Who do you think Killed Jesus?

[wind]

where is this list of adam's children?

. . .this is not at all where i thought you were going with this (or perhaps i misunderstand).

one thought does come to mind, it seems to me that if God intended for Christ to produce Seed beyond Himself upon this earth then that is exactly what He would have done.

 

[wind]

to me the Jesus you describe with seed that dies within him in threeday is more of a visitor to this land - like an alien race - a superior race, true but not Supreme. Not God. So, which is it?

 

[Domenic]

so you are saying that adam and eve should not have "been fruitful and multiplied" in the sense of having earthly human children? no procreation on our part?

No I am not saying that?

 

[DinoDillinger]

Isaiah
53 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

The Father sacrificed(killed) Him, neither the Jews nor the Romans can take the payment for the lawless deeds committed.

Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written,Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

 

[Elin]

I‘m a writer. I do years of research on subjects I write…even for fiction. One story I have been working on for the past several years, is the death of Jesus…who killed him” Some put it on the Jews, others the Romans.
Who do you think Killed Jesus?

Scripture is pretty clear who were the immediate cause of Jesus' death.

"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers. . .They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him. . ." (Ac 7:51-52)

That his coming to pay the penalty demanded by justice for sinners was a totally gratuitous, unsolicited and voluntary choice does not mean that the sinners for whom he offered his life therefore killed him.

"God presented him as a sacrifice. . ." (Ro 3:25).

The only ones guilty of killing Christ, apart from those who actually did so, are those who reject him, making them like the ones who killed him and who could not be brought to repentance while in their rejection (killing) of him. (Heb 6:6).

 

[Domenic]

to me the Jesus you describe with seed that dies within him in threeday is more of a visitor to this land - like an alien race - a superior race, true but not Supreme. Not God. So, which is it?

Jesus is the son of God, not an alien race...where did you pick that from?

 

[Elin]

Lets take a second step to the op. What was the reason Jesus had to die to save the human family from Adams sin?

The wages of sin is death. (Ro 6:23)

Death is the penalty for sin, which penalty Jesus paid for sinners. (Ro 3:25-26)

 

[Elin]

John 10:15,17-18
Just as my father knows me and I know the father, so I sacrifice my life for the sheep, the father loves me because I sacrifice my life so I may take it back again, NO ONE CAN TAKE MY LIFE FROM ME, I sacrifice it VOLUNTARILY. For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to, and also to take it up again. For this is what my father commanded

No one killed Jesus, He laid down His life for our sake. To say the Jews or Romans killed Him is completely irresponsible and against God's word and the work of the cross

Review God's word again, starting with Ac 7:51-52.

 

[PeteWaldo]

I‘m a writer. I do years of research on subjects I write…even for fiction. One story I have been working on for the past several years, is the death of Jesus…who killed him” Some put it on the Jews, others the Romans.
Who do you think Killed Jesus?

It is the sinful nature of mankind that killed Jesus. The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It is you and I that killed Jesus.

 

[Domenic]

No one is guilty of killing Jesus. That is why Jesus said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

ELIN IS CORRECT

John 10:17-18

"Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (NKJV)

 

[Grandpa]

Scripture is pretty clear who were the immediate cause of Jesus' death.

"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers. . .They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him. . ." (Ac 7:51-52)

That his coming to pay the penalty demanded by justice for sinners was a totally gratuitous, unsolicited and voluntary choice does not mean that the sinners for whom he offered his life therefore killed him.

"God presented him as a sacrifice. . ." (Ro 3:25).

The only ones guilty of killing Christ, apart from those who actually did so, are those who reject him, making them like the ones who killed him and who could not be brought to repentance while in their rejection (killing) of him. (Heb 6:6).

God presented Him as a sacrifice.

The Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.

Those who reject Christ are rejecting the sacrifice that God gave for them.

In effect, you and I have killed Christ, in that we have accepted His sacrifice for our atonement. We have used His Blood to make us pure. We couldn't come before God any other way...

Sorry about the sidetrack... carry on...

 

[wind]

When you said, "Jesus came here as a perfect human with out animal seed. If he had children, they would have never died. Jesus had within him a perfect human race. when Jesus died, that perfect unborn human race died for this one.
I cry every time I think about that. I wonder what they would have been like...even looked like. After three day, that seed in a dead body, would have all been dead."

It struck me as odd bc this is the very Christ who rose from the dead - who conquered the grave. If resurrection is possible and if nothing is impossible for God and if Christ is God then what of 3 days to the body or the seed?

maybe this is more of a contemplative, mournful exercise? a lesson in humility and gratitude?
i have taken moments in the past to reflect on how unworthy i am - we all are - of salvation.

that is why i questioned your idea of Christ. i feared it was veering off in some slightly heretical vein (to me) that i cannot at this time afford.

 

[RedTent]

What spiritual insight so many of you have. And what depths of spiritual meaning the bible has within it's words.

So often I want to shout at my brothers and sisters in Christ to probe deeper, look deeper, think of it through God's eyes.

This thread is opening up ways to probe deeper, it is a blessing.

 

[wind]

altho i do wonder why it happened the way it happened. we would not listen. could not understand. seemed time ran out. maybe it wouldnt have mattered. maybe we were never going to understand.
bc obviously we still dont

He came to teach us something and we missed the point altoghether.
You are correct there, i think. and yes, it is sad.

 

[Domenic]

What spiritual insight so many of you have. And what depths of spiritual meaning the bible has within it's words.

So often I want to shout at my brothers and sisters in Christ to probe deeper, look deeper, think of it through God's eyes.

This thread is opening up ways to probe deeper, it is a blessing.

Then is any body other than Red Tent ready to take this thread to a higher level?

 

[Bowman]

The Jews murdered Jesus...

I‘m a writer. I do years of research on subjects I write…even for fiction. One story I have been working on for the past several years, is the death of Jesus…who killed him” Some put it on the Jews, others the Romans.
Who do you think Killed Jesus?

Jesus addressing the Jews

υμεις εκ του πατρος του διαβολου εστε και τας επιθυμιας τουπατρος υμων θελετε ποιειν εκεινος ανθρωποκτονος ην απ αρχης και εν τη αληθειαουκ εστηκεν οτι ουκ εστιν αληθεια εν αυτω οταν λαλη το ψευδος εκ των ιδιωνλαλει οτι ψευστης εστιν και ο πατηρ αυτου εγω δε οτι την αληθειαν λεγω ουπιστευετε μοι

umeis ek tou patros tau diabolou este kai tas epithumias tou patros umōn thelete poiein ekeinos anthrōpoktonos ēn ap archēs kai en tē alētheia ouk estēken oti ouk estin alētheia en autō otan lalē to pseudos ek tōn idiōn lalei oti pseustēs estin kai ho patēr autou egō de oti tēn alētheian legō ou pisteuete moi

You are from the Devil as the father, and the lusts of your father you desire to do. That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth,because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. (John 8.44 – 45)


Here we have Jesus, Himself, proclaiming to the unbelieving Jews, in no uncertain terms, that they are from the Devil.

Jews who do not acknowledge Jesus as The Truthare doing the Devil’s work – they are following the Devil’s desires(epithumias), of which, he has been a murderer of man (anthrōpoktonos) from the very beginning.

Jesus had already rightly labeled Jews as murderers and liars long before they killed Him.









Peter to the Jews

ο θεος αβρααμ και ισαακ καιιακωβ ο θεος των πατερων ημων εδοξασεν τον παιδα αυτου ιησουν ον υμεις μενπαρεδωκατε και ηρνησασθε κατα προσωπον πιλατου κριναντος εκεινου απολυειν υμειςδε τον αγιον και δικαιον ηρνησασθε και ητησασθε ανδρα φονεα χαρισθηναι υμιν τονδε αρχηγον της ζωης απεκτεινατε ον ο θεος ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων ου ημεις μαρτυρεςεσμεν

ho theos abraam kai isaak kai iakōb ho theos tōn paterōn ēmōn edoxasen ton paida autou iēsoun on umeis men paredōkate kai ērnēsasthe kata prosōpon pilatou krinantos ekeinou apoluein umeis de ton agion kai dikaion ērnēsasthe kai ētēsasthe andra phonea charisthēnai umin ton de archēgon tēs zōēs apekteinate on ho theos ēgeiren ek nekrōn ou ēmeis martures esmen

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob,""the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom youdelivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decidedto set Him free. But you denied the Holyand Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And theOriginator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)

Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejectedand killed (apekteinate) Jesus.

Following the example of their father, the Devil, the Jewschose the release of a murderer over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life) – further proving that Jews prefer death over life.










Stephen to the Jewish Counsel

σκληροτραχηλοι και απεριτμητοι καρδιαις και τοις ωσιν υμειςαει τω πνευματι τω αγιω αντιπιπτετε ως οι πατερες υμων και υμεις τινα τωνπροφητων ουκ εδιωξαν οι πατερες υμων και απεκτειναν τους προκαταγγειλαντας περιτης ελευσεως του δικαιου ου νυν υμεις προδοται και φονεις εγενεσθε οιτινεςελαβετε τον νομον εις διαταγας αγγελων και ουκ εφυλαξατε

sklērotrachēloi kai aperitmētoi kardiais kai ōsin tois ōsin umeis aei tō pneumati tō agiō antipiptete ōs oi pateres umōn kai umeis tina tōn prophētōn ouk ediōxan oi pateres umōn kai apekteinan tous prokatangeilantas peri tēs eleuseōs tou dikaiou ou nun umeis prodotai kai phonies egenesthe oitines elabete ton nomon eis diatagas angelōn kai ouk ephulaxate

Obstinate and uncircumcised in heart and the ears, youalways resist the Holy Spirit as the fathers of you, and you. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? And they killed those who foretold concerning the coming of the Righteous One of whom now you have become betrayers and murderers. Who received the law by ordained messengers and did not keep. (Acts 7.51- 53)

Here we have Stephen addressing the Jewish Council, andtelling them straight-out, as guided by the Holy Spirit, that their forefathers persecuted and killed (apekteinan) the prophets that foretold of Jesus’ coming.

Now that Jesus has come, the Jews, keeping in lock-step with their forefathers, become murderers (phonies) themselves by killing Jesus,fulfilling Satan’s desires.

Observe that the Jews are bestowed with full creditfor murdering Jesus Christ.

Immediately after Stephen delivers his address to the Jewish Council, they prove him correct by murdering him in cold blood. Demonstrating that Jesus was right all along; the Jews are nothing but liars, murderers, followers of Satan.

 

[Ariel82]

I see everyone is playing Domenic's games of fiction.

I will simply say:

1. Adam had sex with Eve and gave birth to BOTH Cain and ABEL. they are the children of ADAM and Eve and not Eve and some fallen angel.

Genesis 4

Genesis 4

New King James Version (NKJV)


4 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the Lord.” [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel.

if Eve did have children from someone other than Adam, the BIBLE would have said it. this is in response to another thread that I don't feel like finding and posting the scriptures, but YOU need to read Genesis 4 and not try to claim that Genesis 5 somehow implies that Cain and Abel are not Adam's children. genesis 5 list the genealogy of NOAH and do not list Cain or Abel because, guess what? they are not his great great grandfather... SETH is. they are uncles, but STILL children of Adam and EVE.

2. Even before the fall of Adam and Eve, God wanted them to multiply and have children.

Genesis 1

[SUP]27 [/SUP]So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Have fun with your "fiction" stories.

 

[RedTent]

Re: The Jews murdered Jesus...

Jesus addressing the Jews
You are from the Devil as the father, and the lusts of your father you desire to do. That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth,because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me. (John 8.44 – 45)

Here we have Jesus, Himself, proclaiming to the unbelieving Jews, in no uncertain terms, that they are from the Devil.

Jews who do not acknowledge Jesus as The Truthare doing the Devil’s work – they are following the Devil’s desires(epithumias), of which, he has been a murderer of man (anthrōpoktonos) from the very beginning.

Jesus had already rightly labeled Jews as murderers and liars long before they killed Him.

Peter to the Jews

The "God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob,""the God of our fathers," glorified the Son of Him, Jesus, whom youdelivered up, and denied Him in the presence of Pilate, that one having decidedto set Him free. But you denied the Holyand Just One, and asked for a man, a murderer, to be granted to you. And theOriginator of Life you killed, whom God raised up from the dead, of which we are witnesses. (Acts 3.13 -15)

Here we have Peter declaring to the Jews that they rejectedand killed (apekteinate) Jesus.

Following the example of their father, the Devil, the Jewschose the release of a murderer over that of Jesus Christ (the very originator of Life) – further proving that Jews prefer death over life.

Stephen to the Jewish Counsel

Obstinate and uncircumcised in heart and the ears, youalways resist the Holy Spirit as the fathers of you, and you. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? And they killed those who foretold concerning the coming of the Righteous One of whom now you have become betrayers and murderers. Who received the law by ordained messengers and did not keep. (Acts 7.51- 53)

Here we have Stephen addressing the Jewish Council, andtelling them straight-out, as guided by the Holy Spirit, that their forefathers persecuted and killed (apekteinan) the prophets that foretold of Jesus’ coming.

Now that Jesus has come, the Jews, keeping in lock-step with their forefathers, become murderers (phonies) themselves by killing Jesus,fulfilling Satan’s desires.

Observe that the Jews are bestowed with full creditfor murdering Jesus Christ.

Immediately after Stephen delivers his address to the Jewish Council, they prove him correct by murdering him in cold blood. Demonstrating that Jesus was right all along; the Jews are nothing but liars, murderers, followers of Satan.

Here we have a Christian explainining the entire bible's explantion of Jews in this post! Here in a few scriptures is all the answer to who killed Christ. I don't think so!

Like the six blind men who went to see the elephant. Each of them had felt one part, each said they knew all about the elphant. One said an elephant is like a tree, another a wall, another like a spear, another a snake, another like a fan, another said like a rope.

What is God like?

 

[Hal51]

Wow very good post!

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I‘m a writer. I do years of research on subjects I write…even for fiction. One story I have been working on for the past several years, is the death of Jesus…who killed him” Some put it on the Jews, others the Romans.
Who do you think Killed Jesus?

Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve. And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captians, how he might betray him unto them. Luke 22:3,4

And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him. John 13:2

But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 1 Corinthians 1:7,8