clips and knew that he was Romanian and initially associated with the Anglican denomination but I did not know that he was Jewish. But, sure enough, it's true.

Guess you've heard of Richard Wurmbrand?

 

[Therapon]

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." -Acts 4:12

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." 1 Timothy 2:5

I completely agree. Now you need to figure out how I absolutely agree with that, 100%, and still teach what I do, because both are true.

 

[Professor]

Just FYI:
Luther does not teach "grace devoid of human responsibility."

You won't find mch of those 'fruits' here..others here seem to worry about gifts of the spirit,fruit of the spirit,grace devoid of human reponsibility,and other things that will not bring salvation..Honestly, this should be called,Lutheranchat,calvinist chat,or charismatic chat..that's what this forum is inundated with.
Sorry you had tough times here..you're not alone.

 

[zone]

I'm not kidding exactly because I don't fully understand what it means. That's why I'm asking and commenting. But I am slowly gaining a better understanding over time.

I see what you're saying about assimilated non-observant. I've met many Jewish professionals and workers here in SoCal, since 1990 when my education advancements took me into white collar career jobs, that were assimilated and non-observant.

When I would go to their family get togethers though lots of orthodox looking Jewish family would be there. There are also moderately-sized Messianic congregations and even evangelical churches that boast an ethnicity mostly comprised of Jewish people as well as pilot evangelical "house" churches with several hundred Jewish folk like David Hocking's "church" that meets in the big Salvation Army headquarters in OC.

These were all either secular or Christian people I was directly associated with or friends with. Their family members; however, were often Orthodox Jews.

Except for the rare conversations I've had with conservative Jews like Ben Shapiro and once with Jonah Goldberg, they were all flaming liberals and that was a point of argumentative contention often that bred very lively discussions because I am an independent classical conservative (not a neo-conservative Republican).

In that link I provided from the Jewish virtual library, it clearly states that Luther was for the Jews until he discovered they weren't going to convert. Then, things got ugly.

I'm not sure what you mean by Luther discovered the Talmud. I need more narrative on exactly what he discovered that made him react so vehemently against the Jews or at least a source that I can go read.

Of course, I completely agree with you that only in Christ is salvation found and the benefits of a direct indwelling of the Holy Spirit through regeneration in Christ. So, I do understand not wanting to enable a wrong point of view and watch people go to hell because of it. I get it.

I don't tag you antisemitic. I just don't completely understand the powerful emotions against Jews that haven't found Christ yet though I have to admit I see that in the Bible from Jesus, Paul, and the apostles when the non-Christian Jews (and gentiles too) are impeding ministry.

I don't doubt a person can be both of Jewish ethnicity and Lutheran. That was never on my mind. It was how one balances the Lutheran teaching against Jews and the bias in Lutheranism from Lutherans toward Jews that I didn't fully grasp. Maybe you just build good relationships with the people in your assembly and it works itself out.

The sun is great today. I just got back in. Beautiful blue skies. Peace.

AoK.
when i say assimilated, i mean when my gradma's family moved to Canada they changed their last names.
there was no contact with jewish anything. why they chose that i don't know.

if there's something you want to ask me directly about strong feelings, go ahead.
be specific.

for the most part, ALL i'm trying to do is get a level playing field for everybody. if ppl would stop setting jews either off to the side as victims and losers, or conversely elevated as preferred by God, we'd have exactly what we should have.

a dialogue about ALL false religions, what's wrong with them, what's right about them, how religious and tribal groups work, political issues facing our nations....etc etc....without the emotionally charged rhetoric that automatically ruins any discussion of anything when it comes to to jewish-anything or Judaism.

so when ppl start discussing the subject calmly and rationally, i do too.

when ppl blindly go into pavolovian mode to the point od=f denying certain realities...i have no choice but to stay firm.
and it ends up exactly where all those discussions end up.

shelved - with battle lines drawn.
but, that's planned also.

anyways...pm me if you want, or make a thread and enforce it to keep half-informed shills from either side from derailing. cuz that's where it goes EVERY time.
ttyl.
z

 

[Tommy4Christ]

This is probably my final post, and it is to whomever the shoe fits.

On this forum, my views have been so misrepresented and I’ve been lied about so egregiously that to clear the air, here is my theology, vis-à-vis the Jews.

Contrary to popular belief, the observant Jews of the Christian era do trust in Jesus. They call Him their Messiah and they are looking for Him just like you and I are. They just don’t know that He already came here once to die, and they don’t know His New Testament name because they have been sovereignly blinded by God to the New Testament Gospel (Romans 11: 8). But according to some here, the Jews are lost because they don’t have that head knowledge and aren’t worshipping Jesus according to their doctrine.

During World War II, Menachem Begin was a prisoner in the Warsaw ghetto. He watched as those Nazi butchers drove his parents and 500 other Jews into the Warsaw River and machine gunned them down. As the blood of those precious people stained that river red, they had their hands raised toward heaven and were singing that beautifully touching Jewish hymn, “Oh how we love our Messiah and long for his appearance.” So who do you suppose they were singing about?

If you think for one moment that our beloved Savior who died “not for our sins only, but for the sins of the whole world” didn’t reach down and save those dying Jews who were calling upon Him by the only name they knew, then you indeed serve a different God than I do.

Personally, I’m saddened by the argumentative, disrespectful, doctrinal arrogance that I have been subjected to while here. Angry in spirit sometimes, but it was not my anger. You believe you are born again because you hold doctrines approved by the group. But salvation is not in your doctrines, it is in having a humble and contrite heart towards God, of which I see little. Where are the fruits of the Spirit, the longsuffering, gentleness, mercy, the true indicators that the Lord has replaced your hearts of stone with hearts of flesh?

Yes God knows their heart, just as He knew the theif on the cross who was broken, humble, and crying out through a contrite and broken spirit, so we do not know where these Jewish peoples heart were, but God does, and He saves those who are real before Him. Yielding to His great mercy in repentance!

I know you are not teaching God saves all mankind who has rejected His truth all their life, and lived a godless life, and could not find repentance, such as Esau!

Jesus said few would be saved, not many, no such thing as universal salvation, but He gives all men everywhere the chance to seek Him, and yield to His convicting spirit!

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, but not for those who reject Him and His truth as He waits, while they still have breath to repent, and follow Him!

 

[Professor]

I cannot speak to Luther's anti-semitism. I know that my Lutheran church absolutely does not teach anti-semitism. I, too, have Jewish roots. If most Lutherans, following Luther, are anti-semitic (and I don't know) then I need to find a new church. As a recently saved Christian I definitely want to know. I'd like other Lutherans to weigh in on this. I will also research this myself. Thanks Age of Knowledge for bringing this to our attention.

You once stated that you were of Jewish ethnicity if I remember correctly. If that is true, it is somewhat ironic to find a Lutheran of Jewish ethnicity given Luther's rantings against the Jews.

I mean no offense or disrespect. One simply wonders how a person of Jewish ethnicity balances Luther and his follower's anti-Jewishness within Lutheranism.

I am not of Jewish ethnicity but if I were, I would most likely seek another denomination.

 

[SarahM777]

I cannot speak to Luther's anti-semitism. I know that my Lutheran church absolutely does not teach anti-semitism. I, too, have Jewish roots. If most Lutherans, following Luther, are anti-semitic (and I don't know) then I need to find a new church. As a recently saved Christian I definitely want to know. I'd like other Lutherans to weigh in on this. I will also research this myself. Thanks Age of Knowledge for bringing this to our attention.

I was brought up in a Lutheran church and school (Nine years of parochial school) not one of my teachers or pastors taught it so.... (Four different Lutheran churches) I changed churches when I moved.

 

[zone]

I cannot speak to Luther's anti-semitism. I know that my Lutheran church absolutely does not teach anti-semitism. I, too, have Jewish roots. If most Lutherans, following Luther, are anti-semitic (and I don't know) then I need to find a new church. As a recently saved Christian I definitely want to know. I'd like other Lutherans to weigh in on this. I will also research this myself. Thanks Age of Knowledge for bringing this to our attention.

it's complete nonsense.
Luther ranted against Muslims and Papists as well.
Lutheran churches don't teach or preach any of that (about any people, including Rome) - those are Luther's own thoughts and words.

like his hard speeches or not, he's making points.
ppl are all too happy to say the same about Muslims or Papists today, but Talmudists are off limits.

but everybody decides for themselves.

i suggest finding about about each religion - by studying the religion itself.
not what Luther or some Imam or Rabbi says.

look at all the body of texts and writings.
Judaism has as many if not more serious issues internally as well as toward the world of outsiders as Islam or RC.
if ppl don't like hearing that, what can be said?
don't examine the religions!

that's my take.

Luther first wrote "Jesus Christ was Born A Jew" and he is compassionate and concerned about jews' unbelief, which he blamed on the Catholic Church. he rants FOR the jews there.

later he found out something different. either study this issue thoroughly, and read and check what is said or don't do it at all....nothing is more dangerous than half-truths and buzzwords.

 

[Professor]

Thanks for this!

I was brought up in a Lutheran church and school (Nine years of parochial school) not one of my teachers or pastors taught it so.... (Four different Lutheran churches) I changed churches when I moved.

 

[Professor]

Thank you Zone!

it's complete nonsense.
Luther ranted against Muslims and Papists as well.
Lutheran churches don't teach or preach any of that (about any people, including Rome) - those are Luther's own thoughts and words.

like his hard speeches or not, he's making points.
ppl are all too happy to say the same about Muslims or Papists to day, but Talmudists are off limits.

but everybody decides for themselves.

i suggest finding about about each religion - by studying the religion itself.
not what Luther or some Imam or Rabbi says.

look at all the body of texts and writings.
Judaism has as many if not more serious issues internally as well as toward the world of outsiders as Islam or RC.
if ppl don't like hearing that, what can be said?
don't examine the religions!

that's my take.

Luther first wrote "Jesus Christ was Born A Jew" and he is compassionate and concerned about their unbelief, which he blamed on the Catholic Church. later he found out something different. either study this issue thoroughly, and read and check what is said or don't do it at all....nothing is more dangerous than half-truths and buzzwords.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Makes sense zone. I'll pm if after research, I still have a questions but I understand what you're saying. Hold everyone to God's standard. Makes SENSE.

I didn't mean to fire anyone up. We live in an age of knowledge but that doesn't mean AgeofKnowledge knows everything there is to know yet: just a great deal of it... lol.

 

[Therapon]

Yes God knows their heart, just as He knew the theif on the cross who was broken, humble, and crying out through a contrite and broken spirit, so we do not know where these Jewish peoples heart were, but God does, and He saves those who are real before Him. I know you are not teaching God saves all mankind who has rejected His truth all their life, and lived a godless life, and could not find repentance, such as Esau!

Exactly! Finally some truth. Thank you, sir!