WILL THERE BE A RAPTURE?

[iog]

Jesus said with his own mouth [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](St. John 3:13) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]" And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]even [/FONT][/FONT]the Son of man which is in heaven."

Also,
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
(St. John 7: 33-34) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]" Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]then [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]I go unto him that sent me.Ye shall seek me, and shall not find [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]me[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]: and where I am, [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]thither[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]: ye cannot come."

Another scripture they use is

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](St. John 14:1-3) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]" [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]In my Father's house are many mansions: if [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]it were [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]not [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]so[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]there [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]ye may be also."

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Why [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]do they, when using this scripture, always leave out the part, or ignore, that Jesus said,"

I will come again"?

Come again to the earth to receive you to myself.

 

[iog]

Maybe because it's a promise from God that the church, the body of Christ, all those that are born again of God's Spirit are saved from God's wrath?

show me where God promised that?

 

[iog]

Paul, in the book of Hebrews gave us clarity on this and about the promises,



[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](Hebrews 11:13-16) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]" These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]them[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT], and embraced [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]them[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]country [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]country[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT], that is, a heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

 

[iog]

Also, the Apostle John added to this,

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](Revelation 21:1-2 & 10) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."And I John saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband and he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God."

 

[iog]

Another scripture used is,
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)

[/FONT][/FONT]But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]and [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]and [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
We see here that the Lord is steadily descending from heaven coming to the earth.

We have people meeting him in the clouds and in the air.

This is the dead in Christ rising first and then, them that are left alive being taken.

Now that we're in the clouds and in the air with the Lord, where do we go from here?

 

[superdave5221]

Maybe because it's a promise from God that the church, the body of Christ, all those that are born again of God's Spirit are saved from God's wrath?

Saved from God's wrath, (which is eternity in Hell), YES! But nowhere does the bible say that we will be saved from tribulation and trouble. In fact, we see the opposite.

Just ask Paul and see what he says in his second letter to the Corinthians:

2Co 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
2Co 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day have I been in the deep;
2Co 11:26 in journeyings often, in perils of rivers, in perils of robbers, in perils from my countrymen, in perils from the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
2Co 11:27 in labor and travail, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

 

[superdave5221]

　
If such an event is to take place, why doesn't the word Rapture appear in the Bible?

Although I tentatively agree with you, (I say tentatively because I am still researching this issue), the above argument is not a good one. The word Trinity does not appear in the bible either, and yet I definitely believe in that, as I would suppose that you do too.

 

[starfield]

Saved from God's wrath, (which is eternity in Hell), YES! But nowhere does the bible say that we will be saved from tribulation and trouble. In fact, we see the opposite.

Just ask Paul and see what he says in his second letter to the Corinthians:

2Co 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
2Co 11:25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day have I been in the deep;
2Co 11:26in journeyings often, in perils of rivers, in perils of robbers, in perils from my countrymen, in perils from the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
2Co 11:27in labor and travail, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness.

That passage can be applied to different trials and tribulations believers experience in their daily Christian living, not the 7-year Tribulation.
Jesus did not say we will not be persecuted for our faith...
Matt 5:10-12
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

The Tribulation will be God's judgment upon the wicked and also the last chance for repentance. There will be no church-age believer who has been washed by the blood of Christ on earth during Jacob's trouble; faithful is He who has promised. Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[Elin]

　
All of the Prophets, even David, a man after the Lords' own heart does not speak of a rapture, but instead discusses the wilderness (the place of safety during the Great Tribulation) which is right here on the earth.

Exactly what does Rapture mean anyway? ("Ecstasy, Intense Spiritual or Emotional Ecstasy") Webster's Dictionary

"Rature" means the "act of transporting, or the fact of being transported,"

it is a "catching up," as in 1Th 4:16-17.

 

[Anonimous]

"Rature" means the "act of transporting, or the fact of being transported,"

it is a "catching up," as in 1Th 4:16-17.

There is a Greek word "ek" which means to "catch away" or "snatch up or out of". So, it IS mentioned. The timing is more of a question for me.

 

[Elin]

Yes there will be a rapture! but a secret rapture to save us from tribulation? NO! To save us from God's wrath? YES!

Does 1Th 4:16-17 sound secret to you?

"The Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first (i.e., before the rapture).
After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

"Caught up" is the meaning of "rapture."

 

[Elin]

Hi Peter, there will be No Rapture. Every eye will see the coming of the Lord. Trumpets will be sounded to wake the people. Rapture refers to being torn away unknowingly, and this will not be the case. The saved ones will receive heavenly bodies and will rise up to the cloud to meet the Lord.

Where do you get that "catching up" is unknowlingly?

 

[Blain]

The lord has not only shown me there will be a rapture but he showed me what it would feel like as well. He showed me what i believe is the man of sin, and he showed me the 144,000 ppl when they are empowered by the holy spirit. I have been telling my family it's going to happen but nobody listens to blain

 

[superdave5221]

That passage can be applied to different trials and tribulations believers experience in their daily Christian living, not the 7-year Tribulation.
Jesus did not say we will not be persecuted for our faith...
Matt 5:10-12
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

The Tribulation will be God's judgment upon the wicked and also the last chance for repentance. There will be no church-age believer who has been washed by the blood of Christ on earth during Jacob's trouble; faithful is He who has promised. Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

You have not given any indication, however, that Christians would be exempt from tribulation, even a great one. Rev. 3:10 is written to the congregation at Philadelphia, and there is no indication that it applies to a Great End Time Tribulation.

John Wesley has this to say about Rev. 3:10:
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience - The word of Christ is indeed a word of patience. I also will keep thee - O happy exemption from that spreading calamity! From the hour of temptation - So that thou shalt not enter into temptation; but it shall pass over thee. The hour denotes the short time of its continuance; that is, at any one place. At every one it was very sharp, though short; wherein the great tempter was not idle, Rev_2:10. Which hour shall come upon the whole earth - The whole Roman empire. It went over the Christians, and over the Jews and heathens; though in a very different manner. This was the time of the persecution under the seemingly virtuous emperor Trajan. The two preceding persecutions were under those monsters, Nero and Domitian; but Trajan was so admired for his goodness, and his persecution was of such a nature, that it was a temptation indeed, and did throughly try them that dwelt upon the earth.

 

[Anonimous]

Where do you get that "catching up" is unknowlingly?

Maybe when Paul says, "every eye will see..." that refers to when Jesus returns physically to establish His kingdom? When that happens there will be no mistaking it.

 

[Elin]

CLEARLY the Bible Teaches that when the Lord Does Return it is going to be for a Church without Spot and Blameless, PURIFIED by Obedience to the Truth! (2Pet3:14, 1Pet1:22) His TRUE Saints will NOT be overtaken as a Thief, or Walking in Darkness, (1Thess5:4-5) or sinning everyday in thought, word and deed. (as the churches are being taught) They will be Watching and Waiting Diligently Serving the Lord and Contending earnestly for the Truth in these Dark times. Genuine Believers are NOT Double-Minded, Divided in heart or trying to Serve Two Masters. They have Crucified the flesh with its passion and desires and sin does NOT reign in their mortal bodies.

But they will not be without spot or wrinkle as long as they are in the flesh of human bodies.

They will be without spot or wrinkle at the resurrection,
by both the declaration of righteousness because of faith in Christ's atoning work on the cross, and
by the work of the Holy Spirit through obedience, both in their lives on earth.

The DAY of the Lord is NOT Divided into Dispensations or Separated by any time frames. As the Early Saints understood it was
a SINGLE Day of the Lord’s Return and Judgment. Here are some Proof Texts:

Matthew 25:13 “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.”

Acts 17:30-31 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Romans 2:16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

1 Corinthians 1:8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:14 as also you have understood us in part, that we are your boast as you also are ours, in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Philippians 1:10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ,

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.

2 Thessalonians 2:2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.

2 Timothy 4:8 Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.

1 Peter 2:12 having your conduct honorable among the Gentiles, that when they speak against you as evildoers, they may, by your good works which they observe, glorify God in the day of visitation.

If ANY of the inspired Writers understood a Secret Rapture of the Saints, WHY didn’t they mention it in these passages?

They did mention a rapture. . .in the passsage you omitted. . .1Th 4:16-17.

But it is not secret.

 

[Elin]

Another scripture used is,
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-17)

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
We see here that the Lord is steadily descending from heaven coming to the earth.

We have people meeting him in the clouds and in the air.

This is the dead in Christ rising first and then, them that are left alive being taken.

Now that we're in the clouds and in the air with the Lord, where do we go from here?

Parousia - return with him to earth for the final judgment.

 

[Bookends]

The lord has not only shown me there will be a rapture but he showed me what it would feel like as well. He showed me what i believe is the man of sin, and he showed me the 144,000 ppl when they are empowered by the holy spirit. I have been telling my family it's going to happen but nobody listens to blain

Aren't all believers empowered by the HS?

When is this going to happen? exact date would be nice, but if not, give a generality of when it will happen, like 3 years? 10 years, or 20 years? You can always say something will happen in the future and never be wrong as long as you say its future. We all know it's future, the bible tells this.

 

[Elin]

The timing is more of a question for me.

Have you seen this?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

show me where God promised that?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Romans 13:4b. . .But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Colossians 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh unpon the children of disobedience:

Now if someone wants to say that the "wrath of God" is not the same thing as the Tribulation period. . I would say what is poured out during the Tribulation period? . . .I would say God's anger, i.e. wrath!!! and go study Revelation.