Must Shortly Come To Pass

[peacefulbeliever]

the first resurrection is only mentioned once.
in all of scripture.
guess where?

Rev. 20:5

what does it mean by first?
that means there is a second.
what you call a "literal" one.

millennialism has two also (at least).

what if the first resurrection is that spiritual resurrection you just said you knew you had taken part in?

I'm just trying to understand this point of view.

What if. . . .the first resurrection is that spiritual resurrection? . . .we would be reigning with Christ for a thousand years and in that thousand years Satan would be locked in the bottomless pit. . .

Are you saying that the "resurrection is past already"?

Does this mean anything? 2 Tim. 2:16-18 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker of whom is Hymenaetus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

I am honestly trying to understand what is being said. . . .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I just have a question to this: The first resurrection was dying in sin, and coming alive in Christ

Is the "dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, bound" locked up in the bottomless pit NOW?

Are the ones that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; living and reigning with Christ a thousand years. . . .This is NOW?

Is this is the first resurrection? or is the first resurrection after the thousand years are finished?. . .

I see that I have asked more than one question. . . .Please bear with me!

The answer is easy.

Is Satan decieving the nations?? (ever heard of Hitler, Stalin, Communist China, And the fanatical islamists who are terrorising the world?

Looks like satan still controls most the world.

The first ressurection is not our spiritual ressurection. But literal ressurection. There are MANY ideas as to who this will be,, based on the completelness of scripture, not just one passage.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Matthew 27:52-53 [SUP]52 [/SUP]And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [SUP]53 [/SUP]And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

You seem to have made a point that no one could be resurrected to do anything before their judgment. I was just pointing out that it happened several times in Scripture.

Back to what I was saying. The saints did rise and went to Jerusalem. The passage doesn't say they ascended to Heaven.
Any other time someone was raised from the dead(like Lazarus) they weren't ascended to heaven. Little has been said about the saints. All we know from scripture is they rose from their graves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Rev. 20:5


I'm just trying to understand this point of view.

What if. . . .the first resurrection is that spiritual resurrection? . . .we would be reigning with Christ for a thousand years and in that thousand years Satan would be locked in the bottomless pit. . .

Are you saying that the "resurrection is past already"?

Does this mean anything? 2 Tim. 2:16-18 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker of whom is Hymenaetus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

I am honestly trying to understand what is being said. . . .

Excellent passage, people were afraid they missed the first resurrection. Thus they missed out and were left behind.. Yes it was even fought in those days.. Amazing after 2000 years we are still having the same arguments.

 

[mark54]

Jesus said:
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.’
John6:40

When is the last day?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Back to what I was saying. The saints did rise and went to Jerusalem. The passage doesn't say they ascended to Heaven.
Any other time someone was raised from the dead(like Lazarus) they weren't ascended to heaven. Little has been said about the saints. All we know from scripture is they rose from their graves.

Imagine being those people and having to die physically again?? I wonder if they saw heaven while they were dead, or if they just slept and God spared them that horror of seeing heaven, then having to return to physical bodies.. I cringe at the thought!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus said:
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.’
John6:40

When is the last day?

matt 24
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

might it have something to do with this?

 

[mark54]

matt 24
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

might it have something to do with this?

I am sure it would EG

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Excellent passage, people were afraid they missed the first resurrection. Thus they missed out and were left behind.. Yes it was even fought in those days.. Amazing after 2000 years we are still having the same arguments. [/QUOTE
I really don't believe we are "arguing" but rather "discussing". . . at this point anyway! I will come back later after I get to work. . .I work shift work and I work from 5pm to 5am tonight. I need to get ready. . .

Thanks for your post.

 

[zone]

Rev. 20:5

I'm just trying to understand this point of view.

okay.
i believe you when you say you really are trying to understand this point of view....so i'll spend time on it.
sometimes it seems like ppl are, but they aren't. i wasted a lot of time discussing it to find out later they never intended to understand it.

h'obviously you don't have to accept it...but understanding it is a good thing.

What if. . . .the first resurrection is that spiritual resurrection? . . .we would be reigning with Christ for a thousand years and in that thousand years Satan would be locked in the bottomless pit. . .

the reigning for a thousand years reference is also only ever mentioned in one place.
guess where? same place.

the thousand years mentioned there is a symbolic number. (more on this next - please be kind enough to tell me you reject what i already posted if you do, since i don't want to waste our time - yours or mine)
just as the pit and chain and dragon are symbolic.
they represent something literally done. but it is figurative language.

.................

satan is restrained from doing just one thing during the Messianic Age (Time of Salvation before the end) - rallying the peoples of the world against the Lord and Christians.

that's all it says. it doesn't mean he's bound and gagged and can't do anything else at all.

here is Jesus saying He bound satan (from preventing the spread of the Gospel, extinguishing the church or destroying the church, or from rallying an all out assault):


Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


Jesus not only said the Kingdom of God had come, He said He bound up (defeated and disarmed) the strong man satan, and Jesus was now plundering his (satan's) house.

Are you saying that the "resurrection is past already"?

Does this mean anything? 2 Tim. 2:16-18 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker of whom is Hymenaetus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

was that necessary? really?

does this actually say:

Are you saying that the "resurrection is past already"?

Does this mean anything? 2 Tim. 2:16-18 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker of whom is Hymenaetus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that [the FIRST] resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

no it doesn't.
you asked about the FIRST resurrection.

how many resurrections are there according to you?

do you want to continue?
please inform me if you're not really interested.
i'm not interested in all the work for nothing///if you are, i'm happy to continue.
but i will just say so long if this is going to turn into an Amillennialism hatefest.

thank you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Excellent passage, people were afraid they missed the first resurrection. Thus they missed out and were left behind.. Yes it was even fought in those days.. Amazing after 2000 years we are still having the same arguments. [/QUOTE
I really don't believe we are "arguing" but rather "discussing". . . at this point anyway! I will come back later after I get to work. . .I work shift work and I work from 5pm to 5am tonight. I need to get ready. . .

Thanks for your post.

I did not mean argument in the way most people mean it. Yes I hope we are discussing.

Don;t work to hard, and may your night be blessed!

 

[zone]

okay peacefulbeliever.
ttyl....again, please be straightforward with me on this.
that i admire....forthrightness.

none of us wishes to waste our time.
have a good shift,
God Bless.

 

[GRA]

unless Paul and the others literally died and came back to life, and returned to earth just to write this letter, the first resurrection is now.

Ephesians 2:6
For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.

zone:

Whatever bible version you got this from - is corrupt...

From the KJV:

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: ~ Ephesians 2:6

This verse is not talking about the 'first resurrection'.

It is speaking strictly in spiritual terms - not physical.

Please take a closer look at the context of the passage.

( "And, preferably, reading from the KJV..." )

 

[zone]

zone:

Whatever bible version you got this from - is corrupt...

From the KJV:

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: ~ Ephesians 2:6

This verse is not talking about the 'first resurrection'.

It is speaking strictly in spiritual terms - not physical.

Please take a closer look at the context of the passage.

( "And, preferably, reading from the KJV..." )

GRA

"This verse is not talking about the 'first resurrection'.

It is speaking strictly in spiritual terms - not physical."

is it speaking of a spiritual raising up? YES I KNOW. thats what i said.

i never, not one time, ever, at any time, claimed the first resurrection was anything but the spiritual raising, from death to life.

the resurrection is the resurrection of all before the Judgment Throne (though believers are not judged). - The Last Day.

i'll take a little time on it.
but i'm not arguing this GRA

wasted far too many keystrokes already on ppl who have no intention of understanding what Amil is.

but i don't think you're that way

i know the KJV.
makes no difference. they all say the same thing.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

okay.
i believe you when you say you really are trying to understand this point of view....so i'll spend time on it.
sometimes it seems like ppl are, but they aren't. i wasted a lot of time discussing it to find out later they never intended to understand it.

h'obviously you don't have to accept it...but understanding it is a good thing.

the reigning for a thousand years reference is also only ever mentioned in one place.
guess where? same place.

the thousand years mentioned there is a symbolic number. (more on this next - please be kind enough to tell me you reject what i already posted if you do, since i don't want to waste our time - yours or mine)

Okay I can deal with reigning for a thousand years as symbolic but I'm not sure. . .

just as the pit and chain and dragon are symbolic.
they represent something literally done. but it is figurative language.

.................

satan is restrained from doing just one thing during the Messianic Age (Time of Salvation before the end) - rallying the peoples of the world against the Lord and Christians.

that's all it says. it doesn't mean he's bound and gagged and can't do anything else at all.

here is Jesus saying He bound satan (from preventing the spread of the Gospel, extinguishing the church or destroying the church, or from rallying an all out assault):


Matthew 12
Blasphemy Against the Holy Spirit
22Then a demon-oppressed man who was blind and mute was brought to him, and he healed him, so that the man spoke and saw. 23And all the people were amazed, and said, “Can this be the Son of David?” 24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this man casts out demons.” 25Knowing their thoughts, he said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand. 26And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand? 27And if I cast out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 28But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. 29Or how can someone enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house. 30Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven people, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.


Jesus not only said the Kingdom of God had come, He said He bound up (defeated and disarmed) the strong man satan, and Jesus was now plundering his (satan's) house.

Okay the "Messianic Age". . .is that when Christ walked the earth? or when is that exactly? So you believe that Satan is now bound up? Why then are we told to not be ignorant of his wiles (methods) and that he walks about seeking whom he may devour?

was that necessary? really?

No.

does this actually say:

no it doesn't.
you asked about the FIRST resurrection.

how many resurrections are there according to you?

Here is what I believe: 1) Christ's coming for his saints, (his body, the church) 2) the events of Revelation with Christ's coming with his saints, 3) the first and second resurrections (the just and the unjust) and finally the end (telos) when death is destroyed and all things are subdued to God.

do you want to continue?

please inform me if you're not really interested.
i'm not interested in all the work for nothing///if you are, i'm happy to continue.
but i will just say so long if this is going to turn into an Amillennialism hatefest.

thank you

What is "Amillennialism"?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Imagine being those people and having to die physically again?? I wonder if they saw heaven while they were dead, or if they just slept and God spared them that horror of seeing heaven, then having to return to physical bodies.. I cringe at the thought!!

I wish there was more info about them. We don't know if they lived many more years or what. All we have is assumption.

 

[Bookends]

Do you believe in the second coming of Christ is still yet future TomL?

 

[Bookends]

Revelation was written between 90-100 AD

I think the earlier date has way more internal and external evidence than a late date...

 

[Elizabeth619]

Okay I can deal with reigning for a thousand years as symbolic but I'm not sure. . .
[/COLOR][/COLOR]
Okay the "Messianic Age". . .is that when Christ walked the earth? or when is that exactly? So you believe that Satan is now bound up? Why then are we told to not be ignorant of his wiles (methods) and that he walks about seeking whom he may devour?

No.

Here is what I believe: 1) Christ's coming for his saints, (his body, the church) 2) the events of Revelation with Christ's coming with his saints, 3) the first and second resurrections (the just and the unjust) and finally the end (telos) when death is destroyed and all things are subdued to God.

What is "Amillennialism"?

Amillenialism is the belief that the 1000 year reign is now, and the 1000 years is not literal.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Amillenialism is the belief that the 1000 year reign is now, and the 1000 years is not literal.

Thanks, Elizabeth