T
Therapon
Guest
<sigh> you guys read Romans 11:8 and 11:28-32 once more. Jews cannot reject what sovereign God has prevented them from seeing. How many tiimes do I have to reference those verses before you believe them?
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T
Therapon
Guest
You don't understand that at all. Just repent from your heresies and you'll be better off.
T
Therapon
Guest
Fortunately, my soul rests in Jesus, though I understand, if it were up to you, that I would be destined for damnation. The Church has always felt that way towards any who disagreed with their cherished doctrines, burning many of the brethren at the stake for their beliefs.
Pity yourself and play martyr as much as you like, it won't change any facts. Not the fact that you are teaching damnable heresy. If your jesus is the same "messiah" as the Christ-rejecting jews believe in, then you're into big trouble. Nuff' said.
T
Therapon
Guest
Those are strong words, sir. I do not lie. Fortunately, it's not up to you whether I perish or not, but up to my Lord Jesus.
T
Therapon
Guest
LOL, I guess you and Zone both consider it your mission in life to prove what I write is in error. Well, go to my site, ellisskolfield.com, download the Bible prophecy Study Guide on the home page and prove your contention from the Bible and history. Otherwise you are just a biting mosquito.
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P
PastrMark
Guest
Hi Therapon,
I agree with you. I am new, just arrived and you post is the very first I saw~!.
The Apostle Paul makes it very clear in the 1st and 2nd chapter of Romans that God has given both the light of Conscience and the light of Creation. That is God has built knowledge of Himself in the form of conviction in the mind of every human, whom He formed in our mother's womb..."fearfully and wonderfully made". He then pointed our consciences to the heavens which "declare His glory".
He then promises, as we respond to the light given...to give us more light.
In other words, if God will do this for a tribal people who do not even know God the way we do somewhere in Africa or Central America, etc...then does He save those who were first called by His name, whom He came to first and loves with an everlasting love even though they may not know He came "in the flesh and dwelt among us"? John 1:14 ABSOLUTELY HE WILL~!
I am a conservative, evangelical pastor who has studied the scriptures for years and I absolutely agree with you. You have not been disrespectful in your last response that I see here...but I have seen some of the disrespectful responses that you have received in return...and for that...I'm very sorry.
This is not how I wanted to be introduced into christianchat.com
I love you my brother. Please keep keeping on~!
Perhaps we will get to talk if you choose to come and post again or chat. God Bless you~!
I agree with you. I am new, just arrived and you post is the very first I saw~!.
The Apostle Paul makes it very clear in the 1st and 2nd chapter of Romans that God has given both the light of Conscience and the light of Creation. That is God has built knowledge of Himself in the form of conviction in the mind of every human, whom He formed in our mother's womb..."fearfully and wonderfully made". He then pointed our consciences to the heavens which "declare His glory".
He then promises, as we respond to the light given...to give us more light.
In other words, if God will do this for a tribal people who do not even know God the way we do somewhere in Africa or Central America, etc...then does He save those who were first called by His name, whom He came to first and loves with an everlasting love even though they may not know He came "in the flesh and dwelt among us"? John 1:14 ABSOLUTELY HE WILL~!
I am a conservative, evangelical pastor who has studied the scriptures for years and I absolutely agree with you. You have not been disrespectful in your last response that I see here...but I have seen some of the disrespectful responses that you have received in return...and for that...I'm very sorry.
This is not how I wanted to be introduced into christianchat.com
I love you my brother. Please keep keeping on~!
Perhaps we will get to talk if you choose to come and post again or chat. God Bless you~!
T
Therapon
Guest
Tribesman, I'm sorry I said that and apologize. I know you are doing the best you can. I'd just had enough attacks for one day and lost my cool. <sigh>
T
Therapon
Guest
Brother, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your post. Thank you, and may the Lorf bless you and your ministry as well. I'll be glad to chat with you anytime. You might find my profile interesting. Though I am long retired, we serve the same Master and are in the same service.
Ellis Skolfield
Therapon, do you say that the 'blinded' Jews will be reconciled through belief in the Messiah?
Romans 11
those same ten “lost” tribes
Faulty Premise #1
THE TEN TRIBES WERE NEVER GEOGRAPHICALLY LOST.
Ezekiel 37:16-17
"Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand."
The prophesy is clear, both Judah and Israel would be joined again as one. So where are these 10 tribes now? In reading Theological material you are likely to come upon every myth concerning the 10 'alleged' lost tribes of Israel that you can imagine. They are purported to be everyone from the British, the Japanese, the Scots, the American Indians, to the Mormons. But the claim that the tribes of Israel are now literally some other race is ludicrous. Biblically as well as rationally, for Jews are Jews. What happened to these 10 tribes is a matter of biblical record. What does the Bible have to say concerning Israel and Judah.
Jeremiah 50:4-6
"In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.
They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual covenant that shall not be forgotten.
My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace."
Clearly, God at the fall of babylon prophesies of both Israel and Judah returning as lost sheep to the fold (a type, prefiguring Christ's gathering the children out of bondage at His coming). It is clear that both Houses were restored, and for any theologian to argue that only Judah was restored is to make a mockery of the plain text of Scripture. God is letting us know that all the tribes of Israel (without loss) is represented here. The Remnant as prophesied, not the whole body 'as imagined.' As also Ezra clearly illustrates.
Ezra 6:17
"And offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel."
Ezra 8:35
"Also the children of those that had been carried away, which were come out of the captivity, offered burnt offerings unto the God of Israel, twelve bullocks for all Israel, ninety and six rams, seventy and seven lambs, twelve he goats for a sin offering: all this was a burnt offering unto the LORD."
This was not a split israel, sacrifice was offered for all of Israel that were there. Twelve bullocks, one for each tribe of the 'children of those who were carried away,' They have come out of captivity. After the Babylonian captivity the terms "Jew" and "Israelite" are used interchangeably. That is not rhetoric, that is a biblically illustrated fact! This was a shadow of Christ's coming to deliver Israel from bondage in freeing the captivity. To seek and to gather the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
The type Prefigured the True which was to Come
One of the primary questions is, why is it important to know what happened to the 10 northern tribes of Israel? Well, there are many reasons, not the least of which is that the lost tribes of Israel prefigures the lost sheep of Israel, who when Jesus Christ (the greater Cyrus) would come, would seek and return them to the restored kingdom, fulfilling the prophesy of the throne of David.
Acts 1:6
"When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"
They were asking Jesus when Israel would again become a restored Kingdom. Unlike man today, they understood the literal Israel was not lost. And Indeed Christ had promised the 12 Apostles that they would sit judging the 12 tribes of Israel in the regeneration. They could hardly sit judging these tribes of Israel, if the 12 tribes were lost or not accounted for.
Matthew 19:28
"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
It is pretty clear Jesus is declaring that when He sits to rule on the throne of His Glory, the apostles would also sit as Kings and priests unto God to rule. And Christ clearly identifies the time of His sitting to rule in His Glory as, "in the regeneration." The question then is, biblically speaking, when is the regeneration? ..when does Christ reign in His Glory?
Titus 3:5
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he Saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"
John 17:4-5
"I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
1st Corinthians 15:25
"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."
This is when "the regeneration" occurs, according to God! What is the Regeneration? This is the Greek word [paliggenesia] taken from the root words [palin] meaning again or repeat, and [genesis] meaning a birth or nativity. In other words, to be born again. A spiritual nativity where they are made new by the Holy ghost. This is 'when' these apostles would reign as they sit on thrones to rule Israel. It is in the regeneration, or after being born again from the dead! Did they become kings and Priests unto God to sit and rule with Him when they were raised up with Christ by the Holy Ghost? The answer (according to scripture) is obvious.
Ephesians 2:6
"And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:"
When the apostles were regenerated, born again from above, they were raised up in Christ to sit and rule with Him on His throne in heaven. When Jesus Christ ascended to the throne of David to rule the kingdom, this fulfilled the prophesy of the restoration of the Kingdom of David, and Christ sitting on that throne of Glory. As is clearly illustrated in Acts:
Acts 2:29-31
"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."
The Prophesy spake not of an earthly reign on the throne of David, but spake of the resurrection of Christ to sit in on His throne in heaven, and the apostles raised up with Him to sit in heavenly places to rule. The gathering of 'the remnant' of the tribes of Israel. The Old Testament restoring of the twelve tribes to the land of their fathers was the "type" which the Greater Cyrus fulfilled. The Restoration of the Kingdom of God which the Apostles asked about, was accomplished in Christ being the seed of David who reconciled the dispersed to God in one body 'one Israel,' united by the Lion of the tribe of Judah. This was accomplished by His death, resurrection, and ascension to the throne. The regeneration has the 12 sit to rule with Christ, this anti-type of the type is made clear in such verses as Matthew chapter 15:
Matthew 15:24
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
A very open testimony to the fulfillment that this was the Messiah, and He came to fulfill the prophesy of restoring the Kingdom of Israel. Not in literal Israelites lost in some foreign land, but Spiritual Israel lost in a foreign land, which the lost northern tribes merely prefigured. Some 'cut off,' but a remnant returning. This also seen in the angel speaking to Mary of His purpose and His reign.
Luke 1:31-33
"And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end."
Just as Acts 2 said that this prophesy spake of the resurrection of Christ to Heaven to sit on the throne of David. And note, the reign is not a 1000 year earthly reign, but was prophesied to be a reign forever over the house of Jacob. Only a reign in the regeneration, in Glory, on the throne of God, qualifies! This is the 'only' kingdom of which there shall be no end. The fulfillment of the prophecy.
cont.....
A
Abiding
Guest
cont....
Were the tribes present in Israel when Jesus Came?
A good question. Because according to biblical prophecy, the return of the lost tribes of Israel signals the coming of the Messianic Kingdom. And when Christ came, he restored Israel by freeing the captivity from spiritual babylon, and brought the lost sheep of Israel home. For this anti-type to take place (Matthew 12:29), the type had to have taken place (Jeremiah 50:4-6). The lost of Israel had to be delivered from bondage and restored.
Matthew 15:24-28
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."
Was Jesus Looking all over the world for a lost race? Was He saying He came but for the house of Britan, of but for the house of japan, or but for the house of Ethiopia? No, it is quite obvious that the lost of Israel are not another particular race, they were right there in that nation. Others were considered dogs and swine! Yes, they eat of the crumbs off the masters table, but Israel was of the Jews. To the Jew first, and then to the Gentiles.
Matthew 10:5-7
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."
So then, how are the tribes of Israel lost, when God identifies the lost as in that nation? They were lost in that they were separated from God, 'not' that they were a people who were not yet accounted for. He has come to restore the Kingdom to the lost sheep of Israel, not gentiles, not the dispersed in Samaria, but it's plain Jesus is addressing the Jews as Israel, his lost people. Jew and was Israel synonymous.
Why is something so clear, so difficult for the indoctrinated to receive? The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah [6], and when Christ established the New Covenant Church, He brought that promise to it's fulfillment. Jesus Christ came into the world to redeem Israel and bring the restoration of the Kingdom, and that is precisely what He did.
Luke 1:68-69
"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he hath visited and redeemed his people. There is no distinction anymore. When the remnant from those 10 tribes returned with the remnant of Judah with Ezra they continued as the nation, and we see that there is not again that distinction. Judea and Jews have become totally synonymous with Israel. This could not be true if God wanted Israel different from Jews. The terms are used interchangeably, as Jesus plainly illustrates all through His ministry.
The only real question about their fate is the one which man invents to satisfy his appetite for mystery, fables, legend and tradition. Any conquered land has it's inhabitants subjugated, killed, deported or they are absorbed into the populace. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that it was any different in this case. The 10 tribes were likewise dispersed after their captivity, and the remnant of them returned and were again made one nation under God.
Moreover, isn't it literally ridiculous to claim that the 10 tribes are still lost when the Bible itself unambiguously demonstrates the absurdity of this, by naming people who are from these tribes?
Luke 2:36
"And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"
Here we have God himself speaking of a tribe in Israel which man in his 'arrogance' denies was in Israel and declares lost, yet to return. Asher was one of the 10 tribes of Israel. How then is the tribe lost? Obviously not in God's eyes, but in man's fables. Does this man Phanuel of the tribe of Aser not exist? Does his daughter Ana come from a tribe in a hole in the ground? No, quite obviously by the Word of God the tribes were still in Israel. Else the passage is nonsensical, and we cannot believe anything.
Even the Apostle Paul spoke of a united 12 tribes in the present, when he spoke of the promise of Christ.
Acts 26:6-7
"And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews."
Paul is speaking of Israel, and there is not the slightest hint of a lost portion, or tribe. Only in the minds of men were these tribes mysteriously lost. ..and that for their own purposes.
Acts 4:36
"And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Here again we have a man Joses who is of the tribe of Levi, while man claims this tribe is still lost! Paul himself is of the tribe Benjamin, so how many tribes are there? God numbers the tribe of Levi (revelation 17) as one of the 12 tribes sealed of God. Obviously not lost according to the 'authority' of God's Word, and one of the 12. Likewise Aser, clearly one of the 12 as demonstrated in Revelation chapter 7. That is to say, if we receive the Word of God as authority over myths and legends.
The indoctrinated retort, 'that's all is well and good, but what about the distinction between the Jews and Israel?' ..the moral of the story being, some things people want lost, even when they cannot be lost. As God (not I) clearly shows, after the restoration of the dispersed from captivity we find the terms 'Jews and Israel,' are synonymous. They are used to identify the exact same people, and this would be biblical confusion if we are to believe these theories. The New Testament writings call the same people Jews and Israel. A distinction is ludicrous. In Ezra after the restoration, the exact same people are called of God "Jews" and "Israel," and the exact same thing in Nehemiah [7]. And so, truly, where is the mystery? These Theologians are missing the point. Judea is a figure of Christ, without which none of them are Jews in God's defining of the term. And Christ being the Lion of the tribe of Judah, is what restores the kingdom and makes men Jews. It's not in their blood line, but in His.
Romans 2:28-29
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
The fact of the matter is, the New Testament gives no hint of alleged lost tribes of Israel.
And the terms "Hebrew," "Jew," and "Israelite" were and are used synonymously for the same people, as Paul himself so clearly demonstrated in his ministry [8]. We can only say, What distinction? Shall man put asunder what God has joined? Therefore we must conclude that by the preponderance of biblical evidence, there is no continuing distinction made today between Jews and Israel, and that the tribes of Israel were present in Israel when Jesus came to her.
The end of it all? God's Israelites are by Grace, not Race! The unconditional promises made to Israel have been fulfilled in Abraham's Seed! Not seeds as of many, but Seed as one one, Christ (galatians 3:16). Those who are in Christ are the blood-bought Israel of God, and these are those who constitute God's Elect, or Chosen people. Lost, but now found. Bound, but now free. Brought out of captivity in the Son Israel, called out of Egypt. This Son is not a geographical area nor a race, but Christ Jesus.
The 10 lost tribes of Israel < click
Were the tribes present in Israel when Jesus Came?
A good question. Because according to biblical prophecy, the return of the lost tribes of Israel signals the coming of the Messianic Kingdom. And when Christ came, he restored Israel by freeing the captivity from spiritual babylon, and brought the lost sheep of Israel home. For this anti-type to take place (Matthew 12:29), the type had to have taken place (Jeremiah 50:4-6). The lost of Israel had to be delivered from bondage and restored.
Matthew 15:24-28
"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour."
Was Jesus Looking all over the world for a lost race? Was He saying He came but for the house of Britan, of but for the house of japan, or but for the house of Ethiopia? No, it is quite obvious that the lost of Israel are not another particular race, they were right there in that nation. Others were considered dogs and swine! Yes, they eat of the crumbs off the masters table, but Israel was of the Jews. To the Jew first, and then to the Gentiles.
Matthew 10:5-7
"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand."
So then, how are the tribes of Israel lost, when God identifies the lost as in that nation? They were lost in that they were separated from God, 'not' that they were a people who were not yet accounted for. He has come to restore the Kingdom to the lost sheep of Israel, not gentiles, not the dispersed in Samaria, but it's plain Jesus is addressing the Jews as Israel, his lost people. Jew and was Israel synonymous.
Why is something so clear, so difficult for the indoctrinated to receive? The New Covenant was promised to Israel and Judah [6], and when Christ established the New Covenant Church, He brought that promise to it's fulfillment. Jesus Christ came into the world to redeem Israel and bring the restoration of the Kingdom, and that is precisely what He did.
Luke 1:68-69
"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he hath visited and redeemed his people. There is no distinction anymore. When the remnant from those 10 tribes returned with the remnant of Judah with Ezra they continued as the nation, and we see that there is not again that distinction. Judea and Jews have become totally synonymous with Israel. This could not be true if God wanted Israel different from Jews. The terms are used interchangeably, as Jesus plainly illustrates all through His ministry.
The only real question about their fate is the one which man invents to satisfy his appetite for mystery, fables, legend and tradition. Any conquered land has it's inhabitants subjugated, killed, deported or they are absorbed into the populace. There is absolutely no reason to suspect that it was any different in this case. The 10 tribes were likewise dispersed after their captivity, and the remnant of them returned and were again made one nation under God.
Moreover, isn't it literally ridiculous to claim that the 10 tribes are still lost when the Bible itself unambiguously demonstrates the absurdity of this, by naming people who are from these tribes?
Luke 2:36
"And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"
Here we have God himself speaking of a tribe in Israel which man in his 'arrogance' denies was in Israel and declares lost, yet to return. Asher was one of the 10 tribes of Israel. How then is the tribe lost? Obviously not in God's eyes, but in man's fables. Does this man Phanuel of the tribe of Aser not exist? Does his daughter Ana come from a tribe in a hole in the ground? No, quite obviously by the Word of God the tribes were still in Israel. Else the passage is nonsensical, and we cannot believe anything.
Even the Apostle Paul spoke of a united 12 tribes in the present, when he spoke of the promise of Christ.
Acts 26:6-7
"And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God unto our fathers:
Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews."
Paul is speaking of Israel, and there is not the slightest hint of a lost portion, or tribe. Only in the minds of men were these tribes mysteriously lost. ..and that for their own purposes.
Acts 4:36
"And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
Here again we have a man Joses who is of the tribe of Levi, while man claims this tribe is still lost! Paul himself is of the tribe Benjamin, so how many tribes are there? God numbers the tribe of Levi (revelation 17) as one of the 12 tribes sealed of God. Obviously not lost according to the 'authority' of God's Word, and one of the 12. Likewise Aser, clearly one of the 12 as demonstrated in Revelation chapter 7. That is to say, if we receive the Word of God as authority over myths and legends.
The indoctrinated retort, 'that's all is well and good, but what about the distinction between the Jews and Israel?' ..the moral of the story being, some things people want lost, even when they cannot be lost. As God (not I) clearly shows, after the restoration of the dispersed from captivity we find the terms 'Jews and Israel,' are synonymous. They are used to identify the exact same people, and this would be biblical confusion if we are to believe these theories. The New Testament writings call the same people Jews and Israel. A distinction is ludicrous. In Ezra after the restoration, the exact same people are called of God "Jews" and "Israel," and the exact same thing in Nehemiah [7]. And so, truly, where is the mystery? These Theologians are missing the point. Judea is a figure of Christ, without which none of them are Jews in God's defining of the term. And Christ being the Lion of the tribe of Judah, is what restores the kingdom and makes men Jews. It's not in their blood line, but in His.
Romans 2:28-29
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."
The fact of the matter is, the New Testament gives no hint of alleged lost tribes of Israel.
And the terms "Hebrew," "Jew," and "Israelite" were and are used synonymously for the same people, as Paul himself so clearly demonstrated in his ministry [8]. We can only say, What distinction? Shall man put asunder what God has joined? Therefore we must conclude that by the preponderance of biblical evidence, there is no continuing distinction made today between Jews and Israel, and that the tribes of Israel were present in Israel when Jesus came to her.
The end of it all? God's Israelites are by Grace, not Race! The unconditional promises made to Israel have been fulfilled in Abraham's Seed! Not seeds as of many, but Seed as one one, Christ (galatians 3:16). Those who are in Christ are the blood-bought Israel of God, and these are those who constitute God's Elect, or Chosen people. Lost, but now found. Bound, but now free. Brought out of captivity in the Son Israel, called out of Egypt. This Son is not a geographical area nor a race, but Christ Jesus.
The 10 lost tribes of Israel < click
A
Abiding
Guest
I find it interesting how many of you don’t understand what Therapon teaches and how some of you misrepresent what he says.
I am in no means an intellectual but the message is very clear to me.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts:
and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sarah herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshiped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians attempting to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
I posted the above verses so we may come to understand and not be disillusioned by false accusations by others on what Therapon teaches.
As we all know it is our faith that saves us and that faith is in Christ Jesus.
But what about those who came before the cross? If they knew not Christ Jesus how can they be saved?
I believe that the answer can be read in the above verses. The one word that is mentioned the most and that word is FAITH.
We read in verse 1 that FAITH is the substance of things hoped for. Did not Israel have FAITH (the substance of things hope for) that they knew one day they would be led out of Egypt? Or that Noah by FAITH (the substance of things hoped for) built the ark? Or by FAITH (the substance of things hope for) Abraham offered up his son Isaac? Or that by FAITH (the substance of things hoped for) the harlot Rahab believed that she would not perish with those who believed not?
This same FAITH as we read throughout the Old Testament in my opinion is the same FAITH we hold today. While we have FAITH in Christ Jesus, they had FAITH in the coming Christ. As scripture says,
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
While we look back through FAITH, they look forward through FAITH and did drink of the same spiritual Rock we drink and that Rock is Christ.
Now Paul refers to Isaiah when he says,
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
And this is the verse he refers to,
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Now I believe that we should witness the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all even the Jews but we don’t know those who are still under the spirit of slumber for those under this slumber are referred to in the following verse in Isaiah,
Isa 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
For those whom this spirit of slumber is given to cannot see the Gospel of Christ for it is sealed unto them. Eyes that cannot see so they go back to the only scriptures they know because of their FAITH and that is the Old Testament and it is through the Old Testament that they have the same FAITH that we have in Christ Jesus.
It has always been about FAITH brothers and sisters.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
I am in no means an intellectual but the message is very clear to me.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Heb 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts:
and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Heb 11:11 Through faith also Sarah herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
Heb 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Heb 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
Heb 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshiped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
Heb 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
Heb 11:23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
Heb 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Heb 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
Heb 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians attempting to do were drowned.
Heb 11:30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
Heb 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
I posted the above verses so we may come to understand and not be disillusioned by false accusations by others on what Therapon teaches.
As we all know it is our faith that saves us and that faith is in Christ Jesus.
But what about those who came before the cross? If they knew not Christ Jesus how can they be saved?
I believe that the answer can be read in the above verses. The one word that is mentioned the most and that word is FAITH.
We read in verse 1 that FAITH is the substance of things hoped for. Did not Israel have FAITH (the substance of things hope for) that they knew one day they would be led out of Egypt? Or that Noah by FAITH (the substance of things hoped for) built the ark? Or by FAITH (the substance of things hope for) Abraham offered up his son Isaac? Or that by FAITH (the substance of things hoped for) the harlot Rahab believed that she would not perish with those who believed not?
This same FAITH as we read throughout the Old Testament in my opinion is the same FAITH we hold today. While we have FAITH in Christ Jesus, they had FAITH in the coming Christ. As scripture says,
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
While we look back through FAITH, they look forward through FAITH and did drink of the same spiritual Rock we drink and that Rock is Christ.
Now Paul refers to Isaiah when he says,
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
And this is the verse he refers to,
Isa 29:10 For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Now I believe that we should witness the Gospel of Jesus Christ to all even the Jews but we don’t know those who are still under the spirit of slumber for those under this slumber are referred to in the following verse in Isaiah,
Isa 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
For those whom this spirit of slumber is given to cannot see the Gospel of Christ for it is sealed unto them. Eyes that cannot see so they go back to the only scriptures they know because of their FAITH and that is the Old Testament and it is through the Old Testament that they have the same FAITH that we have in Christ Jesus.
It has always been about FAITH brothers and sisters.
Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
In Christ, 1Christianwarrior316
2. Just analyzed documents from the former USSR indicates that in the following centuries, a large unidentified body of light-skinned blue-eyed people migrated from South of the Caucuses into Kingdom of Khazaria.
3. During the Islamic expansion of the 8th century, a Moslem army under Abdel Rahman tried to invade Europe through a pass in the Caucasus, but Khazarian armies defeated him. Were it not for the bulwark of Khazaria, Christian Europe could have fallen to Islam from the East.
4. Not wanting religious wars to divide his country, the King of the Khazars ordered three missionaries to appear before his court: a Christian monk, a Jewish priest and a Moslem Imam.
5. After carefully listening to the arguments of each, the King of the Khazars chose Judaism to be the state religion!
6. Later, the people in Khazaria clinging to Judaism emigrated to Europe, where they became known as Ashkenazi Jews.
Faulty Premise #2
Khazarian Jews are not Ancient Israelites, and those who know and are honest about their history do not claim to be.
They are Gentile converts to Talmudic Rabbinic Judaism....700 YEARS AFTER JESUS CHRIST WALKED THE EARTH.
Talmudic Judaism is not Moses and the prophets
Medieval Kingdom of Khazaria, 652-1016
Over a thousand years ago, the far east of Europe was ruled by Jewish kings who presided over numerous tribes, including their own tribe: the Turkic Khazars. After their conversion, the Khazar people used Jewish personal names, spoke and wrote in Hebrew, were circumcised, had synagogues and rabbis, studied the Torah and Talmud, and observed Hanukkah, Pesach, and the Sabbath. The Khazars were an advanced civilization with one of the most tolerant societies of the medieval period. It hosted merchants from all over Asia and Europe. On these pages it is hoped that you may learn more about this fascinating culture.
Khazaria.com - History of Jewish Khazars, Khazar Turk, Khazarian Jews < click