What is the Messianic Kingdom?

[Katy-follower]

Which brings to mind this little ditty ...

[video=youtube;sChJUaU5W9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sChJUaU5W9I&list=HL1361913886&feature=mh_l olz[/video]

That's my favorite video also. I saw it in church last year

 

[Pilgrimer]

You missed my whole point.

IF all of the covenant of abraham, As ZONE DEMANDS, speaks of salvation and is salvic in nature. Then ALL Isreal is saved, no matter if they recieve Christ or not.

IF however, it was just a land covenant, and promises of blessings HERE ON EARTH to them, then it is not salvic in nature, and zones defense and arguments fall on their face.

But that's just the point. The Old Covenant contained earthly blessings that were not in and of themselves salvic but were types and shadows and figures of the New Covenant and it's spiritual blessings which are salvic. The Law symbolized how salvation would be made, but could not provide it.

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yep. . .because the Roman kingdom was also a type of Satan's kingdom.

The literal prophecy of the fall of Rome was fulfilled.

It's symbolic fulfillment is in Christ's kingdom overthrowing Satan's kingdom.

No problem exists with the time frame in this prophecy.

wow. talk about private interpretation.

So the first 4 kingdoms were literally fulfilled. Exactly as Daniel was told they would be down to how they did it.. Yet the final kingdom is just a symbol?

God does prophesy to prove he is God. he does not give us symbols which we may be able to interpret many different ways, He gives us prophesy which can be proven to be fulfilled literally. Otherwise he is no more of a God than nostradomous or other secular prophets.. But hey if this is the type of God you want to worship. so be it.

That's a nice revision and minimization of the NT record of Israel's unbelief.

No. It had nothing to do with the NT record of anything, it has to do with what God commanded them to do when they were formed. They were to be a witness to the world of Gods goodness and love..

Your chronology is a little confused.

Where in the gospels did Jesus tell the Jewish nation they were to give the gospel to the Gentiles?

The Mosaic laws of defilement separated the Jews from the Gentiles.

Those defilement laws were not set aside (Heb 7:18-19) until Jesus' Jewish enemies had him killed by the Romans.

God's judgment on Israel's unbelief was not because it kept them from giving the gospel to the Gentiles.

God judgment on unbelieving Israel was about rejecting his Messiah,

which is the reason why they are still under God's judgment of blindness today.

Why don;t you read what I said, and stop assuming you know. If you have a question feel free to ask. But when you assume things we can not converse..You totally got the context of what I was talking about wrong!

Or maybe your trying to symbolise what I said like you are Gods words??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The final kingdom in Da 2 is God's kingdom of 2:44.

yet again you totally misrepresent what I said.. I was talking about the gentile kingdoms.. you know. they iron and clay??

The fourth kingdom, which the fifth kingdom of God destroys, is the Roman kingdom, which is also a type of Satan's kingdom, which is crushed by the kingdom of God.

1st off. get off this type stuff. You sound alot like scofield and darby which is scary.

The forth kingdom (rome) or kingdom of Iron, was in power in Christ's day, and it was this kingdom which destroyed the city of jerusalem and the temple.

The final of that kingdom was not yet in power yet.. Thus it was yet to come.

while your right, this kingdom is the one destroyed by Christ. and his kingdom.. You have failed to prove it has appeared yet.

Oh wait, You can;t so you symbolize it (rolls eyes)

The prophecy was fullfilled both literally and typically.

God did not tell us to typify its interpretation. Daniel made it clear.

[SUP]43 [/SUP]As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. [SUP]44 [/SUP]And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. [SUP]45 [/SUP]Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

Kings are not to be symbolized. they are literal kings. Daniel told him, THESE THINGS WILL COME TO PASS.. Nothing but a literal interpretation will suffice.

We do not symbolize prophesy just because our belief does not fit the literal interpretation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

those requirements must have been met because supposedly they are back in the Land.
what requirements did they meet?

they are back in the land?

they are living in peace?

they have no enemies?

And the land is completely theres and not mixed with gentiles?

wow, when did this happen?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what happens in the 1,000 years if its got no Temple?

what Throne will Jesus be on, and where will it be?

What throne? your joking right? on davids throne,

Temple? I don't know what it will be called. but they will NOT be sacrificing animals in it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The messianic kingdom is the fifth kingdom of Da 2:44, which endures forever.

Actually it is the 6th.. there are two roman kingdoms. Iron (4) and Iron/clay (5)

It was set up during the time of the fourth king, the Roman empire which conquered the Greek empire (2:39; 8:31), at Christ's first coming.

How can this be? rome was in power LONG after Christ left.. and even after they destroyed the city and temple as prophesied in Dan 9..

Your a little mixed up there.

The kingdom Christ set up during the Roman empire endures forever.

You got it wrong. the kingdom Christ will set up will destroy the reformed roman empire.. and will slaughter so many people as scripture said the birds will feed on flesh for ALONG time..

Again, your timeline is off.

He does not set his kingdom up DURING, he literally DESTROYS the kingdom.

There is not another future earthly Messianic kingdom to come,

nor is one found in apostolic teaching.

Thanks for your opinion. But John tells us quite plainly there will be a final kingdom. just like all the OT prophets told us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That was fulfilled in Josh 21:43-45:

"So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to their forefathers, and they took possession (not full habitation) of it and settled there. The LORD gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their forefathers. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the LORD handed all their enemies over to them. Not one of the LORD'S good promises to the house of Israel failed; every one was fulfilled."

and you want me to listen to you?

1. the promise given david was made AFTER the passage you posted. The passage you posted was fulfilled before david was even born. So how can this passage prove the davidic covenant was fulfilled?


2. God said his promise was eternal in nature. since when does an eternal promise stop? God gave you eternal life (if your saved) does that mean God fulfilled his promise already and no longer has to keep his promise to you?

If your not going to properly respond to what I said. don;t expect any response Your not helping your case one iota.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i for one believe God forgives anyone who is repentant and acknowledges Jesus as King and Lord and Messiah, and obeys the Gospel.

and hopefully understands that also means becoming part of His Body, His Church.

jew or gentile. jews repent and become christians today. my best friend is proof.

no other NAME.

no other PROMISE.

Yep, God is a liar.

when he says forever, he does not mean it..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You'll have to ask the ones who believe it.

I don't believe it, so you're asking the wrong person.

I don;t believe it either.. Which is why I asked where it came from

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey, this thread is so good and I missed it all. Don't feel bad...Glad I stayed out, for Elin, Abiding, Pilgrimer, and you Zone did a great job in articulating the truth...A lot better then I could ever do, however EG has a hard shell. Now I know none of my threads took off, lol. That's ok, it's not about me..

EG, I commend you for sticking in thus far and taking the bunches. I love you bro. Peace

lol.. where else would I go? I have seen nothing to change my mind. (although I did get angry and had to leave for a night)

I have heard most of these arguments before. studied them hard.. and stil see way to many questions, and not enough answers. That to me is a major problem.. it should be for all of us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well, then. . .

"Houston, we've got a problem."

Because God promised the land to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, personally (Ge 17:8, 26:3, 35:12), but none of them ever possessed a foot of ground there (Ac 7:5), so God did not keep his promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Wow.. I take it you do not study much? you should try studying more.


[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then He said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”
[SUP]9 [/SUP]So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. [SUP]18 [/SUP]On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”



God answered your question. But you should have known this.

If you can;t understand this, how can we think you understand anything about this?

 

[Elin]

Wow.. I take it you do not study much? you should try studying more.

Are you sure about that?

"God sent Abraham to this land where you are now living.
He gave him no inheritance (actual possession) there, not even a foot of ground."

God promised Canaan to the partriarchs, but none of them ever actually possessed it.

So sayeth Stephen (Ac 7:3-5).

Where in Scripture do you find the patriarchs living in the land?

Their descendants in the time of Joshua possessed it, but the patriarchs, to whom it was promised personally, never actually possessed even a foot of ground there.

 

[Elin]

Ive needed to study this more for quite awhile
chapter 17 seems the land is brought into a conditional
covenant with circumcision. Dont bother answering
i just need to do more homework.

I will open a thread on it.

 

[Abiding]

yet again you totally misrepresent what I said.. I was talking about the gentile kingdoms.. you know. they iron and clay??



1st off. get off this type stuff. You sound alot like scofield and darby which is scary.

The forth kingdom (rome) or kingdom of Iron, was in power in Christ's day, and it was this kingdom which destroyed the city of jerusalem and the temple.

The final of that kingdom was not yet in power yet.. Thus it was yet to come.

while your right, this kingdom is the one destroyed by Christ. and his kingdom.. You have failed to prove it has appeared yet.

Oh wait, You can;t so you symbolize it (rolls eyes)



God did not tell us to typify its interpretation. Daniel made it clear.

[SUP]43 [/SUP]As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. [SUP]44 [/SUP]And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. [SUP]45 [/SUP]Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

Kings are not to be symbolized. they are literal kings. Daniel told him, THESE THINGS WILL COME TO PASS.. Nothing but a literal interpretation will suffice.

We do not symbolize prophesy just because our belief does not fit the literal interpretation.

1Peter 1: 10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search and inquiry, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Eze 17:2 Son of man, put forth a riddle, and speak a parable unto the house of Israel;

 

[Abiding]

The blessed and only Sovereign, the KING of kings and LORD of lords. (1Tim 6:15)

 

[Elin]

Really! I can only conclude that people who believe a mortal man can rise up and rebel in the presence of Christ in all his glory simply have no idea just how glorious Jesus Christ really is. Jeesh, the one man on earth who knew Jesus best, who had laid his head on Jesus' breast, ate with him, slept alongside him, heard him teach and preach and saw his miracles first hand, saw him resurrected, but he got one look at the Glorified Christ and he collapses in a dead faint at his feet. And that's Jesus' friend!

I think when Jesus returns to this old sin-weary world, in all his glory, the very brightness of his presence will be a burning, consuming fire before which the elements will melt and the cosmos will be dissolved.

Puny mortal bits of clay rise up in the presence of the Glorified One??? Why, even the powers of hell tremble just at his name.

So I agree zone ... ain't gonna happen!

Which brings to mind this little ditty ...

[video=youtube;sChJUaU5W9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sChJUaU5W9I&list=HL1361913886&feature=mh_l olz[/video]

In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Oldie, but goodie.

 

[Elin]

Oh my, titanic shift! As many times as I've read that verse I never saw that ...

View attachment 41246


In Christ,
Pilgrimer

Love the shoes!

 

[Elin]

wow. talk about private interpretation.

So the first 4 kingdoms were literally fulfilled.

Yet the final kingdom is just a symbol.

The Roman empire is the fourth kingdom.

That kingdom is also a type of Satan's kingdom.

The prophecy of the fourth kingdom Rome has been fulfilled.

The fifth kingdom is the kingdom of the Messiah, is not a symbol and will be built on the ruins of the sinful empires of man, and it will fill the world (Da 2:35).

It is forever (Da 2:44), set up during the Roman empire, and allows for no other Messianic kingdom.

 

[zone]

Yep, God is a liar.

when he says forever, he does not mean it..

are you alright?