Old Covenant New Covenant.

[cenallen]

@ed12
we cannot assume that or we will contradict ourselves instead.

what time was Jesus buried on friday?
Jesus didn't have to spent the whole 24hrs on Friday in burial. He spent the rest of the Friday or remaining hours in burial so it counts.
Day and NIght.
Day as in, even though it is 9am, he is in burial, however it is dark inside the tomb therefore the day and night are happening simultaneous.

Why do we have night? because that is when darkness comes in, darkness is what separate light.
But Jesus was in constant darkness all the time, but the day was still counting.

in fact thank you for bringing out Hebrew 3, it corresponds to Hebrew 4 because 4 also talks about -TODAY-.
Hebrews 3 is referring Today as everyday, so that we can encourage ourselves to strengthen in the Lord and not fall short.


and this is what Hebrews 4 clearly says

straight and simple!
The PROMISE of the day of rest STILL STANDS meaning we still need to honour 7th day Sabbath.


who is he talking about?
he is talking about disobedient whom also have heard the Gospel just as we did.
But they did not share the faith of those who believed in the Gospel.


what is this talking about?
people who argued and tested God, not having enough faith will NOT enter the rest day. But because Jesus introduced a new covenant through the Gospel. We can now enter that resting day again.


this is why Paul makes things hard to understand.
God spoke about the 7 day he blessed. He told the people following him who argued and tested him, in anger God declared they will not enter his rest. Now is God talking about those people alone or just any followers of God in Old Testament?

However the scripture is God's words, God saying they shall never enter my rest nullifies the purpose of him creating and blessing the 7th Day. This is why Jesus came and became the Lord of Sabbath. So God saying they will never enter his sabbath STILL stands. Just like the 7th day stands, God did not cancel the Sabbath, he just declared that people will not enter it.
But we can only enter it THROUGH Jesus because he is Lord of Sabbath.


exactly just what I said.
Sabbath day still remains! Yet people who had the Gospel still did not go in because of disobedient.


ok reading this now makes sense. Because if we look at Hebrews 3 it talks about being holy, righteous or following God daily. Or whenever we can Today in a week.


this is the quote Paul was talking about God giving them rest if Joshua had not
The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. joshua 21:44
God gave those clans rest...not us! It was talking about the town of Levites.




straight forward and simple!
if people use an excuse and say sabbath is anyday or today or everyday. You see that Paul just said if we are to enter the Lord's Sabbath, we should not work! (working as in working for food that spoils)


exactly...let us make every EFFORT to get into that rest!
meaning Sabbath is for man not man for sabbath.
if Man is for sabbath therefore WE HAVE to rest on Sabbath
but if Sabbath is for man (which it is) we have to TRY to rest on that day!




I will stick to Sabbath rest day...bible clearly says so. I won't be disobedient and use excuse that everyday/today is rest.

babies should learn in silence.
your home-spun doctrine gets worse with every post.

 

[ed12]

@ed12
we cannot assume that or we will contradict ourselves instead.

what time was Jesus buried on friday?
Jesus didn't have to spent the whole 24hrs on Friday in burial. He spent the rest of the Friday or remaining hours in burial so it counts.
Day and NIght.
Day as in, even though it is 9am, he is in burial, however it is dark inside the tomb therefore the day and night are happening simultaneous.

Why do we have night? because that is when darkness comes in, darkness is what separate light.
But Jesus was in constant darkness all the time, but the day was still counting.

in fact thank you for bringing out Hebrew 3, it corresponds to Hebrew 4 because 4 also talks about -TODAY-.
Hebrews 3 is referring Today as everyday, so that we can encourage ourselves to strengthen in the Lord and not fall short.


and this is what Hebrews 4 clearly says

straight and simple!
The PROMISE of the day of rest STILL STANDS meaning we still need to honour 7th day Sabbath.


who is he talking about?
he is talking about disobedient whom also have heard the Gospel just as we did.
But they did not share the faith of those who believed in the Gospel.


what is this talking about?
people who argued and tested God, not having enough faith will NOT enter the rest day. But because Jesus introduced a new covenant through the Gospel. We can now enter that resting day again.


this is why Paul makes things hard to understand.
God spoke about the 7 day he blessed. He told the people following him who argued and tested him, in anger God declared they will not enter his rest. Now is God talking about those people alone or just any followers of God in Old Testament?

However the scripture is God's words, God saying they shall never enter my rest nullifies the purpose of him creating and blessing the 7th Day. This is why Jesus came and became the Lord of Sabbath. So God saying they will never enter his sabbath STILL stands. Just like the 7th day stands, God did not cancel the Sabbath, he just declared that people will not enter it.
But we can only enter it THROUGH Jesus because he is Lord of Sabbath.


exactly just what I said.
Sabbath day still remains! Yet people who had the Gospel still did not go in because of disobedient.


ok reading this now makes sense. Because if we look at Hebrews 3 it talks about being holy, righteous or following God daily. Or whenever we can Today in a week.


this is the quote Paul was talking about God giving them rest if Joshua had not
The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. joshua 21:44
God gave those clans rest...not us! It was talking about the town of Levites.




straight forward and simple!
if people use an excuse and say sabbath is anyday or today or everyday. You see that Paul just said if we are to enter the Lord's Sabbath, we should not work! (working as in working for food that spoils)


exactly...let us make every EFFORT to get into that rest!
meaning Sabbath is for man not man for sabbath.
if Man is for sabbath therefore WE HAVE to rest on Sabbath
but if Sabbath is for man (which it is) we have to TRY to rest on that day!




I will stick to Sabbath rest day...bible clearly says so. I won't be disobedient and use excuse that everyday/today is rest.

Hi xino,
Well to me a day is 24 hours. I believe Jesus is very accurate.
You have a different belief ie part day = day.
So be it.
Thank you for responding.
love in Jesus
ed

 

[xino]

Hi xino,
Well to me a day is 24 hours. I believe Jesus is very accurate.
You have a different belief ie part day = day.
So be it.
Thank you for responding.
love in Jesus
ed

sorry
if you believe Jesus would spend 3 days and 3 nights in Earth, Then I am sorry it contradicts the bible and what Jesus said!

Jesus said "destroy this body and I will raise it in 3 days"

so counting Friday the day Jesus died with your 3 days and 3 nights would mean he was raised Monday!

 

[ed12]

sorry
if you believe Jesus would spend 3 days and 3 nights in Earth, Then I am sorry it contradicts the bible and what Jesus said!

Jesus said "destroy this body and I will raise it in 3 days"

so counting Friday the day Jesus died with your 3 days and 3 nights would mean he was raised Monday!

Hi xino,
We live our belief, hopefully. I live mine to the best of my ability. On this issue we believe differently.

love in Jesus
ed

 

[Laodicea]

Hebrews 9:19-20 KJV
(19) For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
(20) Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

First the old covenant was given then they used blood to seal the covenant.

Hebrews 9:12 KJV
(12) Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Then with the new covenant, first the covenant was given then was the blood. The new covenant was sealed with the blood of Christ. The old used the blood of animals while the new the blood of Christ.

 

[RedTent]

Let’s go straight to the heart of the matter, what does the new covenant do and did it wipe out the old covenant?

Christ is the center of the new covenant. He shed his blood for our sins. When Eve decided on having the knowledge of both good and evil, there was a change in the makeup of man, man no longer lived forever but sin and death entered. God sent Christ to counteract sin, we could be forgiven. For thousands of years, atonement was achieved by using a symbol of Christ, then Christ came in the flesh and there was a new covenant. The new covenant wiped out the need of a symbol of Christ, the new covenant was the actual blood of Christ. Along with that was the Holy Spirit given to all men who acceptedChrist. That is the new covenant.

What it wiped out was the animal blood, the symbolic blood of Christ and the real thing was given to us. There was a change in the world. But the change did not include that God changed. The world still ran on the same God principles that it always had. The change was that we were given an opportunity to grow in spirit through Christ. The Holy Spirit, if we listen to it, helped us with spiritual understanding.

Forgiveness of our sins, cleaning ourselves for God was needed before Christ, forgiveness is needed after Christ. Obedience is needed the same then and now. God wants his kingdom to be alive on earth then and now. God gave rules and regulations for this before Christ. Those rules and regulations, as far as the results they were to achieve, are still required, although we are to rely more on the Holy Spirit to achieve them now. The physical rules were to help us achieve the spiritual ones.

God is the same. We are given and blessed with a way to grow,to improve on the old covenant.

 

[psychomom]

Let’s go straight to the heart of the matter, what does the new covenant do and did it wipe out the old covenant?

Christ is the center of the new covenant. He shed his blood for our sins. When Eve decided on having the knowledge of both good and evil, there was a change in the makeup of man, man no longer lived forever but sin and death entered. God sent Christ to counteract sin, we could be forgiven. For thousands of years, atonement was achieved by using a symbol of Christ, then Christ came in the flesh and there was a new covenant. The new covenant wiped out the need of a symbol of Christ, the new covenant was the actual blood of Christ. Along with that was the Holy Spirit given to all men who acceptedChrist. That is the new covenant.

What it wiped out was the animal blood, the symbolic blood of Christ and the real thing was given to us. There was a change in the world. But the change did not include that God changed. The world still ran on the same God principles that it always had. The change was that we were given an opportunity to grow in spirit through Christ. The Holy Spirit, if we listen to it, helped us with spiritual understanding.

Forgiveness of our sins, cleaning ourselves for God was needed before Christ, forgiveness is needed after Christ. Obedience is needed the same then and now. God wants his kingdom to be alive on earth then and now. God gave rules and regulations for this before Christ. Those rules and regulations, as far as the results they were to achieve, are still required, although we are to rely more on the Holy Spirit to achieve them now. The physical rules were to help us achieve the spiritual ones.

God is the same. We are given and blessed with a way to grow,to improve on the old covenant.

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb.13:8)

 

[RedTent]

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb.13:8)[/COLOR]

I know, and I have prayed about this for understanding. But what is made obsolete? We can say nothing of God is made obsolete. We know the blood of animals is obsolete, and the importance of rituals gives way to the importance of the spiritual meaning of them, as we can now understand through the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not obsolete. It takes great understanding to know what God is telling us.

 

[Laodicea]

Hebrews 9:19-20 KJV
(19) For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
(20) Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

First the old covenant was given then they used blood to seal the covenant.

Hebrews 9:12 KJV
(12) Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Then with the new covenant, first the covenant was given then was the blood. The new covenant was sealed with the blood of Christ. The old used the blood of animals while the new the blood of Christ.

Exodus 34:28 KJV
(28) And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

So then the old covenant is the 10 commandments covered by the blood of animals while the new is the 10 commandments covered by the blood of Christ. Mercy and truth.

Psalms 89:14 KJV
(14) Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

 

[psychomom]

What was made obsolete, or abrogated, was the covenant with the nation of Israel.
All of it.

God's moral Law is explained and expanded under the New Covenant, which is in place only for the believer in Jesus Christ.

 

[loveme1]

When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb.13:8)

Hebrews 13:8

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

i went to the Scripture and found this as per your Hebrew 13:8 that was meant to be Heb 8:13 and smiled at what was written considering the thread's topic

 

[Ariel82]

wow an SDA thread... well mostly, mix in a gnostic and see what you get.

Galatians 3

Galatians 3

New King James Version (NKJV)

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,[SUP][a][/SUP] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you[SUP][b][/SUP] as crucified? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— [SUP]6 [/SUP]just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]9 [/SUP]So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[SUP][g][/SUP]

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[SUP][h][/SUP]), [SUP]14 [/SUP]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

"the importance of rituals gives way to the importance of the spiritual meaning of them"

yes for example the ritual of Sabbath is given way to the actual rest found in Christ, but as long as they do it for God's sake I'm not going to debate about it for the Bible says:

Romans 14:4-6

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[SUP][a][/SUP] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.

what is the law written in our hearts by God in the NEW covenant?

Matthew 22

[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

O, CCers do not be deceived.

Acts 15

[SUP]23 [/SUP]They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”[SUP][f][/SUP] —to whom we gave no such commandment— [SUP]25 [/SUP]it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, [SUP]26 [/SUP]men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]27 [/SUP]We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. [SUP]28 [/SUP]For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: [SUP]29 [/SUP]that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.[SUP][g][/SUP] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

in this case its not you must be circumcised but you must observe the Sabbath on Saturday and keep the law.....though there is hope that this set of SDA don't teach that.

Yes God is the same but human understand is not.

 

[loveme1]

While the "you shall/not" exists then it is not the Law of Love.

It becomes a "i shall/not".

 

[psychomom]

Hebrews 13:8



i went to the Scripture and found this as per your Hebrew 13:8 that was meant to be Heb 8:13 and smiled at what was written considering the thread's topic

Thanks for correcting my dyslexia.

However, it doesn't change the fact the old covenant is obsolete in Christ Jesus, and I'm pretty sure we agree on that. ♥

 

[loveme1]

Thanks for correcting my dyslexia.

However, it doesn't change the fact the old covenant is obsolete in Christ Jesus, and I'm pretty sure we agree on that. ♥

I wanted to share with you rather than correct

Of course the Messiah is the New Covenant of Yahvah God with us.

 

[homwardbound]

Understanding what God wants us to know about the covenants IS important. What some people are saying about it amounts to denying God the Father, and that is blasphemy. Understanding is important to our very life. Let me point out why and how I think some well meaning people are going wrong.


What Paul is talking about here is the “works of the law”. If you were living in that time, or studied the history of what was going on at that time you would be aware that the Jews were saying that if you wanted to join them you must go through a ceremonial rite that included circumcision and other rituals to prove your sincerity. It was very like some of our churches ask for a certain ceremony when we join. God had Paul explain to us that it wasn’t the ceremony but the heart that the joining consisted of.

The law is from God, the “works of the law” is suggestions for living out the spiritual law, and it is the spiritual law that is important. To put in Paul’s mouth the thought, even, that we are not to listen to God is wrong. Paul often told us to not only hear but do. Paul would never, ever, contradict God and himself.


To this I say amen. Some say the new covenant wiped out the old, we are not to listen to God because of it! Gotime makes it clear that the old is with us, to be listened to, and we each have the Holy Spirit within us for an added blessing.

Isn't what is written on our hearts by the Spirit the two greatest commandments that are both LOVE and are thefulfillment of the ten? and is not this LOVE 1 cor. 13 the best explanation of this LOVE? Because this is not natural in any Human is it? but is not this what God wants to impute in anyone that chooses to believe? For are we not to be a peculiar people and this type of Love is proof that we no longer belong to this world yes? Just wondering

 

[homwardbound]

Many have stumbled over this Issue. This is important to understand because salvation is very much connected to your conclusion on this.

Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Here is why Abraham received the blessings, because he kept Gods law.

.

I am pointing this out to you that even though itappears from this scripture that he was blessed for obeying
The real ? is how did he obey and this was before the Ten Commandments was ever in place
WAs it not by and through and because of FAITH that he obeyed what god wanted yes he did the works that God said God wanted but how was this counted to him as righteousenss?

Hebrews 11: 8-10
[h=3]Faithful Abraham[/h][SUP]8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. [SUP]9 [/SUP]By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; [SUP]10 [/SUP]for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
Has it not always been by Faith believing in God our builder and maker? Has it not from day one of the fall been through Mercy God's and then our trust (Faith) in God to do Father's will which brings life to the dead, Which hebrews 11 the whole chapter brings forth that if you want life it is not by trying to obey the ten commandments, The Ten commandments was put in place to show us our inability to do what is right without God the creator of all.
Is this true for the blessing of Abraham by Faith was 430 years before the Law Ten Commandments was ever put in place yes or no?

 

[homwardbound]

hmm interesting, I will deeply look into this because I asked another brother at my work and he said similar thing that we have to be holy.


ok so Sabbath is everyday right?
why do we go to church on sundays then?

i believe it is time for me to find a church that operates on saturday instead.

makes no sense to me that we go church on sunday thus confusing many sunday is sabbath.

Romans 14 a good chapter to read about everty day being alike and one observing one day above another and Hebrews 3 and 4 for the rest in Christ that is here and now by belief not work, even though works follow the believer not being the believers work actually being God's work of Love through the Believer implanted in the believer the Love of God found 1 Cor. 13 thathe desires to demonstrate through you the believer

 

[homwardbound]

Thing about Old and New Covenants

These are about ways of service to God and not the means by which people receve everlasting life from God.

David believed in a redeemer

So did Job

The prophets foretold the redeemer

Jesus was around before He was in the human flesh form

Adam and Eve- how did they get their covering for their nakedness? Slaying an innocent animal to get animal skin right?

So an innocent animal slain to cover the sins of Adam and Eve. Picture of Jesus right there.


Eternal salvation same way OT and NT

Different means of serving God though.

well then doesn't it just boil down to belief ? Oh and God clothed them right God himself did the first sacrifice as in Mercy to them right?

 

[jimmydiggs]

I'm not big on Seventh Day Adventism.