Daniel is out of chronological order.

[eternally-gratefull]

Let me ask you three questions that only require yes or no answers . . .

1. Are the two witnesses of Revelation11:3-4 called two candlesticks and two olive trees? Yes or no?
2. Does Revelation 1:20 state that candlesticks are churches? Yes or no?
3. Does Romans 11:24-25 show two olive trees to be Jewish and Gentile peoples? Yes or no?

Sorry buddy. Your trick questions do not help you.

two PEOPLE died. Two PEOPLE lay on the street for the world to see. Two People rise from the dead. Two PEOPLE assend into heaven.

it does not matter if they are called candlesticks or anything else.

Symbolising prophesy is a danger.. thats why we have so many beliefs today.

There is your proof, but getting you to accept it would be daunting task, indeed.

There is no proof unless we symbolize prophesy.. WHy did LL prophesies about Christ Literally come true. About the 4 gentile kingdoms LITERALLY come true.. why do we all of a sudden symbolize prophesy. doing this we can make scripture say anything we want. WHich people do.. which is why we have so many belief systems.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm cracking up, there is only one God and one sacrificial lamb. Since Jews worship the God of the Old Testament, they worship the same God we do; the only difference between us being, they are looking for their Messiah to appear for His 1st time while we stians are looking for His 2nd. Some people force Scripture or history to fit their doctrine, just don't be one of them.

Thats like saying Islam worships the same God. they worship the God of abraham. If they worshiped the God of the OT. they would accept Christ, Christ IS THE GOD of the OT

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I never said they were not people “individuals”

You misread what I was talking about “again”

then explain it.. so I get it right.

 

[jb]

eternally-gratefull wrote...

the two witnesses are two people. Who are killed, left on the streets (off Jerusalem, Rev 11v8, 14v8, 17v18) for the world to see. And risen from the dead and ascend into heaven...

I knew the penny would drop!

 

[doulos]

2 olive trees?

The gentile believers are broken out of what? The wild olive tree, so we have one tree. And they are grafted into what? The good olive tree which is a second tree. So even though all believers are grafted into one tree they originate not from one but from 2 trees.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[cfultz3]

Are you saying the God of Islam is Jesus? The jehova Isreal is looking for is the king. they still do not realise they need a redeemer. if they did, they would find CHrist.

Jehovah is the personal name of God, often seen in the OT as "the LORD" because the Jews did not want to accidentally say His name in vain..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The fact that the abominable dome of the rock with it’s blasphemous inscriptions still stands on the temple mount does not mean Jerusalem is not under the control of a Jewish Government.
Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
The Gentiles were only allowed to control Jerusalem until the 42 months were over in 67 when the Jews regained control of Jerusalem. The temple mount where the abominable dome of the rock stands is in the court given to the gentiles and as a result it may (or may not) stand until the Lord’s return. God gave that area to the gentiles. Aren’t the gifts of God irrevocable?

You have major problems with this interpretation. Plus. God gave it to Isreal. He allws the gentiles to control and desolate it because of their sin. He has since babylon. Isreal has not had control of the city since they were taken away. Under all 4 gentile kingdoms. They were only allowed to live there and build a temple. The future roman empire will ALLOW them to rebuild a temple.

Israel will not have control until the repent. Lev 26 proves this. Isreal is sin sin. God is not going to give it back to a sinful nation.

The two witnesses are two candlesticks and two olive trees. If 7 candlesticks are seven churches then two candlesticks are two churches. Churches aren’t buildings but groups of believers. Which two groups of believers, the believers from the two olive trees. The gentile belivers broken out of the wild olive tree that are grafted in amongst the Jews the good olive tree. While both the believing Jews and Gentiles are grafted into the same tree they originate from 2 different olive trees. So our two churches are the Jew and Gentile believers if we accept what the unchanging word of God tells us.

They are two people. the events will literally happen. There are candlesticks and olive trees because they are two people who have repented, thus saved Isreal.. They represent the church, and Israel (true)

Did Abraham and Moses worship a different Jehovah? Wasn’t Christ slain from the foundation of the world?

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world

Abraham and Moses worshiped the same God David did, who realised no law would save anyone.. But God would send a redeemer. but only through repentance and faith could they be saved.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jehovah is the personal name of God, often seen in the OT as "the LORD" because the Jews did not want to accidentally say His name in vain..

yes I know. it is the hebrew word. the Arab equivalent is Allah

 

[doulos]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying. Would you mind explaining?

1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

God revealed Himself to the Old Covenant saints through the Old Covenant He reveals Himself to New Covenant saints through the New Covenant. Same God just revealed through different covenants.

 

[cfultz3]

yes I know. it is the hebrew word. the Arab equivalent is Allah

I am sorry, but I am not understanding. How would worshiping Jehovah be equivalent to worshiping allah?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

God revealed Himself to the Old Covenant saints through the Old Covenant He reveals Himself to New Covenant saints through the New Covenant. Same God just revealed through different covenants.

this is fine. But ALL men (old or new) were saved the same way,, faith. And most of those people who were led by moses.. are prolly not in heaven today. they rejected Gods promises and him.. and did not even enter the promise land because of their unbelief

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am sorry, but I am not understanding. How would worshiping Jehovah be equivalent to worshiping allah?

Jehovah was the god of abraham right?

The jews say they worship him. Islam say they worship him. And Christians worship him.

now of these three. which are saved,, and why are they saved (And I would say not all of them are saved)

 

[zone]

The two witnesses are two candlesticks and two olive trees.

If 7 candlesticks are seven churches then two candlesticks are two churches.

Churches aren’t buildings but groups of believers.

Which two groups of believers, the believers from the two olive trees.

The gentile belivers broken out of the wild olive tree that are grafted in amongst the Jews the good olive tree.

While both the believing Jews and Gentiles are grafted into the same tree they originate from 2 different olive trees.

So our two churches are the Jew and Gentile believers if we accept what the unchanging word of God tells us.

 

[cfultz3]

1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

God revealed Himself to the Old Covenant saints through the Old Covenant He reveals Himself to New Covenant saints through the New Covenant. Same God just revealed through different covenants.

Oh trust me, I know He has always been the same God. Thanks for replying.

I was asking what Ellis was saying because he said don't become of one of them in reference to me saying that Jesus is Jehovah when EG said that they worship a different Jehovah.

 

[cfultz3]

Jehovah was the god of abraham right?

The jews say they worship him. Islam say they worship him. And Christians worship him.

now of these three. which are saved,, and why are they saved (And I would say not all of them are saved)

Jehovah is God and need not to be based on one's faith for Him to be Jehovah.
We Christians believe in the same God as the Jews, whose name is Jehovah.
The Muslims worship a god which was once a wooden god worshiped in a village. That wooden god says that there is no Son

Salvation comes from Jehovah (the LORD is my salvation) and no other.

Jehovah is the Savior of those of faith.

 

[zone]

1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

God revealed Himself to the Old Covenant saints through the Old Covenant He reveals Himself to New Covenant saints through the New Covenant. Same God just revealed through different covenants.

Galatians 4
Example of Hagar and Sarah
21Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise.

Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants.

One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia;e she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written,

“Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”

28Now you,f brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now.

30But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”

31So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jehovah is God and need not to be based on one's faith for Him to be Jehovah.
We Christians believe in the same God as the Jews, whose name is Jehovah.
The Muslims worship a god which was once a wooden god worshiped in a village. That wooden god says that there is no Son

Salvation comes from Jehovah (the LORD is my salvation) and no other.

Jehovah is the Savior of those of faith.

Your not understanding me

Isreal today says they worship jehovah. Jehovah came to save the. they reject him. thus they DO NOT WORSHIP the TRUE JEHOVAH..They worship there interpretation of who they think he is.

Same with Islam

Same with false christianity.

worship of jehovah is worship of Christ. there is NO OTHER WAY.

Any other worship is a worship of a false God. or Idolotry

does this help you understand what I am saying, or am I still confusing you??lol

 

[doulos]

Thats like saying Islam worships the same God. they worship the God of abraham. If they worshiped the God of the OT. they would accept Christ, Christ IS THE GOD of the OT

They only claim to worship the God of Abraham. In reality when THE false prophet mohammad started his satanically inspired anti religion religion he chose only one of the 360 false Gods worshipped by the pagans at that time. The god he chose was the moon god allah, not the God of Abraham.

Have you ever noticed how the pagans worshipped the moon god at the kabah. Isn't that where muslims go to worship allah?

Remember God has a Son, allah has no son, they can't be the same.

 

[zone]

We Christians believe in the same God as the Jews, whose name is Jehovah.
The Muslims worship a god which was once a wooden god worshiped in a village. That wooden god says that there is no Son

READ "26 REASONS" AND LEARN:

WHY JUDAISM HAS CONSISTENTLY REJECTED THE FAITH CLAIMS OF CHRISTIANITY FOR OVER 2,000 YEARS

DOES THE JEWISH BIBLE WARN AGAINST JESUS?

WHY JESUS WAS A FALSE PROPHET

JESUS WAS NOT "PERFECT" AND COMMITTED SIN

WHY JESUS' TEACHINGS AND BEHAVIOR WERE MORALLY PROBLEMATIC

WHY JESUS DID NOT QUALIFY AS THE JEWISH MESSIAH

DID JESUS BELIEVE HE WAS GOD?

WHO INVENTED CHRISTIANITY

WHO REALLY IS THE SON OF GOD?

WHAT DOES THE JEWISH BIBLE SAY ABOUT HOW GOD FORGIVES SIN?

WHAT IS THE JEWISH SALVATION PROGRAM?

14 WAYS A JEW MAY LOSE THEIR SHARE IN THE WORLD TO COME

26Reasons.com ~ 26 Reasons Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus? By Asher Norman < click

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They only claim to worship the God of Abraham. In reality when THE false prophet mohammad started his satanically inspired anti religion religion he chose only one of the 360 false Gods worshipped by the pagans at that time. The god he chose was the moon god allah, not the God of Abraham.

Have you ever noticed how the pagans worshipped the moon god at the kabah. Isn't that where muslims go to worship allah?

Remember God has a Son, allah has no son, they can't be the same.

The same can be said of Modern Jews. If they worship the God of Abraham, they would have worshiped Christ. Scripture says the prophets of old (including Abraham) looked for the day when Christ came.. saw them affar off. No one who does not worship Christ worships the God of Abraham. NO ONE!

they can call him by that name all they want, it does not matter what they call him,