Is infant baptism biblical?
- Thread starter zone
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
k....this guys say water baptism ceased (i see some serious issues already i think - but that's just prolly me
):
"The book of Acts describes the transition from one program to another. The law program was slowly being phased out while the mystery was being introduced. This means for a while aspects of both programs were in existence. The period of Acts was written between 48 to 55AD and the following books were written during this time period: Galatians, I & II Thessalonians, I & II Corinthians, and Romans. The book of Corinthians was written about 55 AD and in I Corinthians 8-13 Paul is telling us that the sign gifts like prophecy, tongues, … shall cease, fail, and vanish. That we only know and prophesy in part. We are like a child without full understanding but some day we will have full understanding then we will put away the prophecy, tongues, and other sign gifts and become mature adults. Paul is telling us we do not have a clear picture yet or full understanding. Paul illustrates this by using an analogy of a mirror (mirror at that time were usually polished metal that distorted the image.) With them you could not get an accurate likeness of the image. But Paul then goes on to finish the analogy by saying some day we will see clearly. He emphasis this point by saying we only know in part; we do not yet have the full knowledge but some day we will have the full knowledge.
Paul received the knowledge of the mystery gradually over a period of time and when Corinthians was written Paul only knew part of God’s plan but about five years later when he penned the book of Ephesians Paul had the full knowledge of the mystery. In the following verses again you can see Paul using the Greek word epiginosko, which emphasizes a full or complete knowledge.
Ephesians 1:16-19 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
and
Colosians 1:9-10 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
What a wonderful possession this is for the body of Christ. Once it was revealed and the full knowledge of it was made known, we stopped seeing in part. Instead of seeing in a mirror darkly we are now seeing clearly. This is what makes the mystery so special because we have been blessed with the whole truth.
God has called up Paul to be an apostle to preach this good news of grace. Now that grace is being preached water baptism is no longer required for salvation. During this transition period Paul did baptize a few people but you will never find it written anywhere that he did this for the reemission of sins. Remember Paul did not get the whole truth of the new gospel all at one time. God delivered it to him in several direct revelations over a 10 to 14 year period. Once Paul had the full knowledge of the mystery, he ceased to baptize people. Later Paul even makes mention that he is thankful he did not baptize more and even an attitude of non importance regarding baptism can be seen in his writings....
Grace Points: Is Water Baptism Required for Salvation? < click
cont....
):"The book of Acts describes the transition from one program to another. The law program was slowly being phased out while the mystery was being introduced. This means for a while aspects of both programs were in existence. The period of Acts was written between 48 to 55AD and the following books were written during this time period: Galatians, I & II Thessalonians, I & II Corinthians, and Romans. The book of Corinthians was written about 55 AD and in I Corinthians 8-13 Paul is telling us that the sign gifts like prophecy, tongues, … shall cease, fail, and vanish. That we only know and prophesy in part. We are like a child without full understanding but some day we will have full understanding then we will put away the prophecy, tongues, and other sign gifts and become mature adults. Paul is telling us we do not have a clear picture yet or full understanding. Paul illustrates this by using an analogy of a mirror (mirror at that time were usually polished metal that distorted the image.) With them you could not get an accurate likeness of the image. But Paul then goes on to finish the analogy by saying some day we will see clearly. He emphasis this point by saying we only know in part; we do not yet have the full knowledge but some day we will have the full knowledge.
Paul received the knowledge of the mystery gradually over a period of time and when Corinthians was written Paul only knew part of God’s plan but about five years later when he penned the book of Ephesians Paul had the full knowledge of the mystery. In the following verses again you can see Paul using the Greek word epiginosko, which emphasizes a full or complete knowledge.
Ephesians 1:16-19 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
and
Colosians 1:9-10 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
What a wonderful possession this is for the body of Christ. Once it was revealed and the full knowledge of it was made known, we stopped seeing in part. Instead of seeing in a mirror darkly we are now seeing clearly. This is what makes the mystery so special because we have been blessed with the whole truth.
God has called up Paul to be an apostle to preach this good news of grace. Now that grace is being preached water baptism is no longer required for salvation. During this transition period Paul did baptize a few people but you will never find it written anywhere that he did this for the reemission of sins. Remember Paul did not get the whole truth of the new gospel all at one time. God delivered it to him in several direct revelations over a 10 to 14 year period. Once Paul had the full knowledge of the mystery, he ceased to baptize people. Later Paul even makes mention that he is thankful he did not baptize more and even an attitude of non importance regarding baptism can be seen in his writings....
Grace Points: Is Water Baptism Required for Salvation? < click
cont....
water baptism required for salvation today? However, before we answer that question, the first question I would like to address is: Has water baptism ever been required for salvation? The answer to this is an obvious Yes. It is written in many places in the scriptures. Peter in Acts 2:38 after telling them that the
"Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ" calls them to "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
and in
Acts 13:24 Scripture explians that John the Baptist had been preaching baptism for the remission of sins to the Israelites. It was clearly taught that baptism resulted in the remission of sins. Mark 1:4, Mark 16:15-18. A man could not be saved without being baptized; before receiving salvation you must be baptized
It appears the author is using Mark1:4 to say John's Baptism was required for the remission of sins, and to receive salvation(along with Matk16:15-18)
Well if he is linking mark1:4 to both of these:
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
Mark2:5
No water Baptism before the mans sins are forgiven
But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, “Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount.” [SUP]9 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham
luke19:7-9
Salvation without firstly having been baptised in water
If he got that wrong in comnnection with Mark 1:4 I wonfer if he may also have got it wrong in connection with
Mark16:15-18
If a person must receive water baptism to be saved, then an unsaved person who has not had their sins forgiven can receive the Holy Spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and speak in tongues(Cornelius)
Last edited:
N
I was taught that Jesus was baptised when he was a young man so we follow his example. We are all born sinners, however infants are innocent of sin. When we we are old enough to acknowledge our sin, repent and recieve the Lord , we are then baptized. It seals our commitment to The Lord's death and resurrection. Infants can't do that. 1 Peter 3:21-22
i'm not talking about baptismal regeneration or any of that.
not saying IS WATER REQUIRED FOR SALVATION.
it's all more than that i think. i'm not going there.
i'm trying to find out if water baptism is New Covenant ordinance - and if it is to be for the entire family.
at least that's what i had in me mind awhile back..hehehe
other ppl can debate that other thing.
my Church teaches do not despise baptism, and if anyone appears to take it lightly, or ignore it, we ought to wonder what they really believe.
they do not teach someone who isn't baptized doesn't get to heaven.
we say we don't know.
my son is asking to be baptized...he wants me to baptize him. i asked my pastor and he said it's better to enter the Church (New Covenant Body), make the commitment. but not to pressure him about that if it would turn him off at this time.
pastor showed me the service for Baptism in the Back of the Lutheran Service Book whereby any christian can baptize another in a situation where the person is asking to be baptized but not yet understanding the fullness of the lifetime Covenant.
pastor said based on my testimony of my son's profession(s) about who Jesus is and how he came to believe, the changes in him - pastor would treat him as a Covenant member based on my membership and witness and should anything happen to my son before he joins our church (if he does), pastor would give him a Christian burial, and/or would administer Communion to him.
it all makes perfect sense to me.
i love my church.
my pizza is here
not saying IS WATER REQUIRED FOR SALVATION.
it's all more than that i think. i'm not going there.
i'm trying to find out if water baptism is New Covenant ordinance - and if it is to be for the entire family.
at least that's what i had in me mind awhile back..hehehe
other ppl can debate that other thing.
my Church teaches do not despise baptism, and if anyone appears to take it lightly, or ignore it, we ought to wonder what they really believe.
they do not teach someone who isn't baptized doesn't get to heaven.
we say we don't know.
my son is asking to be baptized...he wants me to baptize him. i asked my pastor and he said it's better to enter the Church (New Covenant Body), make the commitment. but not to pressure him about that if it would turn him off at this time.
pastor showed me the service for Baptism in the Back of the Lutheran Service Book whereby any christian can baptize another in a situation where the person is asking to be baptized but not yet understanding the fullness of the lifetime Covenant.
pastor said based on my testimony of my son's profession(s) about who Jesus is and how he came to believe, the changes in him - pastor would treat him as a Covenant member based on my membership and witness and should anything happen to my son before he joins our church (if he does), pastor would give him a Christian burial, and/or would administer Communion to him.
it all makes perfect sense to me.
i love my church.
my pizza is here
Last edited:
E
i'm not talking about baptismal regeneration or any of that.
not saying IS WATER REQUIRED FOR SALVATION.
it's all more than that i think. i'm not going there.
i'm trying to find out if water baptism is New Covenant ordinance - and if it is to be for the entire family.
at least that's what i had in me mind awhile back..hehehe
other ppl can debate that other thing.
my Church teaches do not despise baptism, and if anyone appears to take it lightly, or ignore it, we ought to wonder what they really believe.
they do not teach someone who isn't baptized doesn't get to heaven.
we say we don't know.
my son is asking to be baptized...he wants me to baptize him. i asked my pastor and he said it's better to enter the Church (new Covenant_, make the commitment. but not to pressure him about that if it would turn him off at this time.
pastor showed me the service for Baptism in the Back of the Lutheran Service Book whereby any christian can baptize another in a situation where the person is asking to be baptized but not yet understanding the fullness of the lifetime Covenant.
pastor said based on my testimony of my son's profession(s) about who Jesus is and how he came to believe, the changes in him - pastor would treat him as a Covenant member based on my membership and witness and should anything happen to my son before he joins our church (if he does), pastor would give him a Christian burial, and/or would administer Communion to him.
it all makes perfect sense to me.
i love my church.
my pizza is here
not saying IS WATER REQUIRED FOR SALVATION.
it's all more than that i think. i'm not going there.
i'm trying to find out if water baptism is New Covenant ordinance - and if it is to be for the entire family.
at least that's what i had in me mind awhile back..hehehe
other ppl can debate that other thing.
my Church teaches do not despise baptism, and if anyone appears to take it lightly, or ignore it, we ought to wonder what they really believe.
they do not teach someone who isn't baptized doesn't get to heaven.
we say we don't know.
my son is asking to be baptized...he wants me to baptize him. i asked my pastor and he said it's better to enter the Church (new Covenant_, make the commitment. but not to pressure him about that if it would turn him off at this time.
pastor showed me the service for Baptism in the Back of the Lutheran Service Book whereby any christian can baptize another in a situation where the person is asking to be baptized but not yet understanding the fullness of the lifetime Covenant.
pastor said based on my testimony of my son's profession(s) about who Jesus is and how he came to believe, the changes in him - pastor would treat him as a Covenant member based on my membership and witness and should anything happen to my son before he joins our church (if he does), pastor would give him a Christian burial, and/or would administer Communion to him.
it all makes perfect sense to me.
i love my church.
my pizza is here
I can agree
Hope ya enjoy your pizza
wuv ya sis!
A
i'm not talking about baptismal regeneration or any of that.
not saying IS WATER REQUIRED FOR SALVATION.
it's all more than that i think. i'm not going there.
i'm trying to find out if water baptism is New Covenant ordinance - and if it is to be for the entire family.
at least that's what i had in me mind awhile back..hehehe
other ppl can debate that other thing.
my Church teaches do not despise baptism, and if anyone appears to take it lightly, or ignore it, we ought to wonder what they really believe.
they do not teach someone who isn't baptized doesn't get to heaven.
we say we don't know.
my son is asking to be baptized...he wants me to baptize him. i asked my pastor and he said it's better to enter the Church (new Covenant_, make the commitment. but not to pressure him about that if it would turn him off at this time.
pastor showed me the service for Baptism in the Back of the Lutheran Service Book whereby any christian can baptize another in a situation where the person is asking to be baptized but not yet understanding the fullness of the lifetime Covenant.
pastor said based on my testimony of my son's profession(s) about who Jesus is and how he came to believe, the changes in him - pastor would treat him as a Covenant member based on my membership and witness and should anything happen to my son before he joins our church (if he does), pastor would give him a Christian burial, and/or would administer Communion to him.
it all makes perfect sense to me.
i love my church.
my pizza is here
not saying IS WATER REQUIRED FOR SALVATION.
it's all more than that i think. i'm not going there.
i'm trying to find out if water baptism is New Covenant ordinance - and if it is to be for the entire family.
at least that's what i had in me mind awhile back..hehehe
other ppl can debate that other thing.
my Church teaches do not despise baptism, and if anyone appears to take it lightly, or ignore it, we ought to wonder what they really believe.
they do not teach someone who isn't baptized doesn't get to heaven.
we say we don't know.
my son is asking to be baptized...he wants me to baptize him. i asked my pastor and he said it's better to enter the Church (new Covenant_, make the commitment. but not to pressure him about that if it would turn him off at this time.
pastor showed me the service for Baptism in the Back of the Lutheran Service Book whereby any christian can baptize another in a situation where the person is asking to be baptized but not yet understanding the fullness of the lifetime Covenant.
pastor said based on my testimony of my son's profession(s) about who Jesus is and how he came to believe, the changes in him - pastor would treat him as a Covenant member based on my membership and witness and should anything happen to my son before he joins our church (if he does), pastor would give him a Christian burial, and/or would administer Communion to him.
it all makes perfect sense to me.
i love my church.
my pizza is here
like that but theres that verse where the ethiopian asks if he can be baptized with water(i thinks
) and Philip said "thou mayest"
1
if only the word water was in those verses....what do you have left? the Holy Spirit?
We know it is Jesus who does the spiritual act of baptizing in the Holy Spirit.
So Jesus clearly isn't telling them to perform an act only he can do (Baptizing spiritually with the Holy Spirit.)
No he's telling them to do an act that they actually do/did.
No, no, it doesn't say water in there.
But I'm pretty sure they knew he was speaking of the act of water baptism, seeing that's the only kind of act they actually did as his disciples that had the title baptism tied to it.
I really don't think it's necessary for the word WATER to be in the Matthew 28 verses in order to understand that water was indeed involved. What other actual act of baptism did the disciples do that didn't involve water? Only Jesus can baptize with the Spirit, so you can't say it was that. It was clearly water baptism.
1
He's saying to them that John baptized with water, but that in a few days the day of pentecost would come and they'd receive power. He was showing that what John the Baptist predicted was about to happen.
Jesus is telling them they're about to experience the fulfillment of what the Prophet John the Baptist said.
This doesn't somehow wipe out the command to baptize in water as told in Matthew 28.
These things aren't mutually exclusive.
He's just showing that Jesus was being faithful, and doing the act that ONLY Jesus can do. He was filling them with the Spirit. This doesn't cancel out Matthew 28.
I don't really see the importance of this never being done before.
It's a new charge that goes along with preaching the gospel.
All these things aren't mutually exclusive.
Jesus does an act of baptizing people with his spirit.
His disciples do an act of baptizing in water, in the name of Father, Son, and Spirit.
Jesus is telling them they're about to experience the fulfillment of what the Prophet John the Baptist said.
This doesn't somehow wipe out the command to baptize in water as told in Matthew 28.
These things aren't mutually exclusive.
He's just showing that Jesus was being faithful, and doing the act that ONLY Jesus can do. He was filling them with the Spirit. This doesn't cancel out Matthew 28.
I don't really see the importance of this never being done before.
It's a new charge that goes along with preaching the gospel.
All these things aren't mutually exclusive.
Jesus does an act of baptizing people with his spirit.
His disciples do an act of baptizing in water, in the name of Father, Son, and Spirit.
D
why would circumcision have anything to do with baptism? G-d gave a direct commandment to circumcise...including when, where and why. It was a sign...a connection with the rest of the Hebrew community. If an uncircumcised infant died before circumcision it didn't go to hell to burn eternally....which is why the catholic church baptized infants. I believe infant dedication and sprinkling...as a presentation to G-d....but if you for one min. think that any child will burn eternally in hell....well...I could almost believe YOU would go to hell eternally...but I don't believe in an eternal hell...so, ...
is water baptism no longer part of the Gospel?
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
hmmm.....no, i think it is still.
Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
Romans 6:3
Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
hmmm.....no, i think it is still.
Let us look at the BPTISM mentioned here.... Jesus says... Go make disciples... (how do you make disciples? You teach them THE WORD OF GOD)... baptizing them in THE NAME (not ONE NAME for ALL THREE) Well what is the Name of the Father (YHVH) the Son (Yeshuah Ha Messiah) and the Holy Spirit (Wonder how many people knows His Name) (I have is as Christ Jesus) ...
Now what is this Baptism in THE NAME.... In Revelation there is a verse that says..... (And HE (Father YHVH) was dressed in a VESTURE (The Holy Spirit, Chrsit JEsus) dipped in blood (Yeshuah Ha Messiah) and His name was: THE WORD OF GOD!
Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS whatsoever I have commanded you.... (How do we teach people to observe all things Jesus commanded.... Teach them THE WORD OF GOD!
What is the PNE baptism in EPHESIANS 4. The baptism Jesus talks about, the making disciples, the teaching them to obseve.... IT IS ALL.... TEACH THEM THE WORD OF GOD!!!!! That is what I do here EVERYDAY. That is what I do EVERYDAY with myself, and my family ,and EVERY person I meet. Any problem ANY person has I use the Bible to give advise... EVERYDAY, ALL day, ALL the time, to EVERYBODY, EVEN MYSELF.. That is what my life looks like.