Can a born again Christian ever lose his salvation? - By Terry Watkins

[OceanGrl]

I find it frustrating how some people just use the parts of the Holy Book that suits them, then start a whole new theory! Prayer tonight will be focused on that I think! Peace to you, my brother! May the Lord Christ Jesus bring the rest of our brothers and sisters home

I agree about some people using parts of the bible to suit them but I think that goes for people on both sides of the discussion. At first it seems like a contradiction since both sides can present verses that support their theory, but which side is right? I am thinking no one will know until we are face to face with God.

 

[jimmydiggs]

[SUP]Hebrews 6
4[/SUP]It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, [SUP]5 [/SUP]who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age [SUP]6 [/SUP]and who have fallen[SUP][c][/SUP] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

If you want to believe you can unsave yourself, then so be it. I ask that you be consistant, and also believe that a person only gets one chance at being saved, and if they become unsaved they cannot be brought back to repentence.

I know not a single person who believes you can be unsaved, that will do so consistantly.

They want you at the altar getting re-saved again and again.

 

[in-God-we-trust]

A Christian reborn in the Holy Spirit cannot be unsaved, because she/he thinks now with the Holy Spirit only! Their main interest is the Holy Spirit and the wellbeing of all sisters and brothers in Christ and the improvement of the kingdom of Heaven on earth in the present time as well as in the future.

Their own body and brain spirit have become worthless. If they sin then they face punishment but this does not affect the Holy Spirit at all. The Holy Spirit has become everything for us, our own body has become utterly useless.

 

[zone]

A Christian reborn in the Holy Spirit cannot be unsaved, because she/he thinks now with the Holy Spirit only!

sounds like a reborn christian was evicted from their body and are now (mini)gods?

Their main interest is the Holy Spirit and the wellbeing of all sisters and brothers in Christ and the improvement of the kingdom of Heaven on earth in the present time as well as in the future.

the main interest is supposed to be Jesus Christ.
The Spirit doesn't testify of Himself, but of Christ.

Their own body and brain spirit have become worthless. If they sin then they face punishment but this does not affect the Holy Spirit at all. The Holy Spirit has become everything for us, our own body has become utterly useless.

what's a brain spirit?
if the Holy Spirit evicted my brain spirit from my useless body wouldn't i be God?

 

[in-God-we-trust]

Please sisters and brothers do not think Christianism ended with the apostels in the 3rd or 4th century. It has developped since much further and today we know more than the apostels knew we know more than Martin Luther and Calvin. We are living in the 21st century now!

Who knows whether the Holy Bible is complete. Maybe God Almighty might write another chapter within the next hundreds or thousands of years. Maybe we will be part of this chapter.

 

[in-God-we-trust]

sounds like a reborn christian was evicted from their body and are now (mini)gods?

Yes we are. At least we are of His family because we are children of God, if we believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God!

the main interest is supposed to be Jesus Christ.
The Spirit doesn't testify of Himself, but of Christ.

You do only get the Holy Spirit if you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. So, to acknowledge Jesus Christ the King of the Kingdom of God is the prerequisite of getting the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does far more than testify of Christ. It is for us like the internet.

what's a brain spirit?
if the Holy Spirit evicted my brain spirit from my useless body wouldn't i be God?

The brain spirit I call our brain and its ability to think and store data - our memory. It dies with the body when our body one day will die and all our memory will be erased! But the Holy Spirit will never die and His memory will never be erased. Like the data on our PC or tablet or smart phone is erased if our gadget is burned up. But the data stored on multiple servers in the internet will not be erased by that event.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Please sisters and brothers do not think Christianism ended with the apostels in the 3rd or 4th century. It has developped since much further and today we know more than the apostels knew we know more than Martin Luther and Calvin. We are living in the 21st century now!

Yeah! Capital "P" "P"rogress.

Those dumb guys in the past didn't know anything! How dare they have the final word.

Who knows whether the Holy Bible is complete. Maybe God Almighty might write another chapter within the next hundreds or thousands of years. Maybe we will be part of this chapter.

Not shocked.

 

[PS]

Please sisters and brothers do not think Christianism ended with the apostels in the 3rd or 4th century. It has developped since much further and today we know more than the apostels knew we know more than Martin Luther and Calvin. We are living in the 21st century now!

Who knows whether the Holy Bible is complete. Maybe God Almighty might write another chapter within the next hundreds or thousands of years. Maybe we will be part of this chapter.

John 21:25
Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

 

[starfield]

What is false on the word of God? Do you not believe in His words:

Isaiah 45:23

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]23 [/SUP]By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.

Why extract a passage and take it out of context to support a false doctrine of universal salvation? It is not a soteriological passage but is in reference to the future judgment (Romans 14:10-11, Philippians 2:9-11) where everyone, including those who were denying Jesus all their life, will bow and confess His divinity and authority to the glory of God but that doesn't mean unbelievers will become Christians because at that point repentance and salvation will be too late (Heb 9:27), therefore unbelievers will spend eternity in the Lake of fire. The door of salvation is still open, now is the time to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind.

Demons also confess Jesus Christ and believe there is one God (Mark 1:23-24, James 2:19) but that doesn't mean they are or will eventually become Christians.

This is the fate of unbelievers: Matt 25:46- And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Rev 20:15- And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[in-God-we-trust]

Why extract a passage and take it out of context to support a false doctrine of universal salvation? It is not a soteriological passage but is in reference to the future judgment (Romans 14:10-11, Philippians 2:9-11) where everyone, including those who were denying Jesus all their life, will bow and confess His divinity and authority to the glory of God but that doesn't mean unbelievers will become Christians because at that point repentance and salvation will be too late (Heb 9:27), therefore unbelievers will spend eternity in the Lake of fire. The door of salvation is still open, now is the time to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind.

Demons also confess Jesus Christ and believe there is one God (Mark 1:23-24, James 2:19) but that doesn't mean they are or will eventually become Christians.

This is the fate of unbelievers: Matt 25:46- And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Rev 20:15- And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Matthew 21:31“Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you."

You are a typical Sadducee and Pharisee of today!

Matthew 23:13“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You
shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not
enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

 

[in-God-we-trust]

Why extract a passage and take it out of context to support a false doctrine of universal salvation? ... will spend eternity in the Lake of fire. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment ...

You are very very selfish! Don't you see that? Of course you like the thought of yourself with a handful of fellows being saved and all others being tortured eternally! I doubt that God is such a sadist as you!

It is not a soteriological passage ...

Do you want to show us your great learning? You don't impress me much!

 

[zone]

Not shocked.

 

[in-God-we-trust]

By the way, why are you stressing always the book of revelation? That is a small book of the Holy Bible!

With the same right I could stress and repeat over and over again e.g. a similarily small book: The Song of Songs! But that is not your thing, right?

The book of revelation is very difficult to understand. BTW: it deals always with knights, people and celestial beings on horseback with swords in their hand. Nowadays we do not fight with swords anymore but with guns and airfighters and drones! May it be that the book of revelation meant something in the near future, the fights of persians and romans or so? It might have past and be of little relevance today. Think it over!

 

[in-God-we-trust]

Why God is no sadist (as if this had to be prooven!):

Ezekiel 18
23Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the
Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn
from their ways and live?


And why all people on earth finally will become Christians:

Malachi 1
11My name will be
great among the nations, from where the sun rises to where it sets. In every
place incense and pure offerings will be brought to me, because my name will be
great among the nations,” says the Lord Almighty.


What kind of a monster are you starfield? How can you call yourself a Christian if you have no love and compassion but selfish filth and sadist prevalences? Please go into yourself and reconsider your motives!

 

[savedsince14]

Wow! this is a very poor analogy of what Maynard said. It DOES NOT mean that "God is sitting up in heaven with a pencil and eraser waiting on us to sin so He can take our name out of the book of life." It's ludicrous to even THINK that what Maynard said means this! Unlike yourself, Maynard's comment simply means that salvation from God isn't something to be taken lightly. Your interpretation on scripture about this comes accross as "do what you like people! We're saved anyway. Whatever you do, God can't take our salvation from us because He's already promised it to us, even if you offend Him directly." You're right. We do sin every day of our lives, which means we MUST repent every day of our lives and show the ALMIGHTY how sorry we are every day of our lives. God never gives us a task that too hard. Its not impossible to live without sin, so we must strive for perfection which God wanted for us. Being weak is no excuse for imperfection. If we sin in full knowledge at the time that the act goes against God, and continue in that act, then we have BROKEN THAT CONNECTION WITH GOD INTENTIONALLY therefore losing our salvation. God DOES NOT OWE US SALVATION. He gave it to us freely, it is us who lose it on our own accord. No excuses, champ. God bless.

7seven7, My apologies for your misunderstanding what I said. My point was that those scenerios would have to be true if we could lose our salvation. When we sin we break fellowship with God but not sonship. I have heard so much misinterpreted scripture claiming salvation could be lost. Until I started obeying 2nd Timothy 2: 15 in the King James Bible. Those scenerios are not true by any means. I would hate to think that I would have to live every day in fear of losing my salvation because I committed one act of sin. I would have to be on my knees constantly praying and I wouldn't have time to eat, sleep or do anything else for constantly having to ask for forgiveness. And I would have to, just like every one else would if salvation could be lost. God Bless you.

 

[savedsince14]

"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
-Rev 22:19

That verse indicates that someone whose name was in the book of life can be easily removed. Call it God's pencil and eraser if you like, but it is what it is.

And again...
"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
- Rev 3:5

This indicates that He could indeed "blot out his name", though will not do so to "he that overcometh".

Pencil and eraser? Call it what you wish. It is what it is.

And again...

"Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous."
- Psalm 69:28

For something to be "blotted out" then it had to exist there before.

There's God's eraser again, tending to the Book of Life.

Oh wait, here it is again...

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book."
- Exodus 32:33

There's more, but let's move on...



This is a war for souls that we are in. You believe that simply because you said the sinners prayer at 14 that your salvation is assured and Satan gives up then on destroying your soul. The body of scripture in its entirety however clearly contradicts this mistaken belief.




There is venial sin which warrants only temporal punishment, and then there is mortal sin which separates us from God, kills spiritual life, and is only forgiven through true repentance, confession, and contrition:
"If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and Godwill give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal."
1 John 5:16

Here is the blessed St. Jerome commenting on this [A.D. 393]..
"There are venial sins and there are mortal sins. It is one thing to owe ten thousand talents, another to owe but a farthing. We shall have to give an accounting for an idle word no less than for adultery. But to be made to blush and to be tortured are not the same thing; not the same thing to grow red in the face and to be in agony for a long time. . . . If we entreat for lesser sins we are granted pardon, but for greater sins, it is difficult to obtain our request. There is a great difference between one sin and another" (Against Jovinian 2:30 [A.D. 393]).



In spite of a mountain of biblical scripture which clearly contradicts the false doctrine of "once saved, always saved". OSAS is false teaching and heresy. Lean not on your own understanding.




You should read all of it then, not just the part that appeals to your personal beliefs...

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place [spreading false teachings], and they destroy the faith of some. "The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord MUST turn away from wickedness.”
1 Tim 2:15-19

Early Church writing. First generation after Christ [A.D. 70].
Didache:
"Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made complete in the last time" (Didache 16 [A.D. 70]).

Justin Martyr:
"Eternal fire was prepared for him who voluntarily departed from God and for all who, without repentance, persevere in apostasy"
(Against Heresies 5:26 [A.D. 156]).


May the peace and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, savedsince14.

Maynard

Maynard, First of all, I ONLY recognize The King James Bible as the word of God. The verses you are referring to about your name being taken out of the book of life are referring to people who are lost trying to change God's word . And , by the way , I DID quote ALL of 2nd Timothy 2:15 from the King James Bible. I would hate to think ,as I told 7seven7 a minute ago, that I would have to live in fear every day of my life because I would be afraid of losing my salvation because I committed one sin. I would have to be on my knees ALL the time , no time to eat , sleep or anything else because I would have to be praying every single minute asking for forgiveness. This is what I would have to do if salvation could be taken away. You and I will just agree to disagree, God bless you.

 

[homwardbound]

Ok, but what about this verse?

"It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

And that is contingent on whether this person that is going through the fire is a believer or not one noands ifs or but, for those tha tdo believe will trust Father to remove their ignorance. ignorance is after beleif trying to stop ones flesh from sinning because that is what causes one to continue in sin. Just the thought of flesh for one emotions do not know any right or wrong and just think flesh thoughts as trying to quit smoking your emotions do not hear oyu wanting to quit your emotion hears smoking and therefore you are smoking, and the same is true with all sinful behavior. the only way tom overcome is praising God thanking God that hye overcame and you do not have to. The way God provided foryou to escape is by starting the new life where in all sin is gone, you ebing so busy with this new life there is no time for sin. i know you see this Radiusforyou are one in the spirit of God

 

[homwardbound]

God gives us the faith to have faith in Him. He saves us, we just accept his help.

Hey Tintin how about accept not his help rather his 100% finsished work at the cross and be saved as you already are but knowingly 100% where he has taken all your fears and worries away by the renewing of your mind. You out of the way just a thought to express to you I know you are saved already

 

[homwardbound]

If any man is incapable of saving himself, why then put the onus on that man to take hold of something which is FREELY given by God?

Yep you said it and that is it just what you said and Paul reminded the Galatians and asked who bewitched you and most tof the world is bewitched into working for one's salvation trying to keep themselves clean not realizing that htey are sowing to the flesh and that is what is keeping them in their sin

 

[homwardbound]

We are quite safe in His loving care for He will always guide, protect and forgive us our sins, the only cause for concern is the believer who does a 180 degree turn around and commits apostasy, totally rejecting and denouncing the Lord for evermore.

Providing we don't do that then our salvation is eternally secure.

PS I do because I am forgiven by his Blood back at the cross there is no on going forgiveness Sister It is finished and he died for sin once and for all