What does "limited atonement" mean?
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M
Were not created holy my friend
We are created imperfect, one of the reasons we have to reside here on earth for the time being since God cannot be in the presence of sin and we are here until we are perfected.
Another reason we are here is to throw it in satans face that even an imperfect being such as ourselves (being born sinful from the start) will still choose God on their own even without seeing him when satan did not even after walking with him.
For example look again at the interaction between God and satan regarding Job
Shall we be led to believe God even cared of satans opinion regarding his servant or actually was laughing at the one who tries to mock him.
Psalm 2:4
The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them
And not just satan, same goes for anyone who mocks him,
As well since it is our nature to sin without satans help for being first born of the flesh and not of spirit before being born again part of what we accomplish when we continually choose God and glorify him is throwing it in satans face.
Proverbs 1
23If you had responded to my rebuke,I would have poured out my heart to you
and made my thoughts known to you.
24But since you rejected me when I called
and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
25since you ignored all my advice
and would not accept my rebuke,
26I in turn will laugh at your disaster;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28“Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me.
29Since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the Lord,
Refering again to the instance with Cain and Abel, do you see any influence from satan prompting Cain to kill his brother, or jealousy from his own heart causing him to do so on his own.
Satan doesnt make us sin,
On the contrary he just tries to provide every possible wide pathway to make it easy for us to choose to do so.
We are created imperfect, one of the reasons we have to reside here on earth for the time being since God cannot be in the presence of sin and we are here until we are perfected.
Another reason we are here is to throw it in satans face that even an imperfect being such as ourselves (being born sinful from the start) will still choose God on their own even without seeing him when satan did not even after walking with him.
For example look again at the interaction between God and satan regarding Job
Shall we be led to believe God even cared of satans opinion regarding his servant or actually was laughing at the one who tries to mock him.
Psalm 2:4
The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them
And not just satan, same goes for anyone who mocks him,
As well since it is our nature to sin without satans help for being first born of the flesh and not of spirit before being born again part of what we accomplish when we continually choose God and glorify him is throwing it in satans face.
Proverbs 1
23If you had responded to my rebuke,I would have poured out my heart to you
and made my thoughts known to you.
24But since you rejected me when I called
and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
25since you ignored all my advice
and would not accept my rebuke,
26I in turn will laugh at your disaster;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28“Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me.
29Since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the Lord,
Refering again to the instance with Cain and Abel, do you see any influence from satan prompting Cain to kill his brother, or jealousy from his own heart causing him to do so on his own.
Satan doesnt make us sin,
On the contrary he just tries to provide every possible wide pathway to make it easy for us to choose to do so.
M
Hi Cobus I looked at it again, and I think I understand where you're coming from now.
Meaning that whether our sin is of our own fleshly desires or whether influenced by satan himself, they are still transgressions against God and since satan is the prince of this world that even if a person sin merely out of desire that has conceived, that person is still of the devil by default since they simply are not being led by God.
Is this what you mean?
Meaning that whether our sin is of our own fleshly desires or whether influenced by satan himself, they are still transgressions against God and since satan is the prince of this world that even if a person sin merely out of desire that has conceived, that person is still of the devil by default since they simply are not being led by God.
Is this what you mean?
M
Perhaps at times I attempt to oversimplify things for everybody reading and within that taking for granted that not all things are common knowledge.
So you want me to do better do ya
Lets start with this question first then and build upon that,
When we are told
---"be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect"
what does that really mean?
Perfect in what manner?
So you want me to do better do ya
Lets start with this question first then and build upon that,
When we are told
---"be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect"
what does that really mean?
Perfect in what manner?
A
Midnight, do you know I appreciate your friendship and let us KEEP this peace in the BOND of love FOR GOD'S TRUTH!
Yes, my friend I am here to share that God SAVES us right here on earth. And it is so true... We may or may NOT be born PURE, but NOT HOLY! God said is we have even one believing parent, we are born pure, but if there is no parent believer we are born impure. However how we are born is not the issue, what we DO when God calls is the issue.
Jesus said He did not come for the righteouss, but for sinners TO REPENT! So the issue is the REPENT from our ways as sinners. Even the PURE-BORN will sin and fall short. Also they need to repent and be baptized... This baptism is another GREAT mystery for us, but it is in the Word of God.
You see Midnight I believe God saves sinners to HOLINESS. They might not have been born holy, but Jesus says VERY clearly, that HE MAKES HOLY and presents to Himself a PERFECT CHURCH.
I know no person that is sinner and then in one day woke up one morning and is no more a snner. Maybe just PAul.... If DYING off the old man is OBEDIENCE to the Holy Spirit's LEAD, then we need to LEARN obedience, and that might take a while. So i do not think the WASHING OF THE WATER BY THE WORD, is a short period, but I do believe it is a THOROUGH washing. A Complete washin, and a perfect cleansing. I know Paul repented in a minute, and STOPPED all his sin the mement Jesus talked to him. But even Paul went into a three year sabatical with only the Holy Spirit as his teacher. There Paul learned obedience...
In Hebrews the Bible teaches us that Jesus learned obedience through the things He suffered. And The Bible teach that... Do we not know that whom we yield ourselves to as servants to OBEY... we are the servants of WHOM WE OBEY... EITHR of sin unto death... OR ... OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS... (Romans 6 and Hebrews 5)
My friend the Word of God teaches us... Satan uses the lusts of the flesh to work on, but if we CRUCIFY that lusts, he has NOTHING to TOUCH us with. 1 John 5 says these people JEEPETH THEMSELVES, and the wicket one toucheth them NOT!
That is all how God seperates us from evil... THe Word uses the word, DELIVER OUT OF TEMPTATION... But this is the wonderful thing... If God deliver OUT of he also has to deliver IN TO.... And He delivers out of temptation, in to holiness...2 Peter 2:9... The LORD KNOWETH to deliver the GODLY out of temptation. and also what to do with the unjust...
I hope God will SHOW you this and that you learn even ONE OBEDIENCE to the FAITH from this, and I hope I do too!
Thank you for your time, may God's Word profiteth from our friendship and fellowship, AMEN!
Yes, my friend I am here to share that God SAVES us right here on earth. And it is so true... We may or may NOT be born PURE, but NOT HOLY! God said is we have even one believing parent, we are born pure, but if there is no parent believer we are born impure. However how we are born is not the issue, what we DO when God calls is the issue.
Jesus said He did not come for the righteouss, but for sinners TO REPENT! So the issue is the REPENT from our ways as sinners. Even the PURE-BORN will sin and fall short. Also they need to repent and be baptized... This baptism is another GREAT mystery for us, but it is in the Word of God.
You see Midnight I believe God saves sinners to HOLINESS. They might not have been born holy, but Jesus says VERY clearly, that HE MAKES HOLY and presents to Himself a PERFECT CHURCH.
I know no person that is sinner and then in one day woke up one morning and is no more a snner. Maybe just PAul.... If DYING off the old man is OBEDIENCE to the Holy Spirit's LEAD, then we need to LEARN obedience, and that might take a while. So i do not think the WASHING OF THE WATER BY THE WORD, is a short period, but I do believe it is a THOROUGH washing. A Complete washin, and a perfect cleansing. I know Paul repented in a minute, and STOPPED all his sin the mement Jesus talked to him. But even Paul went into a three year sabatical with only the Holy Spirit as his teacher. There Paul learned obedience...
In Hebrews the Bible teaches us that Jesus learned obedience through the things He suffered. And The Bible teach that... Do we not know that whom we yield ourselves to as servants to OBEY... we are the servants of WHOM WE OBEY... EITHR of sin unto death... OR ... OBEDIENCE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS... (Romans 6 and Hebrews 5)
My friend the Word of God teaches us... Satan uses the lusts of the flesh to work on, but if we CRUCIFY that lusts, he has NOTHING to TOUCH us with. 1 John 5 says these people JEEPETH THEMSELVES, and the wicket one toucheth them NOT!
That is all how God seperates us from evil... THe Word uses the word, DELIVER OUT OF TEMPTATION... But this is the wonderful thing... If God deliver OUT of he also has to deliver IN TO.... And He delivers out of temptation, in to holiness...2 Peter 2:9... The LORD KNOWETH to deliver the GODLY out of temptation. and also what to do with the unjust...
I hope God will SHOW you this and that you learn even ONE OBEDIENCE to the FAITH from this, and I hope I do too!
Thank you for your time, may God's Word profiteth from our friendship and fellowship, AMEN!
M
I agree with this Cobus, and I appreciate your friendship too.
I can see your heart is in the right place.
Although I'm wondering if this sort of steered off topic
For some reason I'm getting the feeling as though Im being offered milk when I was trying to offer you meat.
I could write a few pages tying everything together leading up to what I was trying to convey backing it with scripture, but my point was:
When left to our own devices we're pretty capable of sinning on our own without satans help.
It's more when were not sinning on our own is when satan really starts to focus on us to drive a wedge between us and God.
I can see your heart is in the right place.
Although I'm wondering if this sort of steered off topic
For some reason I'm getting the feeling as though Im being offered milk when I was trying to offer you meat.
I could write a few pages tying everything together leading up to what I was trying to convey backing it with scripture, but my point was:
When left to our own devices we're pretty capable of sinning on our own without satans help.
It's more when were not sinning on our own is when satan really starts to focus on us to drive a wedge between us and God.