What does "limited atonement" mean?
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For whom it may concern. The stories in the Old testament i dont think are just filler.
Ive studied them for years and am amazed how much is hidden in plain site.
Wells for instance both in their names and what happened at them can only be briefed
in a post. For instance Rebekah, Jacob, and Jesus at same well in samaria. All over a Bride.
Its hard to not go on in all it reveals.So ill throw out a couple.
Abraham a type of the Father
Isaac a typeof the Son
And the Servant unnamed Is a type of the Holyspirit in gen 24 but we know his name was Eliezer which means= aid, helper and goes unnamed.
Servant sent to find a bride asks:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the servant said to him(Abraham), “Perhaps the woman will not be willing to follow me to this land. Must I take your son back to the land from which you came?”
He is told:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And if the woman is not willing to follow you, then you will be released from this oath; only do not take my son back there.”
Ok then willingess is a requirement pretty clear there. In fact the only requirement. We dont need more but are given even more.
The family wants to make sure Rebekah is willing and made a choice
[SUP]57 [/SUP]So they said, “We will call the young woman and ask her personally.” [SUP]58 [/SUP]Then they called Rebekah and said to her, “Will you go with this man?”
And she said, “I will go.”
Ill skip the pearls with Jacob and just briefly Say Jesus sent from God went to Jacobs well
and said the same thing pretty much...give me to drink...then later told the samaritan woman
if you asked, id give you living water.
One will see the fact the Father wanted His sons bride to be willing..we could go on about the dowry
and dozens of other truths, and a limited atonement person would merely say well of coarse just
take the willing that just proves they were elect, haha what can a guy do?
some horses just
aint thirsty
Ive studied them for years and am amazed how much is hidden in plain site.
Wells for instance both in their names and what happened at them can only be briefed
in a post. For instance Rebekah, Jacob, and Jesus at same well in samaria. All over a Bride.
Its hard to not go on in all it reveals.So ill throw out a couple.
Abraham a type of the Father
Isaac a typeof the Son
And the Servant unnamed Is a type of the Holyspirit in gen 24 but we know his name was Eliezer which means= aid, helper and goes unnamed.
Servant sent to find a bride asks:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the servant said to him(Abraham), “Perhaps the woman will not be willing to follow me to this land. Must I take your son back to the land from which you came?”
He is told:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And if the woman is not willing to follow you, then you will be released from this oath; only do not take my son back there.”
Ok then willingess is a requirement pretty clear there. In fact the only requirement. We dont need more but are given even more.
The family wants to make sure Rebekah is willing and made a choice
[SUP]57 [/SUP]So they said, “We will call the young woman and ask her personally.” [SUP]58 [/SUP]Then they called Rebekah and said to her, “Will you go with this man?”
And she said, “I will go.”
Ill skip the pearls with Jacob and just briefly Say Jesus sent from God went to Jacobs well
and said the same thing pretty much...give me to drink...then later told the samaritan woman
if you asked, id give you living water.
One will see the fact the Father wanted His sons bride to be willing..we could go on about the dowry
and dozens of other truths, and a limited atonement person would merely say well of coarse just
take the willing that just proves they were elect, haha what can a guy do?
some horses justaint thirsty
"Ill skip the pearls with Jacob and just briefly Say Jesus sent from God went to Jacobs well and said the same thing pretty much...give me to drink...then later told the samaritan woman if you asked, id give you living water."
not excatly though, Abiding (not sure if it matters). He said :
Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”
"The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet."
"The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”
"Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he"
~
so....He had to tell her Who He was.
she was already familiar with Messiah.
it might make a difference. not sure
not excatly though, Abiding (not sure if it matters). He said :
Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”
"The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet."
"The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”
"Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he"
~
so....He had to tell her Who He was.
she was already familiar with Messiah.
it might make a difference. not sure
R
limited atonement is obvious false doctrine...calvinism starts out correctly with total depravity and unconditional election...but goes completely off the rails at limited atonement...
in my opinion the source of the errors in calvinism is a misunderstanding of the 'call' phase of the salvation process...
in my opinion the source of the errors in calvinism is a misunderstanding of the 'call' phase of the salvation process...
A
"Ill skip the pearls with Jacob and just briefly Say Jesus sent from God went to Jacobs well and said the same thing pretty much...give me to drink...then later told the samaritan woman if you asked, id give you living water."
not excatly though, Abiding (not sure if it matters). He said :
Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”
"The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet."
"The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”
"Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he"
~
so....He had to tell her Who He was.
she was already familiar with Messiah.
it might make a difference. not sure
not excatly though, Abiding (not sure if it matters). He said :
Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.”
"The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet."
"The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”
"Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he"
~
so....He had to tell her Who He was.
she was already familiar with Messiah.
it might make a difference. not sure
But it is a good major point zone for what your pointing out.
T
The entire sun is necessary to grow one plant on earth, so every potential plant on earth has access to the whole sun. In the same way, the atonement, which was made with special reference to the elect, has sufficient potency to forgive all sin in the world. In JOhn 3:16 God so loved...not just the elect. He is not willing that any should perish - He takes no pleasure in the non-elect as He does take pleasure in the elect. And God knew the end from the beginning - He could have created things differently. But He chose to create things as they are - and He is able to bear moral responsibility for that choice.
Jesus was assigned a task by the Father - redemption of the elect. And that is what He accomplished - no more, no less. People were "given him" before he went to the cross (from eternity) because He would go to the cross. He lost not one of them - indicates He is talking about individuals, not a class of people. What He did for the elect was sufficient for everyone - that is love for the world!
The offer of salvation to the non-elect is according to God's plan, as is their rejection of the offer. Much sunlight goes into space without benefitting plants on earth - we ought not to infer from that that God made the sun too big in vain. Just as a smaller sun would not suffice, neither would a smaller atonement. Each plant needs the whole sun. And each one of us needs the whole atonement.
Jesus was assigned a task by the Father - redemption of the elect. And that is what He accomplished - no more, no less. People were "given him" before he went to the cross (from eternity) because He would go to the cross. He lost not one of them - indicates He is talking about individuals, not a class of people. What He did for the elect was sufficient for everyone - that is love for the world!
The offer of salvation to the non-elect is according to God's plan, as is their rejection of the offer. Much sunlight goes into space without benefitting plants on earth - we ought not to infer from that that God made the sun too big in vain. Just as a smaller sun would not suffice, neither would a smaller atonement. Each plant needs the whole sun. And each one of us needs the whole atonement.
T
This is a new take on limited atonement. Critiques invited:
We share in each other's sin. God had to clean the WHOLE MESS or none of it.
Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
We are not to tolerate sin. We are certainly to call a spade a spade. In what sense is the man that "judges" guilty of the same sin?
Remember Satanic accusation of sin is the opposite of the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin. One is as public as possible to bring guilt, shame and death. The other is as private as possible to bring repentance and life. When we are involved in accusation, instead of conviction, we become guilty of the SAME SIN.
Iluustration: My one year old poops on the floor. My two year old takes the poo in her hand and spreads it around the room. When we see this, we hold both accountable for the poo - ESPECIALLY the two year old. But she did not produce the poo, she just spread it around. And in doing so, she became guilty of the poo.
God needed to clean up ALL SIN for EACH ONE of us. We, each one of us are entangled in the whole mess. That is why the atonement HAD TO BE sufficient for everyone - or it would be sufficient for no one.
Since this is an original illustration (and the sun illustration is not) I include it separated for special critique.
We share in each other's sin. God had to clean the WHOLE MESS or none of it.
Rom 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
We are not to tolerate sin. We are certainly to call a spade a spade. In what sense is the man that "judges" guilty of the same sin?
Remember Satanic accusation of sin is the opposite of the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin. One is as public as possible to bring guilt, shame and death. The other is as private as possible to bring repentance and life. When we are involved in accusation, instead of conviction, we become guilty of the SAME SIN.
Iluustration: My one year old poops on the floor. My two year old takes the poo in her hand and spreads it around the room. When we see this, we hold both accountable for the poo - ESPECIALLY the two year old. But she did not produce the poo, she just spread it around. And in doing so, she became guilty of the poo.
God needed to clean up ALL SIN for EACH ONE of us. We, each one of us are entangled in the whole mess. That is why the atonement HAD TO BE sufficient for everyone - or it would be sufficient for no one.
Since this is an original illustration (and the sun illustration is not) I include it separated for special critique.
T
God planned everything. He is not just passing through time, as we are, picking up information as things occur. As He produces each cause, He experiences the full effect. "I AM" is present at the beginning and at the end in one instant. Nothing surprises Him. He is not surprised by the rejection of salvation. He sees the end from the beginning. Everything that happens is His plan. There are no unplanned events. When He created the world, He experienced what would happen. The unrestricted offer of the atonement is what shows His love for the world. He paid the price for everyone's mess. That some people, whom we have loved, go to hell is a terrible reality. Armenians have not produced a theology that minimizes that terror in any way. Heretics, such as the emergent church, have produced such a theology.
