Dual Covenant Theology

[zone]

Hold on.
I can see where you are coming from, But I disagree. But unlike Zone here., I will not condemn you to hell for disagreeing wiht me.

i have no idea of your standing with Lord. and no authority to condemn you to hell.

we're not in fellowship at this time.

that's all i have the authority to do.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you studied the history yet Mark?
Slamming questions at people isnt dialogue
lets see what you know about it

Not to stick up for mark. But talking with Zone getts people head boiling. maybe it would be better for mark to walk away and settle down a bit before he answers you.. and maybe you can show him a little lattitude.. Thats why I have to leave continually when Zone goes off like she does.

Mark, if your upset. walk away my friend when you calm down. and return. Abiding is not like zone here, just answer his questions calmly, he will not refuse to answer your questions.

 

[mark54]

Right Mark your completely right. im busted. ty
you proved it, your awesome mark did i ever tell you

They do say sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, you are letting ytourself down again but never mind
I am not awesome by the way, if I know any spiritual truth at all it is not because of any knowledge I in myself have achieved, of that I am certain

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So tell me Abiding, who was responsible for the nation of Israel being created in 1948?

Bankers?
The ungodly?
Heretics?
Apostates?

The united nations. Was God in it? We can not prove it, just speculate. so I would not go to the bank saying it was God, we may be wrong.

 

[Abiding]

This is where we differ. You see a metaphore. we see a literal fulfillment. this is why we can never find common ground.

but is this worth condemning people to hell??

Hey dont do what your slamming others for doing.
Metaphors are all over the bible and you dont know which ones
im talking about. so dont broadbrush it. And say we disagree or agree.
If you cant accept there are metaphors, similtudes, and such than
your not able at all to understand. Neither should you infer i dont see
any literal fullfilments.

 

[mark54]

Originally Posted by Abiding

Have you studied the history yet Mark?
Slamming questions at people isnt dialogue
lets see what you know about it


Well i will happily answer this one

Nope, no studying whatsoever, and it does not interest me to do so, I just believe God was ultimately responsible, that is all I need to know

Now Abiding, will you answer the question, who do you think was ultimately responsible for Israel becoming a nation again in 1948?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So tell me Abiding, who was responsible for the nation of Israel being created in 1948?

Bankers?
The ungodly?
Heretics?
Apostates?

The united nations. Was God in it? We can not prove it, just speculate. so I would not go to the bank saying it was God, we may be wrong.

 

[Abiding]

Not to stick up for mark. But talking with Zone getts people head boiling. maybe it would be better for mark to walk away and settle down a bit before he answers you.. and maybe you can show him a little lattitude.. Thats why I have to leave continually when Zone goes off like she does.

Mark, if your upset. walk away my friend when you calm down. and return. Abiding is not like zone here, just answer his questions calmly, he will not refuse to answer your questions.

EG you know zone, and i read the whole thread before i responded. Ill say this about it all.

Both of you stayed here knowing full well what would happen if you did. This isnt your first day
on the job.

Therefore i hold you accountable....you couldnt ever have expected anything different.
So dont play innocent.

About mark? Ive got nothing to say...but that in this thread right now i dont find
him sincere one bit....hes just tossing eggs. If he cared hed have dialogue, but
he only challanges to make a point. Well cool whatever.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

OH I know, you and Abiding see it through the lens of natural man made events as it were, for you look at it from a humn perspective

lets not go here.. Lets just study the word..

 

[mark54]

The united nations. Was God in it? We can not prove it, just speculate. so I would not go to the bank saying it was God, we may be wrong.

On I know the united nations passed the vote EG
I am interested to know who Abiding believes was ultimately responsible for Israel becoming a nation again in 1948, that is all

 

[Abiding]

Originally Posted by Abiding

Have you studied the history yet Mark?
Slamming questions at people isnt dialogue
lets see what you know about it


Well i will happily answer this one

Nope, no studying whatsoever, and it does not interest me to do so, I just believe God was ultimately responsible, that is all I need to know

Now Abiding, will you answer the question, who do you think was ultimately responsible for Israel becoming a nation again in 1948?

Ultimately it was God, same as it was with Hitler...does that answer?

 

[mark54]

EG you know zone, and i read the whole thread before i responded. Ill say this about it all.

Both of you stayed here knowing full well what would happen if you did. This isnt your first day
on the job.

Therefore i hold you accountable....you couldnt ever have expected anything different.
So dont play innocent.

About mark? Ive got nothing to say...but that in this thread right now i dont find
him sincere one bit....hes just tossing eggs. If he cared hed have dialogue, but
he only challanges to make a point. Well cool whatever.

But Mark is not interested in a theological discussion over all of this from a human perspective, he freely admits that doesn't interest me one bit, I will happily admit Abiding you would know far, far, more than me the ins and outs as to how it practcally worked out Isreal becoming a nation, I only want to know one thing, who you believe was ultimatelty responsible for it happening, that's it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey dont do what your slamming others for doing.
Metaphors are all over the bible and you dont know which ones
im talking about. so dont broadbrush it. And say we disagree or agree.
If you cant accept there are metaphors, similtudes, and such than
your not able at all to understand. Neither should you infer i dont see
any literal fullfilments.

lol.. I was not saying you were condemning anyone brother. it was a joke, you should know this.

and secondly, i was trying to get you to admit that our sister was wrong.. I have not seen anyone say a word to her about what she has done today..condemning us to hell because we disagree with her and saying we teach a different gospel/. thats just wrong!

maybe people won't.. then I just wonder.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

On I know the united nations passed the vote EG
I am interested to know who Abiding believes was ultimately responsible for Israel becoming a nation again in 1948, that is all

well he is not calvanist, who would say God decreed it, and it was predestined..thus God did it, and we should not ask why.

so i am sure he will say what I just said.

 

[mark54]

Ultimately it was God, same as it was with Hitler...does that answer?

I like the way you tagged Hitler along to it
But yes, thanks for letting me know you believe God was responsible for Israel becoming a nation again in 1948

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG you know zone, and i read the whole thread before i responded. Ill say this about it all.

Both of you stayed here knowing full well what would happen if you did. This isnt your first day
on the job.

Therefore i hold you accountable....you couldnt ever have expected anything different.
So dont play innocent.

About mark? Ive got nothing to say...but that in this thread right now i dont find
him sincere one bit....hes just tossing eggs. If he cared hed have dialogue, but
he only challanges to make a point. Well cool whatever.

1. Your right. i did know, but I was not going to back down while she was lieing about me.
2. I did it to show the world she continues to misrepresent what I believe.

if that is wrong,, then i bow out..

but anyone who can condone what she did.. i just wonder!

it is no different than some of our calvanist threads.. and you should know this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I like the way you tagged Hitler along to it
But yes, thanks for letting me know you believe God was responsible for Israel becoming a nation again in 1948

still does not prove 1948 was prophesy being fulfilled, this is a stretch,, and we all should know it.

 

[Abiding]

Hold on.

I can see where you are coming from, But I disagree. But unlike Zone here., I will not condemn you to hell for disagreeing wiht me.

lets look at it in order

1st event:[SUP] 26 [/SUP]“And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

Fulfilled with the death of christ. One week (7 days) after messiah the prince came when he entered jerusalem.

2nd event: And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

Fuflilled in AD 70. some 37 years after the end of the 69th week was fulfilled.

the question is, Who is the prince who is to come, we do not know from this yet,, but Daniel is told later

3rd event: The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

Fulfilled? Are war desolations of jerusalem still happening? We can say yes, they have since the destruction of the city.. so we can logically determine, these events are still taking place.

4th event[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;

Who is he? He must be the "prince who is to come" And he must come from the people who destroyed jerusalem. which is WHY gabriels said the people of the prince who is yet to come (he was not around in the day they destroyed the city) will destroy the city. Otherwise, the comment of the prince who is to come makes no sense.

fulfilled? no one has made a seven year covenant yet. still waiting.

5th event. But in the middle of the week.He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,

He. who is he? the one who makes the covenant. Is He Christ? Christ did not enter the holy of holys, let alone defile it with a pagan unclean thing. (which is what the abomination means) Christ also did not stop sacrifice and offering even after he died. Sacrifice and offering never took away sin, And since the return from exile in babylon. Isreal has continually been in sin anyway,k so their sacrifices were not even seen by God, or blessed from that time on.

Fulfilled? Again, not happened yet, still waiting.

Next event. Even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate.”

Consumation? what consumation? this would be the time of Gods wrath, which is poured out on thei earth, The "time of great tribulation spoken of By Christ.. which shall be like non other seen before this time or after..

Who is the desolate? those who reject Christ.

Fulfilled? still waiting, for what happens when this is complete?

According to christ, his return!

EG i scanned it. And am not up to getting to it right now.
Im pouring coffee down the hatch right now.

But i did see a frightening statement ......that Jesus didnt enter the Holy of Holies.
OMG!

Ill come back to this later ok?

Yes i have answers to the rest and for sure the consummation etc

 

[zone]

who do you think was ultimately responsible for Israel becoming a nation again in 1948?

whatever gave you the idea that is Israel (Biblical Israel)?

 

[mark54]

still does not prove 1948 was prophesy being fulfilled, this is a stretch,, and we all should know it.

I have a simple faith EG, it is not what may be termed a grand theological faith. I meant what I said to Abiding it wouyld not interset me at all personally to go into the practicalities of what happened in 1948(though I have seen programmes on some of it) the only thing for me is, in my own mind I am assured that it was God who brought them back as fulfillment of biblical prophecy(though as you said, there is still much more to do)

If I delved into the subject, i might

start edging towards a Christianity that is not for me personally, but I am not finding fault with anyone else studying the subject as much as they wish to