Imputed Righteousness of Christ

[homwardbound]

Ro 5:18-19 articulates it well.

v. 18 - Just as the result of one trespass (sin in the garden) was condemnation for all men (Adam's guilt imputed to all men),
so also the result of one act of righteousness (Jesus' death) was justification that brings life for all men (forgiveness of sin imputed to all who believe in Jesus).

v. 19 - Just as through the disobedience of the one man (Adam), the many were made sinners (Adam's guilt imputed to all men),
so also through the obedience of the one man (Jesus), the many will be made righteous (Jesus' righteousness imputed to all who believe in him).

impute = to charge with (guilt of Adam), or credit with (righteousness of Christ)

for Christ is the end of Law for righteousness unto those that believe

 

[homwardbound]

The doctrine was an INVENTION of Martin Luther.

It is constructed by selectively quote mining Scripture whilst ignoring the general theme of Scripture.

This doctrine of the "Imputed Righteousness of Christ" serves as a cloak for unrighteousness.

Here is a quote from Martin Luther...



Yet the problem is where does the Bible say that Jesus took on the believers guilt? Where does the Bible say that a believer is "adorned" with the "innocence and purity" of Jesus? Where does the Bible state that the believer is "granted the righteousness of Jesus" ?

The Bible teaches no such thing. The "Blessed Exchange" is a MYTH.

The Bible teaches that FAITH IS IMPUTED AS RIGHTEOUSNESS. "Faith being imputed as righteousness" is VERY DIFFERENT than the "obedience of Jesus being credited to your account."

Here is how R C Sproul teaches this dangerous doctrine...

[video=youtube;wHqCNEh2y1Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHqCNEh2y1Q[/video]

Yet the Bible says this...

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Are these people trying to deceive you into believing that "righteousness" HAS NOTHING to do with what YOU DO?

The Bible also says this...

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.



Ariel, in another post you write this...



Do any of those scriptures you referenced teach that the "Righteousness of Christ" is imputed to a believers account? I don't see it.

It is true that the blood is absolutely necessary in purging the conscience of sin in order that believer may approach God in a new and living way seeking mercy and reconciliation. Without the blood there would be no remission of sin.

Yet to twist that into a teaching where the obedience of Jesus is reckoned to the believers account is pure fiction.

Carefully read Romans Chapter 4 and you'll clearly see that it is FAITH which God imputes as righteousness. A faith that has an ASSOCIATED WALK (Rom 11-13). A Faith that is obedient (Heb 11:8). A faith that works by love and fulfills the righteousness of the law (Gal 5:6, Gal 5:14, Rom 8:4) whereby the law is established in the heart (Rom 3:31). In other words God LOOKS AT THE HEART and if an individual LOVES GOD and LOVES THEIR NEIGHBOUR then God reckons that as righteousness APART from the works of the law.

The entire Bible speaks of loving God and loving our neighbour. Nowhere does the Bible teach that "righteousness" or "vice" are transferrable properties. It doesn't even make sense.

This Substitution Theology has no basis in truth whatsoever. Substitution Theology has reduced the Gospel to a judicial abstraction whereby God PRETENDS that a person is righteousness when they are still filthy. It is a doctrine which throws reason out the window.

Look at this passage...

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

How does that passage fit in with "righteousness" being some abstract legal transaction? It doesn't.

Righteousness is in what YOU DO FROM YOUR HEART.

Look at this passage...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Does that fit in with a forensic accreditation of righteousness while one is still filthy?

Paul goes on to say...

Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

OUR MANIFEST CONDUCT is related to whether we enter into everlasting life or not. This forensic exchange of Penal Substitution Theology is a MYTH, it is FICTION, it is an idea concocted in the MINDS OF MEN.

Look at this scripture...

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Righteousness is MANIFESTED in CONDUCT. God does not look at you and see Jesus. God looks at you and SEES YOU!

If you are filthy and defiled God sees you as filthy and defiled. If you are pure and holy God sees you as pure and holy. Sinners are sinners and saints are saints.

God does not want anyone to perish but all to come to repentance. God wants all people to be broken on the rock of Christ, to forsake their sin, and to yield to the leading of God. God wants us all to ABIDE IN CHRIST whereby we are YIELDED TO HIS INSTRUCTION. When we YIELD TO GOD from the heart the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts and we become conduits of the light of God. Not of ourselves, but rather, OF GOD. God wants us to be VESSELS of His Spirit.



There is not a single statement in the entire Bible which states that the literal righteousness of Jesus Christ is CREDITED to the believers account. Did Jesus teach anything close to that anywhere? Think about that for a minute. Jesus DID NOT TEACH IT. Nor did Paul, Peter, John or James. Paul's writings are "twisted" to support it.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Why do people believe this false doctrine then? They believe it because it is what they have been taught and they have NEVER seriously questioned it.

One has to ask why was it never taught before Martin Luther elaborated on it?

and Skinski this is how I do it and have done it, from the imputed righteousness of christ Jesus which is the mystery that flesh will never get or Love as God loves as shown what God's love is 1 Cor 13 and against such is no law the flesh has died I reckon it so as Romans 6:11 states after the explanation of the operation of God in romans 6:1-11 that it is by Faith that one recieves God's righteousness and responds to this and does what God says just as Jesus did we listen to the Spirit of God and do as said by God through the Spirit of truth of God
Others continue by works to get Faith and recieve as in the Old testament first chosen tried and never could do the only ones that could was by and through Faith in God not law as it seems you are proposing
Hebrews 11 shows that it is by faith being a great cloud of witnesses and works of God followed ther belief. therefore works are a by-product of Faith true faith in God produces God works through you the believer that is what all the new Testament scripture is talking about when you seem to use it as a law as being of self that we are to do it
So please correct me if I am wrong about waht I am saying that you are saying? For I know for me that Not I have crucified my flesh but my belief in the operation of God has, God getting all the credit all glory to God
Now to those that have not done this (asking God to crucify thier flesh and raise them fom the dead) when they do come to belief that God is the one that can do this they will be freed from sins and if they are trying to understand wanting to know God then they will for God is the one that gives the increase so you probably are planting or watering and no matter the intention I know God will give the increase and bring his Believing Children home to the whole truth and they shall be set free in him rfecieving that it is Christ te righteous one that freed us to do what is right trusting Father to do in us what we could never do in and of ourselves which is 1Cor 13 and is the fullfillment of the Law whenh one recieves this they are born again and do as such which the flesh itself can never do only the born again can actually do what 1 Cor 13 says is what true love is
Love you as Christ Loved and loves me complete homwardbound

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

Your quoting Luther????????????? Do you consider him a sound bible teacher??? Wow, we have covered the truth about Imputation, and its a doctrine of demons, but if you adhere to the teachings of this man, then I guess your mind is made up!

Martin Luther the Heretic!

The Following are only a very brief example of Luther's outrageous remarks. Research it yourself and find hundreds more
he was also complaisant in the murder & torture of the Anabaptists in 1520's Germany



Luther teaches: “Christ committed adultery first of all with the women at the well about whom St. John tell’s us. Was not everybody about Him saying: ‘Whatever has He been doing with her?’ Secondly, with Mary Magdalen, and thirdly with the women taken in adultery whom He dismissed so lightly. Thus even, Christ who was so righteous, must have been guilty of fornication before He died. (Sited from: Trish Reden Weimar Edition Vol2, pg107)

"Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides... No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day." (Sited from Letter #99 Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 404)

"We should throw out the Epistle of James from this school (Wittenberg) for it doesn't amount to much. It contains not one syllable about Christ. Nor does it mention Christ expect at the beginning. I maintain that some Jew wrote it who probably heard about Christian people but never encountered any!"
(Sited from: LW-54 424-425)

"the epistle of St. James is an epistle full of straw, because it contains nothing evangelical" (Sited from: 'Preface to the New Testament,' ed. Dillenberger, p. 19. - Cf. Also Jean Janssen, L’Allemagne et la Reforme. (Trans. E. Paris, Plon, 1887-1911). Vol II, Pg. 218.)

Do not ask anything of your conscience; and if it speaks, do not listen to it; if it insists, stifle it, amuse yourself; if necessary, commit some good big sin, in order to drive it away. Conscience is the voice of Satan, and it is necessary always to do just the contrary of what Satan wishes." (Sited from: J. Dollinger, La Reforme et les resultants qu’elle a produits. (Trans. E. Perrot, Paris, Gaume, 1848-49), Vol III, pg. 248)

"If Moses attempt to intimidate you with his stupid Ten Commandments, tell him right out chase yourself to the Jews!" (Lecture at Wittenberg)





If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We, however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that through God’s glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner." (Luther, Letter to Melanchthon, 1521.)

Where does the Bible teach such Heresy? Jesus said "whoever Commits sin is a Slave of sin" and Paul taught "you are a Slave to whom YOU obey!" (Jn. 8:34 & Rom. 6:16) What this means is that Sinning leads to Death, Not the Kingdom of God! "Go and Sin no More" was Jesus declaration to the woman caught in Adultery in Jn. 8:11, whereas, we find the Apostle Paul in Romans 6:1-2 saying, "what shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?" Don't be Deceived! (1 Jn. 4:1) According to Scripture, "you Reap what you Sow". (Gal. 6:7-8) Jesus said,"whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" and WARNED "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell." (Matt. 5:27-29). Likewise, it is Written that "whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." (1 Jn. 3:15) Luther was WRONG and IF you follow him it will Cost you your soul! "He who Sins if of the Devil", Not God! (1 Jn. 3:7-10) Luther taught a FALSE Grace message! (Tit. 2:11-12 & Jude 3-4) Eternal Security is a Myth! (Matt. 10:22 & Heb. 3:14) This man was a Heretic, Not a Saint. Wake up before your time is up! courtesy standingthegap.org

Well Tommy i really don't care for anyone elses teaching icluding any of my own I only care to rightly divide the word of truthand listen to the hidden amn of myheart and I hear that God just loves me, and in rsponse to that I do(not I) but God through me does what is right, perfect, good and correct, by the holy Ghost implanted in me as was implanted in Christ whom Christ semt to be in allbelievers to teach the Love of God to you the believer and me and you over there
[h=3]Hebrews 8:10-12[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: (it is today after those days) I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; (this is the love of God as in 1 cor 13) and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. [SUP]11 [/SUP]None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” Now this is by no means is meant in any way for any one that believes to take advantage of, This is meant for APPRECIATION!!!!!! AND THUS SEEK FROM GOD BY TRUST HOW TO WALK CIRCUMSPECTLY PERIOD BY THE TEACHING OF gODTHROUGH THE HOLY GHOST IMPLANTED IN YOU ON THE VERY FIRST DAY OF BELIEF

[h=3]Ephesians 1:13[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Love form God's vantage point and then we do what is right, not of ourselves yet by God through what he has done for us. Can't recieve without belief, and doubting Thomas had to see to believe and how much more will those recieve that believe. I would rather be a blind man that can see than a seeing man that is blind

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

UMM,I may be missing something but if there isn't a pastor alive today teaching the truth,what about their own pastor? (After reading that no wonder they have the party line down so well,but what about the rest of the story?)

Go to growingingrace.org and or realanswers.net see for yourself if they are preaching truth oh wait a minute another GREASY GRACE sight ugh! RIGHT? all one can do is check it out and ask God truth before golng over there
thank you

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

well.....

Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

And this woulkd be by belief we can be set free from the slave woman to the free woman because of what christ hasdone for us for we can't ever do this of self ever that scripture just came clear Zone to me thanks

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

the button

Now push and flush out the errors

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

lol love you too

did you notice an absence of response?

I do wonder what they have faith in since they spend so much time telling lies about what they think others have faith in.

as for the button Abiding, it seems to be broken, but I was reading something from Luther yesterday, but its more about kill than banning folks.......




from his tares and wheat sermon


I don't know I still pray that God will open their eyes to the deception of the StandinginGap website and actually read the Bible for themselves instead of believing his twisted version of it and of history and of pastor past and present.

I found in reading what all write in thier opinion whether they are deceptors or not truth of some sorthas to be displayed. So in everything written and or said I go gold panning sifting all through my heart my new one the inner man and my Father seperates truth from error setting free and keeoping me free in him and his imputed righteusness that he gave me freely as well as you and you and you. For all things are permissable yet not all things are beneficial, so it is up to each of us to hear the discerment of truth in our hearts from God the Father through the Holy ghost, being wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove and prayingfor each other to understasnd and see truth for what truth is and be free for I quarantee if you know that it is truth that sets anyone of us free and if any of us are still in bondage and are not growing forsaking sin as we grow then thier could be error in our truth that is keeping anyone of us from growing in grace, and one would possibly have to rethink thier truth. Just food for thought for each ones growth here

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

Arial... Martin Luther is teaching a "gradual crucifixion of the flesh" ie. sinning less and less.

I don't deny that Reformed Theology preaches a form of righteousness, they most certainly do. The error is that preach that one is "cloaked" in the righteousness of Jesus whilst one is still ACTUALLY unrighteous and that "sanctification" is a process of "sinning less and less." Thus a porn addict can get saved and justified by the cloak of the Imputed Righteousness of Christ and then OVER TIME he eventually conquers his porn addiction. Thus a convert remains double-minded serving two masters, in bondage to sin, waiting for the old man to be crucified eventually in the future. It is ERROR.

There is no such thing as a forensic cloak of righteousness for righteousness is in what YOU DO FROM THE HEART. Abraham was credited as righteous because he yielded to God from the heart. It is the same with Christian's, God imputes a believer righteous by faith because faith is simply trusting and yielding to God from the heart. There is no disobedience.

Martin Luther doctrine cloaks ongoing disobedience which is why there exists the teaching of the Carnal Christian. John MacArthur doesn't like the term "Carnal Christian" and thus will instead refer to the "Disobedient Christian." In the minds of these preachers the carnal and disobedient Christian can be saved and justified but are merely falling short of their identity in Christ. It is a very messy theology of error which is full of contradictions.

One moment they will preach you have to obey God and then later they will contradict themselves and teach that one can be secure in salvation while disobedient but just receive chastisement. They will teach that if one completely falls away then they were probably never saved to begin with and yet in the next breath teach that one can hold assurance of salvation if one just trusts in Jesus. What if the one who was "trusting in Jesus" goes reprobate the next week? Was he never saved to begin with now? The whole system is contradictory nonsense.

Skinski I was a porn addict on the internet looking at pitures and videos, sometimes a long time in between and sometimes not I grew in grace I trusted God for this to go I never knew when or how but it did, and it was not by me that this ceased. I was continuously at the throne of grace, begging pleading trying to believe asking for forgiveness over and over that finally I thlought God must be taking Pepto-Bismal on me, Some how I knew that God had forgiven me, and was under the worldly trap that I needed more forgiveness every time I sinned never finalizing that I was forgiven complete by God through Christ back at the cross before I was ever born here on earth. Then after learning that I am forgiven and approaching the throne of grace was not for any further forgiveness to be executed it was for me to learn waht I needed above anything else was life, I was dead even in christ I finally finalized I was forgiven by Christ but that never brought life for I was still striving to stop sin.
Then The Holy Ghost revealed to me that I need life in Christ that I am not saved by the death I am saved by the life and them that is what I asked for from God and I recieved and anything you ask for in my name (CHrist) it shall be done And even in Romans 5:10 it stets that since we all have been reconciled to Christ (forgiven) how much more shall we be saved by his life, ah! imputed righteousness by and through the Holy Ghost

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

It seems so many believers want to add, in some way, shape or form, there own work to the free gift of righteousness by faith. Dying to self is not something that we do It isn't?????

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Denying yourself, picking up your cross (an instrument of death) and following Jesus is not something you do? It is just a mindset?

...but a mindset that we are to have. Because i reckon myself dead to the law and all of its boundaries, I can live for God out of the abundance of His grace, which is above the law. So many of us need to cease from our own efforts to live a life that is pleasing to God

Cease from your own efforts?

Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Strive - G75 - agōnizomai
From G73; to struggle, literally (to compete for a prize), figuratively (to contend with an adversary), or generally (to endeavor to accomplish something): - fight, labor fervently, strive.


Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Work Out - G2716 - katergazomai
From G2596 and G2038; to work fully, that is, accomplish; by implication to finish, fashion: - cause, do (deed), perform, work (out).

and simply accept and rest in the truth that we are right now and forever, the righteousness of God because we are in Christ Jesus. We rest from works done apart from God but that does not mean DO NOTHING. Faith IS a work we are not to cease from! Love is a labour.

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Whoever you are listening to for teaching you need to flee from them for your life.

yes and this is only accomplished by and through Faith in Christ Jesusa and his finished work is the beginning of the mystery the hope of Glory Christ Jesus the righteous one and is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe and those that believe love God's type 1 cor13 and against such is no law

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

Dying to self is indeed something we do.

The free gift is eternal life in Jesus Christ which one enters into through repentance and faith whereby one strives to enter in at the strait gate and narrow way and henceforth work out their salvation in fear and trembling. Many do not see it that way but rather believe that one enters into Jesus Christ by simply "accepting Him into their heart" without actually having been broken whereby the iniquity within is purged. Thus they come into a "false notion" of being saved whilst in reality they are still in bondage to sin and under condemnation.

Skinski i just want to point outI highlighted it in red, have you not read the verse after that verse it states:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; [SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
So brother by and through trust God will cause you through your free will to do accordingly what is right, but if I, you or anyone strives as you posted it to be will onlycause more sin and strife been there and done that brother it is mopstimportant to read all in context and listen to the Holy Ghost leading of truth that sets one free to be a true lover God's type 1 Cor 13

 

[homwardbound]

In the full idea of things. If one could do this to perfection. they would become sinless. Unfortunately. mankind does not do this, even after we are saved, which is why we are still in need of grace and will be in need of grace until the day of our death.

My comments in red.

I think this is an interesting post because it really does appear you are thinking about these issues.

i'm some what confused because I believe imputed righteousness of Christ is Biblical but not in the context of how you explain it.

To reiterate very briefly the Bible says this...

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Let's really THINK here and use our REASONING ABILITY.

Romans 4 verse 5 clearly states that "faith is counted for righteousness." In other words God sees that an individual has faith and God counts that faith as righteousness. Read the passage again, it does not say a single thing about the righteousness of another being credited to the believer does it? Am I lying? Is not what I am saying true? Read the verse and THINK about what it ACTUALLY SAYS not what people imply it says.

Let's talk about the righteousness of Jesus for a moment. Why was Jesus righteous? Was it not because He did the right thing? I would assert that Jesus LOVED PERFECTLY and thus ALWAYS did the right thing and due to this it can be said that Jesus was righteous. Now let's THINK again. Can the conduct of Jesus be credited to someone else? Is it possible that the constitution of an individual by which they manifest right conduct be credited to another?

So when you say "God righteousness/Christ's righteousness" is given to you what does that mean? Does not it mean that the virtue of one is given to another? Does the transfer of virtue even make sense? PLEASE THINK IT THROUGH.

Again Rom 4:5 specifically states that "his faith is counted for righteousness." Paul is clearly stating that there is a kind of faith that God counts as righteousness. Paul is not speaking of a transfer. Read it again please. What does it actually say? THINK.

Now look at Romans 4 verse 3. What does it say? It says, "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." So God counted Abraham's BELIEF as righteousness too.

Believed - G4100 - pisteuō
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

Faith - G4102 - pistis
From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Now let's turn to Hebrews 11 and read what it says...

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Notice that faith was the DYNAMIC by which Abraham obeyed God and went out. Abraham was persuaded that what God said was true and Abraham entrusted his well being to God and thus Abraham submitted Himself to the will of God.

Here is what Hebrews says about Noah...

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Notice again that faith was the DYNAMIC that moved Noah TO DO what God told him to do and due to this he became a heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Now look at this passage...

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Paul speaks of LIVING BY THE FAITH of Jesus and that by doing so he does not frustrate the grace of God because he knows that righteousness does not come by the law. Righteousness comes by faith.

Do any of these passages harmonise with the virtue of Jesus being credited to the believer? I don't see it at all.

Here is another passage about faith and righteousness.

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Righteousness by faith and faith works by love. Do you see a transfer of the righteousness of Jesus to the believers account there? I sure don't. I see Paul teaching that righteousness is by faith and that faith works by love.

Therefore when John writes this...

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1Jn 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Notice that John connects "loving one another" with "doing righteousness." If faith works by love and it involves entrusting ourselves completely to God what will be the result?

1Jn_4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Now if a sinner forsakes their sin and is reconciled to God through repentance and faith and is cleansed of all unrighteousness (the conscience purged) surely they will be walking by a faith that works by love. Yet the Bible teaches the "perfecting of the saints" which means they "are not perfect yet." It means they need to grow. Yet the HEART IS PURE (Act 15:9) they just don't know much. God does not reckon them righteous by how much they know but rather COUNTS THEIR FAITH AS RIGHTEOUSNESS APART FROM THEIR WORKS.

Read what I wrote ten times and THINK about it. Am I lying? Am I contradicting the Bible?

will you bear with me and I will explain how I read Martin Luther's sermon about it.

I believe he teaches that God's righteousness/ Christ's righteousness is given to us, imputed to us in order that we might grow and build out own proper righteousness. The problem is there is not a single passage in the entire Bible which states that the righteousness of Jesus is credited to the believer. Jesus didn't teach it nor did anyone else.

I believe many people are in error if they think that Christ's imputed righteousness is the only type of righteousness they need. They are in error if they believe the virtue of someone else can be transferred to another.

I know you don't believe in original sin or total depravity but I believe you misunderstand those terms as well. I will admit you may have meet some who describe it as you describe it but its not what I've been taught or believe. I believe Adam's original sin does affect the world. causes people to die and that total depravity is just a term that says if you do not have God in your life you are unable to do anything.

Adam's sin did this...

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

There is nothing in the Bible about Adam's sin corrupting the constitution of his descendents. Physical death is a result of being denied access to the Tree of Life. Adam was made mortal and not immortal.

you believe that no one is ever with out God or His light but i'll have to revisit that thought later because it has more implications than you may realize. Not necessarily, the Bible does warn about God giving people over to a reprobate mind.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

I think if that happens you have no hope.

No human being comes into the world without the light of God. All human beings are drawn by God but the light can be suppressed and God won't be mocked. The Bible does say he gives people over to a reprobate mind, and there is the parable of the talents where the unprofitable servant has his talents removed.

Mat 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Christ's imputed righteousness is set against Adam's sin The second Adam is definitely set against the first Adam but a transfer of righteousness has nothing to do with it.

Our proper righteousness is set against our own sin.

that is the message Luther teaches. Luther is in error. He may have rejected some of the ritualistic sacraments but he simply invented a new theology based upon the writings of Augustine.

I know you do not believe in original sin and I would like to believe that if children are left to their own devices they will do what God wants them to do, but its not true Original sin teaches that the decendents of Adam are imputed with the guilt of Adam as well as having their constitution ruined thus necessitating actual sin. Basically man is taught as being disabled from being able to exercise the virtuous choice. Thus actual sin is the symptom of a disease as opposed to a choice rooted in the exercise of the will.

you see children are selfish. they don't need to be taught how to fight with another child. but they do need to be taught to share. Of course children need to be taught. They are born blank slates subject to the natural passions. They have also been imbued with the light of conscience which only becomes apparent when the ability to reason has developed. Sin is always rooted in the free exercise of the will. I would say that the selfishness exhibited by a 3 year old is not "sin unto death" because the child has no true conception that it is wrong. The child is simply walking according to natural passions and has not yet gained the capacity to exercise moral choices. So while it may appear sinful it really isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying a child is righteous either. I am simply saying they are neutral up until they can reason and thus exercise their will and make a choice.

that is why the Law is a tutor for us until we come to the knowledge of Christ. we are outwardly discipline until the wisdom of God grows in our heart. it is not there naturally. I agree although I would say that there is the light of conscience as well as the instruction of law. As far as the flesh is concerned, it is simply base passions like an animal. God is calling all people to live above their base passions and submit to Him. Sinners are brute beasts.

God does place in us a sense of right and wrong, just and unjust but even as children we try to find ways to increase our advantage, ways to get more than we are given.

the world teaches this "look out for number one" "climb the ladder" "buy this new car" etc.

I see a world lost and see people trying to follow the letter of the law without knowing the heart and Spirit and the need. not because they are doing what is right but because they are afraid of being punished for doing what is wrong. I agree. This is why righteousness is not by the law. One can yield to the law for many different reasons that have nothing to do with love. True righteousness is of the heart and is thus by a faith that works by love. Love fulfills the law.

i've got to tuck the kids in, but know this I'm trying my best to show you your misconceptions about Original sin, imputed righteousness and some of the other doctrines you protest so loudly against. Thankyou for your comments.

God help me because I'm not a theologian, just a stay at home mom who likes reading the BIble and listening to sermons. I am not a theologian either. In fact I do not even have a university education. I have always worked with my hands. I am a simple peasant who loves God and the words He has given us. I also love to dig into things to find answers.

Then why does the word say that he took on all the sin of the world and why did John the babtist say behold the lamb of god THAT TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD John 1:29 and why does it say that through his death that he took away the first (covenant)to establish the second (covenant)
Hebrews 10 very clear on the new covenant and hebrewws 9:15-17 very clear on when thius new covenant took effect and since it has hebrews 10:17 is very clear how God today is dealing with those that believe, today on the basis of a new nature that he seled us with the day we first believed Eph. 1:13
So now through this miraculous salvation we are astounded in thankfulness for such an abundant grace and not using it for an occassion to the flesh as I do know somne that do and those that do do not know him. This mystery of truth being all God was never meant to be taken advantage of
Loveyou Skinski

 

[RedTent]

WOW!! What a lot of words!

I think that it is true that salvation, grace, works, etc. are separate concepts that we can look at separately, but I think that they are also dependent on each other. God is Holy, God alone can save us for eternity.

However we can come between grace and salvation with sin.

There should be balance, our thoughts on this should never go to extremes. The ancient sages often went to extremes about works, and with their eyes focused on the works they didn't see the spirit. We must be careful not to do the same thing with spirit. We must not get so focused on the blessed salvation we are offered apart from works that we do not see the part that works play. It is like a contract with God, we have responsibilities in that contract.

 

[RedTent]

WAAAY back in this post (sorry I have been away) someone asked me what I meant by righteousness through Christ. It was a sort of short hand for we must listen to the Holy Spirit, to Christ and do our works through that.

A man who came to my house to repair something and stayed for coffee explained it well. He had been a sinner, and was enjoying his sin. Then he met Christ one Sunday. It was instant love. He gave himself and everything he thought and did to Christ from that moment on. It changed his marriage, took his addictions, handled his money.

 

[zone]

Skinski i just want to point outI highlighted it in red, have you not read the verse after that verse it states:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; [SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
So brother by and through trust God will cause you through your free will to do accordingly what is right, but if I, you or anyone strives as you posted it to be will onlycause more sin and strife been there and done that brother it is mopstimportant to read all in context and listen to the Holy Ghost leading of truth that sets one free to be a true lover God's type 1 Cor 13

 

[Skinski7]

Skinski I was a porn addict on the internet looking at pitures and videos, sometimes a long time in between and sometimes not I grew in grace I trusted God for this to go I never knew when or how but it did, and it was not by me that this ceased. I was continuously at the throne of grace, begging pleading trying to believe asking for forgiveness over and over that finally I thlought God must be taking Pepto-Bismal on me, Some how I knew that God had forgiven me, and was under the worldly trap that I needed more forgiveness every time I sinned never finalizing that I was forgiven complete by God through Christ back at the cross before I was ever born here on earth. Then after learning that I am forgiven and approaching the throne of grace was not for any further forgiveness to be executed it was for me to learn waht I needed above anything else was life, I was dead even in christ I finally finalized I was forgiven by Christ but that never brought life for I was still striving to stop sin.
Then The Holy Ghost revealed to me that I need life in Christ that I am not saved by the death I am saved by the life and them that is what I asked for from God and I recieved and anything you ask for in my name (CHrist) it shall be done And even in Romans 5:10 it stets that since we all have been reconciled to Christ (forgiven) how much more shall we be saved by his life, ah! imputed righteousness by and through the Holy Ghost

The above post makes me literally feel sick inside. I have that horrible uneasiness reading it because it really lays out clearly what we are up against in the world today. It is upsetting to read.

There are times when I try to given the benefit of the doubt, "are some of the disagreements semantic issues," "is it just a lack of clarity outwardly but the heart is right," and then SLAM back to reality when I read something like this.

I would like to think that it is written with the best of intentions and from the heart of the person who wrote it. Yet the Spirit behind it is not of God, it simply cannot be because the Spirit of truth will not lead someone to say such things which are so contrary to scripture..

Many people will read it and no doubt agree with the sentiment.

It may feel warm and fuzzy, it may sound like love and mercy, yet does it actually line up with the Bible? Truth is not about emotion or what makes us feel good, truth is about reality, truth is about what is real.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Homwardbound... you have given a very clear testimony of being "saved in your sins." Let's examine what you wrote briefly...

Skinski I was a porn addict on the internet looking at pitures and videos, sometimes a long time in between and sometimes not I grew in grace I trusted God for this to go I never knew when or how but it did, and it was not by me that this ceased. I was continuously at the throne of grace, begging pleading trying to believe asking for forgiveness over and over that finally I thlought God must be taking Pepto-Bismal on me,

Here you are in bondage to sin yet in deep conviction over it. There was a part of you that abhorred what you were doing yet you compelled to keep doing it. You claim you were continuously at the throne of grace asking for forgiveness again and again.

Some how I knew that God had forgiven me, and was under the worldly trap that I needed more forgiveness every time I sinned never finalizing that I was forgiven complete by God through Christ back at the cross before I was ever born here on earth.

So now "somehow" you come to the notion that you were actually already forgiven even though you kept engaging in your sin again and again.

What do you do with Scriptures like this Homward???

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

You had clearly not forsaken your way or your thoughts yet "somehow" you concluded that you were already pardoned. What do you do with Isa 55:7 and the other scriptures which teach the same thing?

The reason I ask is because what you are asserting is the DIRECT OPPOSITE of what the Bible teaches. It is the direct opposite of that verse.

I read this statement of yours...

I was forgiven complete by God through Christ back at the cross before I was ever born here on earth.

Here you assert that you were already forgiven. Your sins were already remitted before you were even born you believe. I can only assume that you hold to Penal Substitution whereby you believe Jesus absorbed the wrath of God and thus it has been FULLY paid for and thus cannot be held due over your own head. There is no other atonement model which teaches that uncommitted sins are forgiven in advance.

So what do you do when you read "repentance for remission" in the Bible? Do you just dismiss it?

If your experience of being reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus Christ involved realising that you were already forgiven and thus concluding that you were reconciled to God simply by "believing it" (because you trusted in the Finished Work on the Cross) and then you continued to engage in sin then there can be no doubt that your reconciliation experience was false.

It is impossible to be reconciled to God in the midst of rebellion. The Bible is so clear on this...

Do you seriously believe that you can be engaged actively in watching porn and WALKING in the light at the same time????

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


Do you seriously believe that you can enter boldly into the Holy of Holies in the new and living way with a TRUE heart in full assurance of faith whilst still engaged in pornography?

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Your Gospel basically has the Prodigal Son being reconciled to God in the pig pen merely because he is convicted over his sin. The father puts the robe on the son in the pig pen and puts the ring on his finger in the pig pen and then celebrates the restoration of the son. Now that the son is restored the work begins of gradually getting him out of the pig pen.

Isn't that exactly what you are claiming? Are you not claiming you were reconciled in the pig pen? You were forgiven already even though you continued in sin?


I am not trying to insult you or hurt your feelings. I am simply trying to illicit a response regarding how your theology is completely opposite to what the Bible teaches.

Is the Spirit of God really going to contradict the words given us in the Bible? Are God's saints really going to teach the opposite of that in the Bible?

What happens when someone hears your message? Do they also conclude that they are already forgiven whilst they are still engaged in their sin?

Isn't what you are teaching a round about way of telling people that they CAN SIN and not surely die?

 

[Grandpa]

The Imputed Righteousness of Christ is really simple.

When we ask the Lord to forgive us of our sins what happens?

We are forgiven by the Lord Jesus Christ, by faith.

What does that make us? Sinless.

What is sinless? Righteous.

Continuing on...

The prayers of a righteous man avail much.

Who is a righteous man?

One who has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and had his sins forgiven.

If we rely on our own righteousness by our own deeds we are attempting to come to the feast dressed in our own garments. Like Abiding was alluding to. This doesn't end well for those people.

But when we are clothed in His Righteousness that He gives us, who can be against us?

 

[zone]

The above post makes me literally feel sick inside. I have that horrible uneasiness reading it because it really lays out clearly what we are up against in the world today. It is upsetting to read.

There are times when I try to given the benefit of the doubt, "are some of the disagreements semantic issues," "is it just a lack of clarity outwardly but the heart is right," and then SLAM back to reality when I read something like this.

I would like to think that it is written with the best of intentions and from the heart of the person who wrote it. Yet the Spirit behind it is not of God, it simply cannot be because the Spirit of truth will not lead someone to say such things which are so contrary to scripture..

Many people will read it and no doubt agree with the sentiment.

It may feel warm and fuzzy, it may sound like love and mercy, yet does it actually line up with the Bible? Truth is not about emotion or what makes us feel good, truth is about reality, truth is about what is real.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Homwardbound... you have given a very clear testimony of being "saved in your sins." Let's examine what you wrote briefly...


Here you are in bondage to sin yet in deep conviction over it. There was a part of you that abhorred what you were doing yet you compelled to keep doing it. You claim you were continuously at the throne of grace asking for forgiveness again and again.

So now "somehow" you come to the notion that you were actually already forgiven even though you kept engaging in your sin again and again.

What do you do with Scriptures like this Homward???

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

You had clearly not forsaken your way or your thoughts yet "somehow" you concluded that you were already pardoned. What do you do with Isa 55:7 and the other scriptures which teach the same thing?

The reason I ask is because what you are asserting is the DIRECT OPPOSITE of what the Bible teaches. It is the direct opposite of that verse.

I read this statement of yours...



Here you assert that you were already forgiven. Your sins were already remitted before you were even born you believe. I can only assume that you hold to Penal Substitution whereby you believe Jesus absorbed the wrath of God and thus it has been FULLY paid for and thus cannot be held due over your own head. There is no other atonement model which teaches that uncommitted sins are forgiven in advance.

So what do you do when you read "repentance for remission" in the Bible? Do you just dismiss it?

If your experience of being reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus Christ involved realising that you were already forgiven and thus concluding that you were reconciled to God simply by "believing it" (because you trusted in the Finished Work on the Cross) and then you continued to engage in sin then there can be no doubt that your reconciliation experience was false.

It is impossible to be reconciled to God in the midst of rebellion. The Bible is so clear on this...

Do you seriously believe that you can be engaged actively in watching porn and WALKING in the light at the same time????

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

<HERE....LET'S ADD THE ENTIRE PASSAGE...JUST FOR CLARITY:

Walking in the Light
5This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

LOOKS A LITTLE DIFFERENT WHEN YOU DON'T CUT AWAY THE PART PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW RIGHT SCOTT? YOU'RE PRO AT IT. >

Do you seriously believe that you can enter boldly into the Holy of Holies in the new and living way with a TRUE heart in full assurance of faith whilst still engaged in pornography?

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Your Gospel basically has the Prodigal Son being reconciled to God in the pig pen merely because he is convicted over his sin. The father puts the robe on the son in the pig pen and puts the ring on his finger in the pig pen and then celebrates the restoration of the son. Now that the son is restored the work begins of gradually getting him out of the pig pen.

Isn't that exactly what you are claiming? Are you not claiming you were reconciled in the pig pen? You were forgiven already even though you continued in sin?


I am not trying to insult you or hurt your feelings. I am simply trying to illicit a response regarding how your theology is completely opposite to what the Bible teaches.

Is the Spirit of God really going to contradict the words given us in the Bible? Are God's saints really going to teach the opposite of that in the Bible?

What happens when someone hears your message? Do they also conclude that they are already forgiven whilst they are still engaged in their sin?

Isn't what you are teaching a round about way of telling people that they CAN SIN and not surely die?

ya homewardbound.

Scott has determined you have had a false conversion - are not saved, and that you are a false teacher well.

 

[tribesman]

The Imputed Righteousness of Christ is really simple.

When we ask the Lord to forgive us of our sins what happens?

We are forgiven by the Lord Jesus Christ, by faith.

What does that make us? Sinless.

What is sinless? Righteous.

Continuing on...

The prayers of a righteous man avail much.

Who is a righteous man?

One who has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and had his sins forgiven.

If we rely on our own righteousness by our own deeds we are attempting to come to the feast dressed in our own garments. Like Abiding was alluding to. This doesn't end well for those people.

But when we are clothed in His Righteousness that He gives us, who can be against us?

Even the 5 years old (and I mean earthly years) believers understands this and live in this and are at peace with it. But some men of age never seem to learn it. Strange, isn't it...?

Matt.11

[23] And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
[24] But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
[25] At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
[26] Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
[27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
[28] Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Luke.18

[17] Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

 

[Grandpa]

The above post makes me literally feel sick inside. I have that horrible uneasiness reading it because it really lays out clearly what we are up against in the world today. It is upsetting to read.

There are times when I try to given the benefit of the doubt, "are some of the disagreements semantic issues," "is it just a lack of clarity outwardly but the heart is right," and then SLAM back to reality when I read something like this.

I would like to think that it is written with the best of intentions and from the heart of the person who wrote it. Yet the Spirit behind it is not of God, it simply cannot be because the Spirit of truth will not lead someone to say such things which are so contrary to scripture..

Many people will read it and no doubt agree with the sentiment.

It may feel warm and fuzzy, it may sound like love and mercy, yet does it actually line up with the Bible? Truth is not about emotion or what makes us feel good, truth is about reality, truth is about what is real.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Homwardbound... you have given a very clear testimony of being "saved in your sins." Let's examine what you wrote briefly...


Here you are in bondage to sin yet in deep conviction over it. There was a part of you that abhorred what you were doing yet you compelled to keep doing it. You claim you were continuously at the throne of grace asking for forgiveness again and again.

So now "somehow" you come to the notion that you were actually already forgiven even though you kept engaging in your sin again and again.

What do you do with Scriptures like this Homward???

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

You had clearly not forsaken your way or your thoughts yet "somehow" you concluded that you were already pardoned. What do you do with Isa 55:7 and the other scriptures which teach the same thing?

The reason I ask is because what you are asserting is the DIRECT OPPOSITE of what the Bible teaches. It is the direct opposite of that verse.

I read this statement of yours...



Here you assert that you were already forgiven. Your sins were already remitted before you were even born you believe. I can only assume that you hold to Penal Substitution whereby you believe Jesus absorbed the wrath of God and thus it has been FULLY paid for and thus cannot be held due over your own head. There is no other atonement model which teaches that uncommitted sins are forgiven in advance.

So what do you do when you read "repentance for remission" in the Bible? Do you just dismiss it?

If your experience of being reconciled to God through the blood of Jesus Christ involved realising that you were already forgiven and thus concluding that you were reconciled to God simply by "believing it" (because you trusted in the Finished Work on the Cross) and then you continued to engage in sin then there can be no doubt that your reconciliation experience was false.

It is impossible to be reconciled to God in the midst of rebellion. The Bible is so clear on this...

Do you seriously believe that you can be engaged actively in watching porn and WALKING in the light at the same time????

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


Do you seriously believe that you can enter boldly into the Holy of Holies in the new and living way with a TRUE heart in full assurance of faith whilst still engaged in pornography?

Heb 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Heb 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Your Gospel basically has the Prodigal Son being reconciled to God in the pig pen merely because he is convicted over his sin. The father puts the robe on the son in the pig pen and puts the ring on his finger in the pig pen and then celebrates the restoration of the son. Now that the son is restored the work begins of gradually getting him out of the pig pen.

Isn't that exactly what you are claiming? Are you not claiming you were reconciled in the pig pen? You were forgiven already even though you continued in sin?


I am not trying to insult you or hurt your feelings. I am simply trying to illicit a response regarding how your theology is completely opposite to what the Bible teaches.

Is the Spirit of God really going to contradict the words given us in the Bible? Are God's saints really going to teach the opposite of that in the Bible?

What happens when someone hears your message? Do they also conclude that they are already forgiven whilst they are still engaged in their sin?

Isn't what you are teaching a round about way of telling people that they CAN SIN and not surely die?

How many times do you need to be shown that the Lord Jesus came for sinners?

Our only chance at salvation is to admit that we sin, that we are trapped in that sin with no remedy except to cry out to Him and hope that He will change us and pull us out of it.

Salvation is for sinners.

The righteous don't need salvation, do they? They are already righteous.

Now if you could look at the Law the way the Lord has magnified it you would understand there are none that are righteous, but the Lord Jesus.

So you can attempt to come against the faith of some but the fact is we come into the light not as perfectly transformed into the likeness of Christ but as people that want to be transformed into the likeness of Christ.

Who is more thankful to the Lord Jesus, the man who has purged himself of sin, or the man who couldn't do it himself and had to ask for the Lords Help???

 

[RedTent]

The Imputed Righteousness of Christ is really simple.

When we ask the Lord to forgive us of our sins what happens?

We are forgiven by the Lord Jesus Christ, by faith.

What does that make us? Sinless.

What is sinless? Righteous.

Continuing on...

The prayers of a righteous man avail much.

Who is a righteous man?

One who has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and had his sins forgiven.

If we rely on our own righteousness by our own deeds we are attempting to come to the feast dressed in our own garments. Like Abiding was alluding to. This doesn't end well for those people.

But when we are clothed in His Righteousness that He gives us, who can be against us?

Grandpa, you are making a fine picture of how righteousness is, but you are leaving out a piece. It is like cutting out a piece of a ball, the ball doesn't bounce unless it is complete. You have forgiveness, faith, and i can see how grace fits in. But this leads to our part in this, and that is listening to Christ. He gives us the Holy Spirit within us, but that does not make us irresponsible robots. It is up to us to act on Christ' leading.