Is infant baptism biblical?
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1 Corinthians 1:16—"I also baptized the household of Stephanas...."
he's certainly talking about it.
presumably, if the Gospel includes being baptized, it would be understood.
since the Church has been baptizing for 2000 years i thought it was understood.
either that or we've been blundering immensely.
but i'm researching cessation of water baptism now....see if there's anyone who has taught it throughout history.
he's certainly talking about it.
presumably, if the Gospel includes being baptized, it would be understood.
since the Church has been baptizing for 2000 years i thought it was understood.
either that or we've been blundering immensely.
but i'm researching cessation of water baptism now....see if there's anyone who has taught it throughout history.
k....so far found one site claiming water baptism ceased. but it has a virus so....
but will keep looking. if anyone has anything on it i can read i would be grateful.
i thought this guy was going to say it...so i read the whole article (short). he covers the various baptisms we've been discussing.
but then he closes with this (might as well post it):
Now, Though, "There Is One Baptism"
As noted, there are several baptisms mentioned in the Bible. Now, though, Paul says, "there is...one baptism" (Eph. 4:4, 5). He did not say "there has always been one baptism," neither did he say, "there will always be just "one baptism," but he said, "there is...one baptism." That being true, which baptisms have ceased? Obviously, we are not under John's baptism today (Acts 19:1-5). Certainly, we all realize that the baptism of Moses does not continue (1 Cor. 10:1, 2). The Lord and his baptism of suffering does not continue today. The apostles received it, but it is not for believers today as it was for them. It has been "accomplished" (Lk. 12:50). The baptism of fire has not yet occurred (Matt. 3:7-12). No one should desire it! That baptism of fire is in an "unquenchable fire" (Matt. 3:12). It is, therefore the baptism of fire in hell, that is, "into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" (Cf. Matt. 3:12; Mk. 9:45, 46).
Since there is now, in our age, "one baptism," which of the two, water or Holy Spirit, has ceased? When the purpose of the baptisms that have ceased was fulfilled, the baptism ceased. For example, when the baptism "unto Moses" achieved its purpose, when Israel was finally separated from Egyptian bondage, that baptism was never repeated. When the baptism of John accomplished its purpose, it, too, was terminated (Acts 19:1-5).
Thus, of the two, water or Holy Spirit baptism, which has fulfilled its purpose, its mission? Is the word of God incomplete? Do men today need to receive more truth? No, for we have "all truth," "the perfect law of liberty," "all things that pertain unto life and godliness," "the faith once (one time for all time) delivered" (Jn. 16:13; Jas. 1:25; 2 Pet. 1:3; Jude 3). The Scriptures are able to furnish the man of God completely unto every good work (2 Tim. 3:16, 17). Hence, we do not need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the apostles received it. The purpose has been fulfilled. We have all truth, the whole and complete truth of God.
The household of Cornelius received Holy Spirit baptism. Do men today still need to be convinced that Gentiles are amenable to the gospel? No, all recognize the universal nature and appeal of the gospel-"teach all nations," "into all the world," "in every nation," "whosoever will." Holy Spirit baptism is not required in our day to demonstrate that Jesus died for all men and that "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Its point and purpose has been attained.
When the purpose of the baptism of Moses was met, it ended, never to be repeated again. When John's baptism met its goal, it was no longer valid. Likewise, since the purposes of Holy Spirit baptism have been fulfilled, it is no longer being employed. Jesus is not baptizing people in the Holy Spirit as he once did.
What of water baptism? Does it continue? If so, why? Well, water baptism in the name of Christ is "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). Men must be baptized in order to be saved (Mk. 16:16). Do men today need the forgiveness of sins? Do men today still need to be saved? If so, then water baptism continues. It will exist as long as there are men who need to be forgiven of their sins and saved. So, since there is "one baptism," which one is left? Which one, of all the baptisms previously cited, which one has a purpose that is still necessary? Which baptism is needed with respect to its purpose as stated in Scripture? Why, water baptism, of course.
Now, if ever there comes a time when everyone is saved, if there were ever a time when there were no lost sinners, if every man were forgiven, would water baptism continue? No, for its purpose would no longer be necessary. That is why the other baptisms ceased. So, water baptism would end and would no longer be practiced if everyone were saved. Obviously, that has not happened, and water baptism continues. It is, therefore, the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5.
There Is ... One Baptism ~ Larry Ray Hafley < click
he rejects kids etc be baptised (i think)
dunno.
processing.....
but will keep looking. if anyone has anything on it i can read i would be grateful.
i thought this guy was going to say it...so i read the whole article (short). he covers the various baptisms we've been discussing.
but then he closes with this (might as well post it):
Now, Though, "There Is One Baptism"
As noted, there are several baptisms mentioned in the Bible. Now, though, Paul says, "there is...one baptism" (Eph. 4:4, 5). He did not say "there has always been one baptism," neither did he say, "there will always be just "one baptism," but he said, "there is...one baptism." That being true, which baptisms have ceased? Obviously, we are not under John's baptism today (Acts 19:1-5). Certainly, we all realize that the baptism of Moses does not continue (1 Cor. 10:1, 2). The Lord and his baptism of suffering does not continue today. The apostles received it, but it is not for believers today as it was for them. It has been "accomplished" (Lk. 12:50). The baptism of fire has not yet occurred (Matt. 3:7-12). No one should desire it! That baptism of fire is in an "unquenchable fire" (Matt. 3:12). It is, therefore the baptism of fire in hell, that is, "into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched" (Cf. Matt. 3:12; Mk. 9:45, 46).
Since there is now, in our age, "one baptism," which of the two, water or Holy Spirit, has ceased? When the purpose of the baptisms that have ceased was fulfilled, the baptism ceased. For example, when the baptism "unto Moses" achieved its purpose, when Israel was finally separated from Egyptian bondage, that baptism was never repeated. When the baptism of John accomplished its purpose, it, too, was terminated (Acts 19:1-5).
Thus, of the two, water or Holy Spirit baptism, which has fulfilled its purpose, its mission? Is the word of God incomplete? Do men today need to receive more truth? No, for we have "all truth," "the perfect law of liberty," "all things that pertain unto life and godliness," "the faith once (one time for all time) delivered" (Jn. 16:13; Jas. 1:25; 2 Pet. 1:3; Jude 3). The Scriptures are able to furnish the man of God completely unto every good work (2 Tim. 3:16, 17). Hence, we do not need to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the apostles received it. The purpose has been fulfilled. We have all truth, the whole and complete truth of God.
The household of Cornelius received Holy Spirit baptism. Do men today still need to be convinced that Gentiles are amenable to the gospel? No, all recognize the universal nature and appeal of the gospel-"teach all nations," "into all the world," "in every nation," "whosoever will." Holy Spirit baptism is not required in our day to demonstrate that Jesus died for all men and that "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Its point and purpose has been attained.
When the purpose of the baptism of Moses was met, it ended, never to be repeated again. When John's baptism met its goal, it was no longer valid. Likewise, since the purposes of Holy Spirit baptism have been fulfilled, it is no longer being employed. Jesus is not baptizing people in the Holy Spirit as he once did.
What of water baptism? Does it continue? If so, why? Well, water baptism in the name of Christ is "for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38). Men must be baptized in order to be saved (Mk. 16:16). Do men today need the forgiveness of sins? Do men today still need to be saved? If so, then water baptism continues. It will exist as long as there are men who need to be forgiven of their sins and saved. So, since there is "one baptism," which one is left? Which one, of all the baptisms previously cited, which one has a purpose that is still necessary? Which baptism is needed with respect to its purpose as stated in Scripture? Why, water baptism, of course.
Now, if ever there comes a time when everyone is saved, if there were ever a time when there were no lost sinners, if every man were forgiven, would water baptism continue? No, for its purpose would no longer be necessary. That is why the other baptisms ceased. So, water baptism would end and would no longer be practiced if everyone were saved. Obviously, that has not happened, and water baptism continues. It is, therefore, the "one baptism" of Ephesians 4:5.
There Is ... One Baptism ~ Larry Ray Hafley < click
he rejects kids etc be baptised (i think)
dunno.
processing.....
1
There is a strain of dispensationalism that teaches water baptism has ceased.
The Grace Gospel Fellowship is one of them.
Doctrinal Statement - Grace Gospel Fellowship
The Grace Gospel Fellowship is one of them.
Doctrinal Statement - Grace Gospel Fellowship
k....this guys say water baptism ceased (i see some serious issues already i think - but that's just prolly me):
"The book of Acts describes the transition from one program to another. The law program was slowly being phased out while the mystery was being introduced. This means for a while aspects of both programs were in existence. The period of Acts was written between 48 to 55AD and the following books were written during this time period: Galatians, I & II Thessalonians, I & II Corinthians, and Romans. The book of Corinthians was written about 55 AD and in I Corinthians 8-13 Paul is telling us that the sign gifts like prophecy, tongues, … shall cease, fail, and vanish. That we only know and prophesy in part. We are like a child without full understanding but some day we will have full understanding then we will put away the prophecy, tongues, and other sign gifts and become mature adults. Paul is telling us we do not have a clear picture yet or full understanding. Paul illustrates this by using an analogy of a mirror (mirror at that time were usually polished metal that distorted the image.) With them you could not get an accurate likeness of the image. But Paul then goes on to finish the analogy by saying some day we will see clearly. He emphasis this point by saying we only know in part; we do not yet have the full knowledge but some day we will have the full knowledge.
Paul received the knowledge of the mystery gradually over a period of time and when Corinthians was written Paul only knew part of God’s plan but about five years later when he penned the book of Ephesians Paul had the full knowledge of the mystery. In the following verses again you can see Paul using the Greek word epiginosko, which emphasizes a full or complete knowledge.
Ephesians 1:16-19 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
and
Colosians 1:9-10 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
What a wonderful possession this is for the body of Christ. Once it was revealed and the full knowledge of it was made known, we stopped seeing in part. Instead of seeing in a mirror darkly we are now seeing clearly. This is what makes the mystery so special because we have been blessed with the whole truth.
God has called up Paul to be an apostle to preach this good news of grace. Now that grace is being preached water baptism is no longer required for salvation. During this transition period Paul did baptize a few people but you will never find it written anywhere that he did this for the reemission of sins. Remember Paul did not get the whole truth of the new gospel all at one time. God delivered it to him in several direct revelations over a 10 to 14 year period. Once Paul had the full knowledge of the mystery, he ceased to baptize people. Later Paul even makes mention that he is thankful he did not baptize more and even an attitude of non importance regarding baptism can be seen in his writings....
Grace Points: Is Water Baptism Required for Salvation? < click
cont....
):"The book of Acts describes the transition from one program to another. The law program was slowly being phased out while the mystery was being introduced. This means for a while aspects of both programs were in existence. The period of Acts was written between 48 to 55AD and the following books were written during this time period: Galatians, I & II Thessalonians, I & II Corinthians, and Romans. The book of Corinthians was written about 55 AD and in I Corinthians 8-13 Paul is telling us that the sign gifts like prophecy, tongues, … shall cease, fail, and vanish. That we only know and prophesy in part. We are like a child without full understanding but some day we will have full understanding then we will put away the prophecy, tongues, and other sign gifts and become mature adults. Paul is telling us we do not have a clear picture yet or full understanding. Paul illustrates this by using an analogy of a mirror (mirror at that time were usually polished metal that distorted the image.) With them you could not get an accurate likeness of the image. But Paul then goes on to finish the analogy by saying some day we will see clearly. He emphasis this point by saying we only know in part; we do not yet have the full knowledge but some day we will have the full knowledge.
Paul received the knowledge of the mystery gradually over a period of time and when Corinthians was written Paul only knew part of God’s plan but about five years later when he penned the book of Ephesians Paul had the full knowledge of the mystery. In the following verses again you can see Paul using the Greek word epiginosko, which emphasizes a full or complete knowledge.
Ephesians 1:16-19 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
and
Colosians 1:9-10 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
What a wonderful possession this is for the body of Christ. Once it was revealed and the full knowledge of it was made known, we stopped seeing in part. Instead of seeing in a mirror darkly we are now seeing clearly. This is what makes the mystery so special because we have been blessed with the whole truth.
God has called up Paul to be an apostle to preach this good news of grace. Now that grace is being preached water baptism is no longer required for salvation. During this transition period Paul did baptize a few people but you will never find it written anywhere that he did this for the reemission of sins. Remember Paul did not get the whole truth of the new gospel all at one time. God delivered it to him in several direct revelations over a 10 to 14 year period. Once Paul had the full knowledge of the mystery, he ceased to baptize people. Later Paul even makes mention that he is thankful he did not baptize more and even an attitude of non importance regarding baptism can be seen in his writings....
Grace Points: Is Water Baptism Required for Salvation? < click
cont....
A
i reckon right now i gotta find out if we are commanded to baptize in water at all first.
forget the baptismal regeneration or kids thingee.
shazamo - i tot this was gonna be sumpin' else when i started
forget the baptismal regeneration or kids thingee.
shazamo - i tot this was gonna be sumpin' else when i started
Like i said im just concerned what the bible says for i have NEVER found comfort
in any church tradition. I want to but cant. To much nonesence in them all.
But i always ponder on what John said right there in front of Jesus, then reiterated
twice in Acts 1:5 then by Peter. Then the evidence of it changing over to another step
of Holyspirit baptism with laying on hands with signs(we know why that happened and ceased)
Then just belief. In John the baptists statement i see a total statement beyond arguement.
Others should do as they feel is right according to their faith
1
i reckon right now i gotta find out if we are commanded to baptize in water at all first.
forget the baptismal regeneration or kids thingee.
shazamo - i tot this was gonna be sumpin' else when i started
forget the baptismal regeneration or kids thingee.
shazamo - i tot this was gonna be sumpin' else when i started
Baptism is considered a foundational doctrine.
6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [SUP]2[/SUP]of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And this we will[SUP][a][/SUP] do if God permits.
1 Peter 3
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[SUP][e][/SUP] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, [SUP]19 [/SUP]by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, [SUP]20 [/SUP]who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[SUP][f][/SUP] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
He links the removal of filth with baptism, so he's trying to say the act they were all still going through and practicing..and such....
okay....i found some of these ideas Abiding. i'm looking at them.
honestly, it has never once occurred to me - i've never heard of it til today.
i always believed baptism was commanded. i got baptized right away a decade ago.
(found out later after pastor quizzed me and i quizzed mom....we went to sunday school and god-parents had my sister and i baptized etc).
oh well...
two times fer nuthin
haha..
processing....
(i gotta decide whether to use a Z or an S i reckon too)
honestly, it has never once occurred to me - i've never heard of it til today.
i always believed baptism was commanded. i got baptized right away a decade ago.
(found out later after pastor quizzed me and i quizzed mom....we went to sunday school and god-parents had my sister and i baptized etc).
oh well...
two times fer nuthin
haha..
processing....
(i gotta decide whether to use a Z or an S i reckon too)
okay....i found some of these ideas Abiding. i'm looking at them.
honestly, it has never once occurred to me - i've never heard of it til today.
i always believed baptism was commanded. i got baptized right away a decade ago.
(found out later after pastor quizzed me and i quizzed mom....we went to sunday school and god-parents had my sister and i baptized etc).
oh well...
two times fer nuthin
haha..
processing....
(i gotta decide whether to use a Z or an S i reckon too)
honestly, it has never once occurred to me - i've never heard of it til today.
i always believed baptism was commanded. i got baptized right away a decade ago.
(found out later after pastor quizzed me and i quizzed mom....we went to sunday school and god-parents had my sister and i baptized etc).
oh well...
two times fer nuthin
haha..
processing....
(i gotta decide whether to use a Z or an S i reckon too)
i did hear that before - here. couple years ago.
fuzzy memory bank - overcrowded or summink.
must eat - must not have strawberry smoothies for supper again
1
To me this puts the kuh-bash on the whole water baptism isn't for today thing...
[h=3]Matthew 28:18-20[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore[SUP][a][/SUP] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.[SUP][b][/SUP]
He lists things that are meant for ALL nations. Those things include.
1. Making disciples.
2. Baptizing in the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. Teaching them to observe ALL things I have commanded you.
He commanded them to baptize.
They were to teach others to observe ALL things that were commanded.
If you can take water baptism out of this list of things, then what else can you take out?
[h=3]Matthew 28:18-20[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Go therefore[SUP][a][/SUP] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.[SUP][b][/SUP]
He lists things that are meant for ALL nations. Those things include.
1. Making disciples.
2. Baptizing in the name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
3. Teaching them to observe ALL things I have commanded you.
He commanded them to baptize.
They were to teach others to observe ALL things that were commanded.
If you can take water baptism out of this list of things, then what else can you take out?
A
No way the Lords supper would cease, only His coming would cause that.
But baptism in water was replaced to me although for the 3rd or forth time ill say im not against it
Mtt 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Peter down the road a bit
Acts 11:16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
But baptism in water was replaced to me although for the 3rd or forth time ill say im not against it
Mtt 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Peter down the road a bit
Acts 11:16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'