Sovereignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
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Re: Sover"eignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
Non-responsive.
Okay, I'm just gonna' lay it out there. . .sermon time:
Do I detect a polluted fountain of self-pity from which some are drinking?
There is way too much grudging, bitterness, blaming and shaming going on over long-past grievances.
I don't see the same standard being applied to the past grievances committed by the aggrieved,
as I do to the past grievances committed to the aggrieved.
That kind of self-focus, self-pity, grudging, bitterness and blaming have the same root--the disobedience of unforgiveness.
That's why Christians are commanded to forgive 70 X 7 times, to weed out the roots of ungodliness.
It's way past time to give up this self-focus, self-pity, grudge, bitterness and blaming over long-past grievances.
It's way past time to stop trying to guilt those of today for events of the past.
It's way past time to give up the attitude of entitlement to special status because of the past.
None of that is Christian.
It's way past time to let go of this wrong-headed cultural thinking, and come into NT thinking.
And frankly, that script is really gettin' old.
Non-responsive.
Okay, I'm just gonna' lay it out there. . .sermon time:
Do I detect a polluted fountain of self-pity from which some are drinking?
There is way too much grudging, bitterness, blaming and shaming going on over long-past grievances.
I don't see the same standard being applied to the past grievances committed by the aggrieved,
as I do to the past grievances committed to the aggrieved.
That kind of self-focus, self-pity, grudging, bitterness and blaming have the same root--the disobedience of unforgiveness.
That's why Christians are commanded to forgive 70 X 7 times, to weed out the roots of ungodliness.
It's way past time to give up this self-focus, self-pity, grudge, bitterness and blaming over long-past grievances.
It's way past time to stop trying to guilt those of today for events of the past.
It's way past time to give up the attitude of entitlement to special status because of the past.
None of that is Christian.
It's way past time to let go of this wrong-headed cultural thinking, and come into NT thinking.
And frankly, that script is really gettin' old.
E
Re: Sover"eignty of God and Moral Responsibility of Man
yes. i wish people would do this.. and we would get to the word.. of course, i know this is directed at me.. i am not stupid.
if we look at the facts. and people who really know me. I have tried to do this. and I also think you need to look inward.
yes. i wish people would do this.. and we would get to the word.. of course, i know this is directed at me.. i am not stupid.
if we look at the facts. and people who really know me. I have tried to do this. and I also think you need to look inward.
A
He not only allows it He uses it. That why Pharaoh was used. It doesnt just say He hardened his heart.
It records Pharaoh hardened his own heart. He was raised up for that purpose. Just like Israel.
You get a different story and outcome depending on your hermeneutics. To seek the bible for answers
is not wrong. To glean answers by cherrypicking out of unrelated passages is not cool.
It records Pharaoh hardened his own heart. He was raised up for that purpose. Just like Israel.
You get a different story and outcome depending on your hermeneutics. To seek the bible for answers
is not wrong. To glean answers by cherrypicking out of unrelated passages is not cool.
G
TR
hese ^^^^are pretty harsh claim's against your prescribed doctrine, nile.
Do you know that a nurse giving a dose of medicine can be only a bit off of the "millimeters" dosage prescribed for the patient, and, thus, kill the patient?
What I thought about Hitler (you brought him up to eg, sister, I'm just going with it
) most interesting was his ability to use propaganda so closely related to what others nearly believed that it swayed their chosen opinion from on one side ofvthe fence standing with hands on the barbed wire, wondering about that 'grass' on the other side that, once they heard the prop., they were convinced that pain to themselves--and eventually others--was 100% the right way things should go and they bore pain to get to the other side.
The result was collective herd mentality, that became so strong in its wrong belief that is caused one man to do atrocities to other man and men, women, and, children.
The idea of God's sovereign power being unlimited is only true in the sense that He chooses to limit how much 'propaganda' can man go on doing before putting His hand down, the flood is one simple example as Scripture says in Gen. 6 that God was 'grieved,' this shows a personality trait of God. It is true , that we can know God's mind (what He is going to do, I mean, because, by Scripture we CAN see what He is thinking, or, wait, doesn't Isaiah 55 58? state , "God's ways are higher than our ways and
" Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, 11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."
Seek the Lord, nile, otherwise your doctrine could be the 'death' of you.
Abidersquirrelhouse mentioned to verses that speak, freely, too, of man's NEED (not desire, or, does Paul or Tim. or, Jude, et al, any them folk say they 'desire to follow God.' ??
" In all the ways acknowledge (respect? , seek? ) and He shall direct thy paths." Prov. 3: 5,6
People too get this crazy, sickening idea that just because God gave us CAUSE or reason to believe in Him by sending HiscSon to die for usvthis was divine intervention to change man's free will. Nothing could be further from the truth, if anything, and, for us, Christ's death on the frossvshould mean EVERYTHING to you, in a grace given , that saved us through faith, but, the cross should only have strengthened your understanding of God's measure of faith given man, starting with Adam and Eve
Freewill determinism is something God gave man, but with the understanding that He too 'sheweth mercy to whom He sheweth mercy,' as doesn't Scripture say.
Thi$ second abidering verse is rich, I want to flesh it out to the fullest context of its truth said in its 'pages.'
Jerusalem
Jerusalem and Region
Jerusalem aerial from east
<< Proverbs 16 >> King James Bible
The Tongue's Answer is from the Lord
1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.
4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.
8 Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.
9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
Do you know that a nurse giving a dose of medicine can be only a bit off of the "millimeters" dosage prescribed for the patient, and, thus, kill the patient?
What I thought about Hitler (you brought him up to eg, sister, I'm just going with it
) most interesting was his ability to use propaganda so closely related to what others nearly believed that it swayed their chosen opinion from on one side ofvthe fence standing with hands on the barbed wire, wondering about that 'grass' on the other side that, once they heard the prop., they were convinced that pain to themselves--and eventually others--was 100% the right way things should go and they bore pain to get to the other side.The result was collective herd mentality, that became so strong in its wrong belief that is caused one man to do atrocities to other man and men, women, and, children.
The idea of God's sovereign power being unlimited is only true in the sense that He chooses to limit how much 'propaganda' can man go on doing before putting His hand down, the flood is one simple example as Scripture says in Gen. 6 that God was 'grieved,' this shows a personality trait of God. It is true , that we can know God's mind (what He is going to do, I mean, because, by Scripture we CAN see what He is thinking, or, wait, doesn't Isaiah 55 58? state , "God's ways are higher than our ways and
" Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD. 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, 11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."
Seek the Lord, nile, otherwise your doctrine could be the 'death' of you.
Abidersquirrelhouse mentioned to verses that speak, freely, too, of man's NEED (not desire, or, does Paul or Tim. or, Jude, et al, any them folk say they 'desire to follow God.' ??
" In all the ways acknowledge (respect? , seek? ) and He shall direct thy paths." Prov. 3: 5,6
People too get this crazy, sickening idea that just because God gave us CAUSE or reason to believe in Him by sending HiscSon to die for usvthis was divine intervention to change man's free will. Nothing could be further from the truth, if anything, and, for us, Christ's death on the frossvshould mean EVERYTHING to you, in a grace given , that saved us through faith, but, the cross should only have strengthened your understanding of God's measure of faith given man, starting with Adam and Eve
Freewill determinism is something God gave man, but with the understanding that He too 'sheweth mercy to whom He sheweth mercy,' as doesn't Scripture say.
Thi$ second abidering verse is rich, I want to flesh it out to the fullest context of its truth said in its 'pages.'
Jerusalem
Jerusalem and Region
Jerusalem aerial from east
<< Proverbs 16 >> King James Bible
The Tongue's Answer is from the Lord
1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
2 All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
3 Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.
4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.
8 Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.
9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
I don't do "yes or no," because that means I have to accept their premise, which I may not agree with.
I believe it all happens at the same time.
The above Scripture states that salvation is by grace, through faith.
So grace is the first cause here.
The second cause is faith.
"Second cause" means it is the vehicle through which the first cause effects (makes happen) the outcome, which is salvation.
So I understand the above Scripture to be stating the order is: grace--->faith--->salvation.
So the question is: what is grace?
Is it regeneration?
If it is, then my answer is "yes."
What do you think grace is?
I believe it all happens at the same time.
The above Scripture states that salvation is by grace, through faith.
So grace is the first cause here.
The second cause is faith.
"Second cause" means it is the vehicle through which the first cause effects (makes happen) the outcome, which is salvation.
So I understand the above Scripture to be stating the order is: grace--->faith--->salvation.
So the question is: what is grace?
Is it regeneration?
If it is, then my answer is "yes."
What do you think grace is?