Daniel is out of chronological order.

[Gifts]

I'd like to request a synopsis of the past 8 pages, I don't want to read through all of the bickering.

Therapon, if you think you know something important could you cut to the chase? If you truly think it is important then you ought to tell us what it is. I won't reject your theory offhandedly so there is no need to lead me on and ply me with questions.
What is your conclusion and reasoning behind it?

 

[zone]

still, you'll have Therapon's disciples now come to muddy the thread and rescue him from answering these questions.
welcome to the world of Dual Covenant/any messiah will do "theology"

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I just want to ask something. . Was there a time "Before faith came"?. . .

Those that died and were buried by the time Jesus Christ came, died and resurrected - bringing about that "faith through him". Can they have "faith in Jesus Christ" being that they are dead and buried? or will they be judged by their faith in God and their works according to the Law since that's all they knew?

I do not want to start any arguments, PLEASE. . . Just Thoughts . . .

 

[Ariel82]

Romans 2 verse 29

 

[doulos]

still, you'll have Therapon's disciples now come to muddy the thread and rescue him from answering these questions.
welcome to the world of Dual Covenant/any messiah will do "theology"

Zone if you would be intellectually honest in evaluating the post I made you could not possibly say any Messiah will do without intentionally misrepresenting what was said. Even if you disagree and believe the fulness of the gentiles has come in and the view is in error, you would still be misrepresenting what was said. Considering that there are still gentiles coming to the Lord daily then obviously the fulness of the gentiles has not come in yet.

 

[Ariel82]

I just want to ask something. . Was there a time "Before faith came"?. . .

Those that died and were buried by the time Jesus Christ came, died and resurrected - bringing about that "faith through him". Can they have "faith in Jesus Christ" being that they are dead and buried? or will they be judged by their faith in God and their works according to the Law since that's all they knew?

I do not want to start any arguments, PLEASE. . . Just Thoughts . . .

The prophets saw jesus in the future they called him their redeemer by faith not works was Abraham saved

 

[1still_waters]

Therapon.
Another question.
It's most likely my last..

Are Jews today who openly deny Jesus Christ of Nazareth as identified in the New Testament still saved?

 

[zone]

If a Jew, quickened by the Holy Spirit that Yeshua is his Messiah, rejects that basic truth, then he is just as lost as any Gentile who does so, in fact, that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Please answer each.

1.Can a Jew be quickened by the Spirit even if they reject Jesus as Messiah?

2.Are unbelieving Jews saved?

3. Are Jews who are quickened by the spirit, but who still rejects Jesus, saved?

Therapon.
Another question.
It's most likely my last..

Are Jews today who openly deny Jesus Christ of Nazareth as identified in the New Testament still saved?

BUMP FOR THERAPON

 

[Therapon]

Disagree that they r one of two witnesses

Well, Rev 1:20 states that candlesticks are churches and Rev 11:4 states that the two witnersses are candlesticks, so the two witneses are two churches. Then Rerv 11:4 also states that the two witnesses are two olive trees and Romans 11:24-25 state that two olive trees are the Jewish people and the Gentile believers. Romans 22:28-29 goes on to say . . .

"As touching the gospel, they are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

I try not to editorialize Scripture, just believe it, though I'm abysmally poor at getting others to agree.

 

[mark54]

I just want to ask something. . Was there a time "Before faith came"?. . .

Those that died and were buried by the time Jesus Christ came, died and resurrected - bringing about that "faith through him". Can they have "faith in Jesus Christ" being that they are dead and buried? or will they be judged by their faith in God and their works according to the Law since that's all they knew?

I do not want to start any arguments, PLEASE. . . Just Thoughts . . .

My understanding is(and I am no expert on this) no one could attain Heaven without Christ's death at Calvary, this would include everyone who lived in OT times. Peter tells us that Christ went to preach to the Spirits of those who had died when he was crucified. But please don't ask for further elaboration!

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]After being made alive,[SUP][[/SUP][SUP]d[/SUP][SUP]][/SUP] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— [SUP]20 [/SUP]to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built
1Peter3:18&19

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.
1Peter4:6

 

[cfultz3]

I just want to ask something. . Was there a time "Before faith came"?. . .

Those that died and were buried by the time Jesus Christ came, died and resurrected - bringing about that "faith through him". Can they have "faith in Jesus Christ" being that they are dead and buried? or will they be judged by their faith in God and their works according to the Law since that's all they knew?

I do not want to start any arguments, PLEASE. . . Just Thoughts . . .

Those under the Law received their righteousness under the Law, but none were found justified by the Law. All those under the Law received just punishment of death (separation from God) and had to wait for their Messiah. And when Christ died, along with that thief, they both went to Paradise that day and those righteous of the Law then received their justification (found not guilty) by their Deliverer. They, the righteous of the Law, were judged by their faith they had in their coming Messiah, which faith delivered them from Hades.

 

[zone]

If a Jew, quickened by the Holy Spirit that Yeshua is his Messiah, rejects that basic truth, then he is just as lost as any Gentile who does so, in fact, that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Please answer each.

1.Can a Jew be quickened by the Spirit even if they reject Jesus as Messiah?

2.Are unbelieving Jews saved?

3. Are Jews who are quickened by the spirit, but who still rejects Jesus, saved?

Therapon.
Another question.
It's most likely my last..

Are Jews today who openly deny Jesus Christ of Nazareth as identified in the New Testament still saved?

please leave these questions where Therapon can see them and respond

 

[doulos]

please leave these questions where Therapon can see them and respond

Please be intellectually honest when evaluating the views of others so that you don't misrepresent what they say.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The prophets saw jesus in the future they called him their redeemer by faith not works was Abraham saved

Noah was saved by his faith in God's promises to him and because of his obedience to do what God asked him to do. Abraham was saved by his faith in God's promises to him and because of his obedience to do what God asked him to do - right? I am sure there are a lot more whose faith in God's promises to them and because of their obedience to do what God asked them to do who will have that to their account. . .They believed God and it was accounted unto them for righteousness. They saw Jesus in the future but the new birth wasn't available until after Christ's ascension.

Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions UNTIL the SEED to whom the promise referred had come. . . .Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that WE might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. So in Christ Jesus you are all the children of God through faith. . . .

Those that believed God's promises, believed that God was their redeemer, their savior, their buckler, their deliverer, as the OT scriptures attest but we know that all OT believers were under the obligation to follow the law. . . .I believe that they will be judged accordingly. . .And then again, I could be wrong!

 

[zone]

If a Jew, quickened by the Holy Spirit that Yeshua is his Messiah, rejects that basic truth, then he is just as lost as any Gentile who does so, in fact, that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Please answer each.

1.Can a Jew be quickened by the Spirit even if they reject Jesus as Messiah?

2.Are unbelieving Jews saved?

3. Are Jews who are quickened by the spirit, but who still rejects Jesus, saved?

Therapon.
Another question.
It's most likely my last..

Are Jews today who openly deny Jesus Christ of Nazareth as identified in the New Testament still saved?

i'll just keep posting Still's questions....regardless of distractions.
Therapon will hopefully just answer.

 

[Ariel82]

He has u on ignore zone...

 

[Ariel82]

Please answer each.

1.Can a Jew be quickened by the Spirit even if they reject Jesus as Messiah?

2.Are unbelieving Jews saved?

3. Are Jews who are quickened by the spirit, but who still rejects Jesus, saved?

Here..bump.....

 

[Ariel82]

Therapon.
Another question.
It's most likely my last..

Are Jews today who openly deny Jesus Christ of Nazareth as identified in the New Testament still saved?

bump...i am out..nit alll

 

[cfultz3]

nite ariel, sleep well.

 

[Therapon]

Therapon.
Another question.It's most likely my last..

Are Jews today who openly deny Jesus Christ of Nazareth as identified in the New Testament still saved?

Wonder why I feel like Peter before Gamaliel? <wry smile> but I am here for the same reason, “the hope of Israel.” God opened His Word anew after the new nation of Israel was founded in 1948 and Jerusalem was freed of Gentile control in 1967, but few want to believe it.

Several times in earlier posts I have proven Scripturally that the Jews of the Christian era are one of the two witnesses of Revelation 11:3-4. Revelation 1:20 states that candlesticks are churches, and 11:4 states that the two witnesses are candlesticks, so the two witnesses are two churches. The other descriptor in 11:4 states that the two witnesses are two olive trees. Romans 11:24-25 states that two olive trees of the Christian era of the Jewish people and the Gentile believers. So then we have to ask, can one of God’s two witnesses to the Christian era be lost? Romans 11:28-29 state this . . .

“As touching the gospel, they (the Jews) are enemies for your sake: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sake. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”

Menachem Begin was a prisoner in the Warsaw ghetto. He saw his parents and 500 other Jews driven into the Warsaw River and gunned down by the Nazis. As their blood stained the river red, they had their hands raised toward heaven and were singing that touching Jewish hymn, “Oh, how we love our Messiah and long for His appearance.” They weren’t praying to a tree or some false idol, but to the same Messiah I love with my whole heart. Right then, the Holy Spirit softened my heart. We are going to see in glory with us, those 500 Jews, and the millions more the church has persecuted throughout the Christian era.

No, I don’t believe all Jews are saved, anymore than I believe every Gentile who walks through a church door is saved, but I certainly believe that those Jews who have the “circumcision of the heart” are as saved as you and I because Romans 11:28-29 says so.

My posts aren’t attacked because I don’t believe the Bible, but because I place God’s Word above the traditions of men.