Can a born again Christian ever lose his salvation? - By Terry Watkins

[RickShafer]

What man that has come into the world was NOT born of God?

He's speaking of the second birth.
"Those who are born of the flesh are flesh,
those who are born of the Spirit, are Spirit"
(Jesus speaking to Nicodemus)

 

[simplyme_bekah]

nah you can't lose your salvation. The Lord says nothing and no one can pluck you out of his hand once you become his. Always believe his promises to us ok.

 

[in-God-we-trust]

You can be called "least" in the Kingdom of Heaven but you can never be thrown out and you cannot leave, once you entered.

Matthew 5:19Anyone who breaks
one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be
called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these
commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[RickShafer]

Oh!! but, if a person really, really, really, really, really, badly wants to leave.......
I mean cut out and do his own thing.....isn't it possible??????
Yes
But the question then becomes, was he ever really among the flock?
Was he/she ever abiding under the shadow of the almighty?

"Oh,.....but sometimes I just wanna go and........." - (then go)
......(why haven't you went?) - Could it be the immutable decision of God to hold you back, to keep you in His sheltering arms?
Does God have that kind of power over those He freely chooses to elect? To change their course even though they want to seek fame and fortune?
Yes

And in the process He changes their heart. To seek God.
Because every good gift comes from the Lord.
And salvation through faith is the greatest gift of all.

 

[Elin]

by Terry Watkins​

Can a born again
Christian ever lose his salvation?
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]What if we later --- BELIEVE NOT?

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Our salvation is so secure --- even if we BELEIEVE NOT after we're saved, because we become part of Him (the body of Christ), ". . .yet he abideth faithful: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF."

"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithfull: HE CANNOT DENY HIMSELF." 2 Timothy 2:13​

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]It was really great until it got here, but now it bears some looking into.

The Greek word used for "believe not" is apisteo, and means "faithless" here.

"Faithless" is us, and is in contrast to "faithful," which is God (v.13).

But God doesn't have faith, so v.13 is not about belief. . .it's about "stayin' with the stuff,"
like a faithful Marine.

We may fail to "stay with the stuff," but God never fails in "stayin' with the stuff."

This is important because Scripture does address what happens if we "believe not."

If we "believe not," we were never really born again in the first place (1Jn 2:19).

Loss of faith is never by a child of God, but is demonstration they never were a child of God, their faith was counterfeit, as in Mt 7:21-23.

There are none in Christ, nor in God's family who "believe not," because despite temporary appearances, that means they were never born again.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

​

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD] Why do people doubt their salvation?

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

• They have NEVER been saved.
  
  
  "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;. . ." Matthew 7:21​

[/quote
This is the group in which those who "believe not" belong.

 

[Elin]

Many times (not all) people are in fear of losing their salvation because they are living in some particular sin that has a stranglehold on them, perhaps backsliding. I've been there before and I've had similar thoughts of doubt. It wasn't until I broke out of two certain sins I have been in and forsake them and turned to God and in repentance and stopped doing them that I felt "full" and "secure" in my salvation again.

So if anyone is reading this, please stop the 2-3 (or all if you can) biggest "thorny" sins you have in your side and I promise the conviction will go away and you will be put back in fellowship with God and feel secure again in your salvation. I had panic attacks at night before I fell asleep thinking about these sins and thinking how ashamed I would be if I died while in this sinful lifestyle and how guilty I would have felt to see Jesus face to face--I wasn't ready to face Him in the condition I was in. It literally kept me awake at night. But God, who started the good work in you and me, WILL bring it to completion. Living in sin will not make you feel comfortable and the Holy Spirit will assault your conscience until you turn back. And let me tell you, since I've turned back fully to God, those two sins I was committing do NOT compare in the satisfaction to my soul. Knowing I am closer to God without the shroud of guilt hanging over my head feels so great and so gratifying.

Please turn away from those strongholds in your life today--quit cold turkey!--and I promise you will instantly feel better.

In Jesus' Holy name, amen.

Outstanding!

 

[hermanodaniel]

The real question is whether we strive to make our election sure. 2 Peter 1:10
What about our freewill? The truth is that although we have a will (that is a choice) it isn't free (that means it is bound or limited) to do as we please. I can make plans but since I am not God and not Sovereign I can not guarantee that I will be here tomorrow to accomplish what I will. God calls and draws and we submit to his grace and OBEY. We are called and then drawn by the Father because no one can come to God unless He calls and draws us. God called me by name and drew me and I said here am I. Now for our understanding (and I mean our understanding because we are stuck in time) it seems that we choose whether to say yes or no to God. Let say someone says yes to God (I have!) and the individual is set apart living for God went through his spiritual bouts but ultimately was victorious in Christ because they believed to the end when that individual hears well done faithful and good servant HE OR SHE WILL TRULY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY DID NOT CHOOSE GOD BUT GOD CHOSE THEM! Now what does that mean??? Well God is God and we are not so if we think that we can choose God first we are mistaken. How can we choose God who is eternal and out of time??? When the word says God foreknew us it doesn't mean foreknowledge (knowing what we will choose) but that He actually knew us completely inside and out (our heart).

I remembered when I first stumbled upon that verse in Romans "Jacob I loved and Esau I hated" and I prayed for understanding. God led me to a book in the Bible I haven't visited at the time and a short book at that... I was led to Obadiah and when I read Obadiah God showed me the pride Esau harbored in his heart. When the Bible says God knows us it is to an extent that baffles us because we are stuck in time but this is why God is God in the first place. We reap what we sow and we can deceive man but we can't deceive God...This is a profound mystery but nonetheless the truth. However, we should avoid asking who is the elect (chosen) because no one knows and so we must preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and make our election sure by abiding in Christ till the end. Rest assure that those who want to seek God and inherit eternal life as the scripture states "and everyone who calls upon the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13 are the elect! No one can seek God truthfully from the heart and be disqualified simply because they were not the elect! This is not how the election works! The elect are those who surrendered their life to God and the those who perish are those who refused the Gospel and have trampled the Son of God and insulted the Spirit of Grace not wanting NOTHING to do with God.

God doesn't reject anyone who seeks him. No one is stuck or condemned to hell because God willed it. In fact hell wasn't created for us but for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41. There is a reason and purpose for everything God does and although we cannot understand completely because He is God and we are men we can gain some understanding by rightly dividing the Word of God. God says there are vessels of wrath (Romans 9) but he also stated He doesn't will for anyone to be lost (2 Peter 3:9. Jacob I loved Esau I hated but compare with the book of Obadiah and you find why Esau was hated. Since God is out of time it seems as though God wills those he wants and rejects those he hate but He knows our hearts so his sovereignty and declaration of his glory meets when we accept him or reject him. No one can be against the truth but only for the truth (2 Corinthians 13:8) thus God will be glorified nonetheless whether we offer it willingly or not. Rest assure that no one is rejected if they seek God. We come to God when God calls and draws. We sleep because our bodies are tired, we eat because our bodies get hungry, we respond to someone when they say our name etc. These are all examples of how we acknowledge or recognize a need and respond accordingly. Everyone that comes to God is because God has called them and drawn them and those who reject God have also been called. The fact that God has elects is because who can say yes or no to God before His declaration of glory? No one! Choose God and live and you will find out that God has chosen you because He is God!

 

[RickShafer]

See, the thing is people don't see it as fair.
Why God would choose some, why letting others "do their own thing".
But, you have to look at it from a purely logical basis.
Is God the great king and final judge? - - Yes.
Who deserves to go to hell? - - - EVERYBODY.
Does a president, prime minister, or king have the right to grant clemency? - - Yes.
So, if God decides to grant a certain one clemency, who hasn't had justice?
In other words, who among the condemned,......DOESN'T DESERVE TO BE WHERE THEY ARE?

(Kind of off topic) - Oh well....

 

[hermanodaniel]

The thing is that God's perspective and ours are two different things and we are called to abide and walk after the spirit which is God's will for us in Christ Jesus. One cannot conclude that if they see someone who they once saw was faithfully going to church and even preaching on the streets or at church and now that person is not serving God that they have lost their salvation because that person could have been half-hearted or that person will be drawn back etc. In other words, when believers see someone entangled in sin again many are quick to conclude that person lost their salvation when we are going off what we see with our natural eyes. In God's perspective He knows those who are truly His, no one loses their salvation in his perspective no can fool God. Let us pray for those we see that are backslidden or professed to be backslidden for love covers a multitude of sin.

 

[Stephen63]

Ok, but what about this verse?

"It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

That verse speaks about the Christian who had plenty of good works, but not all of them were done because they loved God. Sometimes we do things for the kingdom because of how good it makes us look, or because of our ego or our pride, just to name a few ways. Those works will be burned.

 

[nonicknametouse]

I think I already shared my view on this , but will put my two cents in again. Salvation is a gift from God. We did nothing to deserve this wonderful gift. God gave us this gift because he loves us so much that He sent His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. If you gave a friend or family member a gift and they did something to you to get you angry etc. would you ask for the gift back. Most likely you would not. We all fall short, we are not perfect, that is why Jesus shed His blood, which covers our sins. We don't need to ask for attonement once a year as the Jews do, we are forgiven of our sins every minute of every day. And we don't sacrifice animals for temorary forgiveness. Jesus is the last sacrificial lamb. He died once and for all. We break our fellowship with God because of our sinful nature. Sometimes it is hard to return to the Lord because of shame etc. Look at all of our brothers and sisters through out the bible who have fallen. King David was a murder, adulterer, he was not a good father, but yet was considered a man after God's own heart. Did the Lord through them in hell when they fell. Of course not. He uses ordinary people to do extrodinary things according to the gifts He gives to His children. He Loves us unconditionaly. He gives us His agape love.

 

[Stephen63]

I don't have the power to keep myself saved.

The problem with what you qoute and how you use it is the same problem Catholics have when they claim grace+works. Works come after the reality of the Grace, just as perseverence comes after the reality of Grace. Only if that Grace is taken away can that perseverence disappear. If God has saved a person they will persevere. If they do not persevere, they were never saved. Don't put the cart before the horse.

The Bible says we will know them by their fruits. I have known several people in my short little life that had an actual experience with Christ Jesus because their fruit exposed them for who they were. Several years of ministry, people actually getting saved under their ministry, yet later on in life these people walked away from God. Most have thrown away their morals. When I see them in the store, they will turn and go the other way, because they don't want to be bothered with me or anyone else who is saved. These people were not hypocrites in the beginning, but were born-again. Disobedience is still a sin, and sin when it is finished, brings forth death.

 

[justamazed]

He's speaking of the second birth.
"Those who are born of the flesh are flesh,
those who are born of the Spirit, are Spirit"
(Jesus speaking to Nicodemus)

Can flesh bring about life? No one in the true sense of the word is born of the flesh. Christ is the light of everyone who comes into the world.

"Born of the flesh" is a mindset. "Born of the Spirit" is a mindset.

 

[crosspreacher]

No, if you are born again, you cannot be lost.
God cannot save you and then loose you if you are born again. God never fails.

 

[savedsince14]

It's simple. As I have said on other threads,here is a scenario that would HAVE to be true for a Christian to lose their salvation. God gives salvation, right? Sin is what would have to take it away. And,who wants you to sin?Satan, right? So if sin can take it away,and Satan is who wants you to sin, then Satan can take it away. If that is true, and it would HAVE to be to lose salvation, then Satan would be MORE powerful than God because Satan could take away what God gives you.This scenerio is definetely NOT true .One of my favorite verses to back my belief of never losing salvation is Galations 2:22 which states,"For I do not frustrate the grace the grace of God, for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Simply put ,if you could live good enough to get yourself into heaven, there was no reason for Christ to come and die.I hope this helped anyone who has a problem with believing once you are saved , you are saved forever. The reason for our lifestyles after salvation is two fold. First, to benefit us at the judgement seat of Christ. Second, to make believers out of others. NOT to keep ourselves saved.

 

[Radius]

That verse speaks about the Christian who had plenty of good works, but not all of them were done because they loved God. Sometimes we do things for the kingdom because of how good it makes us look, or because of our ego or our pride, just to name a few ways. Those works will be burned.

Yes, but I am emphasizing the last part of the verse where it says they will still be saved--but just barely so as to escape hell.

 

[HSfilledlady]

Ok, but what about this verse?

"It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

Radius, The verse you have mentioned refers to our efforts to follow God. Some of our deeds will make it through the fire, some of our deeds wont. Christians who follow Christ and live righteously will make it to heaven but it does say there will be varying rewards once we all get there. Not everyone will receive the same portion. The dross is deeds that didn't stand God's test. I think these deeds probably have to do with whether or not God asked us to do them, whether we did them for selfish motives or with a pure heart, whether we did them out of love for another, whether we obeyed God's comandments and teachings of the Bible, and many other things he teaches in his Word.

We all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; Christians sin all the time. The difference is, we TRY not to and just like you did, Chrsitians struggle against it. Our goal is always ultimately to please our Heavenly Father even if we aren't always good at it. God KNOWS OUR HEARTS which means He knows our motivation and how hard we try. He knows what we have all been through before, He knows our limitations and our weaknesses. That is why we shouldn't judge each other because we don't know enough to be just. God is just and gives us His grace anyway, but even God has His limits.

 

[HSfilledlady]

It's simple. As I have said on other threads,here is a scenario that would HAVE to be true for a Christian to lose their salvation. God gives salvation, right? Sin is what would have to take it away. And,who wants you to sin?Satan, right? So if sin can take it away,and Satan is who wants you to sin, then Satan can take it away. If that is true, and it would HAVE to be to lose salvation, then Satan would be MORE powerful than God because Satan could take away what God gives you.This scenerio is definetely NOT true .One of my favorite verses to back my belief of never losing salvation is Galations 2:22 which states,"For I do not frustrate the grace the grace of God, for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain." Simply put ,if you could live good enough to get yourself into heaven, there was no reason for Christ to come and die.I hope this helped anyone who has a problem with believing once you are saved , you are saved forever. The reason for our lifestyles after salvation is two fold. First, to benefit us at the judgement seat of Christ. Second, to make believers out of others. NOT to keep ourselves saved.

God gives us a choice. He gives us free will. Satan cant MAKE us sin--we choose to.

You are right we cannot EARN our salvation, but we CAN lose it by making bad choices over and over staying entrenched in sin instead of following God's plan, listening to the HS leading us and TRYING to conquere our sins.

This is what is means to work through your salvation with fear and trembling. The word work means you have to actually DO something.

Philippians 2:12-13, Paul writes, “Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed – not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence – continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his purpose"

Read more: What does it mean to work out salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12)?

​

 

[HSfilledlady]

I think I already shared my view on this , but will put my two cents in again. Salvation is a gift from God. We did nothing to deserve this wonderful gift. God gave us this gift because he loves us so much that He sent His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. If you gave a friend or family member a gift and they did something to you to get you angry etc. would you ask for the gift back. Most likely you would not. We all fall short, we are not perfect, that is why Jesus shed His blood, which covers our sins. We don't need to ask for attonement once a year as the Jews do, we are forgiven of our sins every minute of every day. And we don't sacrifice animals for temorary forgiveness. Jesus is the last sacrificial lamb. He died once and for all. We break our fellowship with God because of our sinful nature. Sometimes it is hard to return to the Lord because of shame etc. Look at all of our brothers and sisters through out the bible who have fallen. King David was a murder, adulterer, he was not a good father, but yet was considered a man after God's own heart. Did the Lord through them in hell when they fell. Of course not. He uses ordinary people to do extrodinary things according to the gifts He gives to His children. He Loves us unconditionaly. He gives us His agape love.

I agree but God will only forgive us if we repent....and when we ask. Did you meant to say you thinkk God forgives us automatically? Because this is not true.

 

[danschance]

I think the whole once saved always saved vs. salvation can be lost is two sides of the same coin. Both can be found in scripture so both aspects can be true. From God's perspective He knows who is saved and who is not. From our perspective we see some who fall away.