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This subject keeps getting raised in other threads, but then buried, so I thought it would be constructive to dedicate a thread to it. Nobody can deny the physical matter of fact of Jews ruling Israel today. History reveals that 1200 years of Islamic rule had rendered Israel a denuded, desertified, depopulated, desolate, wasteland. Then 200 years ago Jews began to return to Israel, to develop what has become one of the most vibrant and technologically advanced economies in the world, while that tiny little strip of land became a global geopolitical focus.
It's constructive to begin this dialog by setting aside the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinian". The Philistines have been gone for thousands of years. From a Christian perspective there is really no such place as "Palestine" because the Gospel refers to that land as "Israel", and never as Palestine.
Mat 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.
As Walid Shoebat put it, “One day during the 1960’s I went to bed a Jordanian Muslim, and when I woke up the next morning, I was informed that I was now a Palestinian Muslim, and that I was no longer a Jordanian Muslim.”
The term "Palestine" was first coined by a 2nd century Roman ruler, in place of the name Israel, to insult the Jews after he had vanquished them. Thus what began as an insult to Jews, was perhaps used sporadically, and later popularized by the British and is today perpetuated by the secular politically correct media.
The tragic effect of the term - whether intended or not - is that it obscures the identities of the actors in the Israeli theater. This helps governments put forward the hopelessly naive and wishful idea that they are not at war against Islam, but rather at war against a word, or against a method - of terrorism. Yet even if this were possible that would still pit them against Islam, since the false Muhammad was one of the most consummate - as well as conveniently self-admitted - terrorists in history:
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
While reports from the pop-media and many others, create the false impression that it is a conflict between Jews and non-Jews, that is easily dispelled:
Wikipedia article: "In contrast, a poll of 507 Arab-Israelis conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 found that 75 percent profess support for Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state which guarantees equal rights for minorities. Israeli Arab support for a constitution in general was 88 percent.[31]"
Which makes perfect sense and would be difficult to argue. What non-Muslim Israeli would want Israel turned into just another Middle East sharia law ruled, black stone idol venerating, multiple wife and concubine beating, little girl circumcising (FGM), fathers-"honor killing"-daughters and husbands-wives, Christian and Jew beheading, despotic, totalitarian, imperialistic conquering Islamic slave state?
Thus the two sides in conflict are the same as they have been for 1400 years - at least from an Islamic perspective. The dar al-Salaam VS the dar al-Harb. The "house of peace" VS the "house of war". If you are a Muslim you are in the house of peace, but if you are a non-Muslim you are in the house of war, and while you may not be at war against Islam, Islam has been at war against you for 1400 years.
Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.....
The fact of the matter is there are 1.5 billion antichrists in the world today - that's 1/4 of mankind - that are commanded by the false prophet Muhammad to conquer all kingdoms, and subjugate all people, to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, DENYING the Son of God, and REJECTING the blood He shed for us all, which are articles of their faith in Muhammad alone. The command of conquest and subjugation cannot be reasonably argued in the light of Islam's own books, 1400 years of Islamic history.
JIHAD
Nor can it be denied in the light of the present day reality, of over 20,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11. The vast majority of which, of course, have nothing whatsoever to do with Jews. And then there's the so-called "Arab Spring" prelude to nuclear winter, with the Muslim Brotherhood consolidating power and beginning the implementation of Sharia law in countries like Egypt, that had in better days been quite cosmopolitan. This while Christians are persecuted and churches burned.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
Christians have been turning the other cheek to Muhammad's true followers throughout much of Africa, as well as the rest of the world, with predictable results:
united copts .org - Statement by Father Juan Carlos Martos cmf
Since the penalty for leaving Islam is death, and in 53 (mostly Islamic) countries around the world today the Gospel and/or Christian materials are banned or restricted, much of the world is given over to virtually impenetrable darkness.
AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."
Europe is rapidly being conquered, as a result of Islam filling the void created, by secularization and the prophesied apostasy:
"Muslims in Europe are increasingly converting empty Christian churches into mosques.
The proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Europe."
"As Islam replaces Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe, more and more churches are set to become mosques, which increasingly serve not only as religious institutions but also function as the foundational political building blocks for the establishment of separate, parallel Muslim communities in Europe that are based on Islamic Sharia law."
When global secular powers compelled Israel to abandon control over Gaza, in exchange for yet another false promise of peace, could any other result of Islamic rule have been expected other than the beginning of subjugation and dhimmitude of Christians to Islam?
"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law
"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians
Make no mistake. The conflict in Israel is the same as most everywhere we find murder, mayhem and misery around the world today (with a little of it perpetrated by communists which is another doctrine that cannot stand the light of the truth of the Gospel).
The term "Palestinian" is nothing more than a smokescreen that serves to mask that the conflict is:
Israeli Muslims (as well as the rest of Middle East Muslims) VS Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs.
Islam VS the non-Islamic world.
Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Prophet Genocide - Every Jew must be murdered - YouTube
When Muslims tell you Islam is a peaceful religion, in spite of 1400 years of Islamic history and the commands in their own books, they are wishfully ignorant and hopelessly uninformed, or simply leaving the heavy lifting to their fundamental - true followers of Muhammad that do as Muhammad did and commanded his followers to do - brethren. The peacenicks are the only true "radicals" as they are considered apostate and may even be subject to punishment under the law of renegades and infidels. Either that or those that suggest Islam is a religion of peace are engaging in taqiyyah, or lying in the way of Allah.
Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Surah 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."
From a Christian perspective it would be absurd to suggest, that the restoration of Jews to Israel is nothing more than some freaky accident, that happened in a spiritual vacuum. Let alone that Jews remained a group through 2500 years of being scattered among the Gentile nations.
Matthew Henry: "If God will build Jerusalem for the people and their comfort, they must inhabit it for him and his glory. The promises and privileges with which God's people are blessed, should engage us to join them, whatever it costs us."
Isaac Newton “Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”
I would appreciate it if members began their replies as to whether you believe the restoration of Jews to Israel is of the Lord, as millions believe was prophesied - and as Christians anticipated long before that restoration began to take place - or whether you believe it is of Satan, and why, or offer another alternative.
It's constructive to begin this dialog by setting aside the terms "Palestine" and "Palestinian". The Philistines have been gone for thousands of years. From a Christian perspective there is really no such place as "Palestine" because the Gospel refers to that land as "Israel", and never as Palestine.
Mat 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.
As Walid Shoebat put it, “One day during the 1960’s I went to bed a Jordanian Muslim, and when I woke up the next morning, I was informed that I was now a Palestinian Muslim, and that I was no longer a Jordanian Muslim.”
The term "Palestine" was first coined by a 2nd century Roman ruler, in place of the name Israel, to insult the Jews after he had vanquished them. Thus what began as an insult to Jews, was perhaps used sporadically, and later popularized by the British and is today perpetuated by the secular politically correct media.
The tragic effect of the term - whether intended or not - is that it obscures the identities of the actors in the Israeli theater. This helps governments put forward the hopelessly naive and wishful idea that they are not at war against Islam, but rather at war against a word, or against a method - of terrorism. Yet even if this were possible that would still pit them against Islam, since the false Muhammad was one of the most consummate - as well as conveniently self-admitted - terrorists in history:
Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
While reports from the pop-media and many others, create the false impression that it is a conflict between Jews and non-Jews, that is easily dispelled:
Wikipedia article: "In contrast, a poll of 507 Arab-Israelis conducted by the Israeli Democracy Institute in 2007 found that 75 percent profess support for Israel's status as a Jewish and democratic state which guarantees equal rights for minorities. Israeli Arab support for a constitution in general was 88 percent.[31]"
Which makes perfect sense and would be difficult to argue. What non-Muslim Israeli would want Israel turned into just another Middle East sharia law ruled, black stone idol venerating, multiple wife and concubine beating, little girl circumcising (FGM), fathers-"honor killing"-daughters and husbands-wives, Christian and Jew beheading, despotic, totalitarian, imperialistic conquering Islamic slave state?
Thus the two sides in conflict are the same as they have been for 1400 years - at least from an Islamic perspective. The dar al-Salaam VS the dar al-Harb. The "house of peace" VS the "house of war". If you are a Muslim you are in the house of peace, but if you are a non-Muslim you are in the house of war, and while you may not be at war against Islam, Islam has been at war against you for 1400 years.
Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.....
The fact of the matter is there are 1.5 billion antichrists in the world today - that's 1/4 of mankind - that are commanded by the false prophet Muhammad to conquer all kingdoms, and subjugate all people, to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, DENYING the Son of God, and REJECTING the blood He shed for us all, which are articles of their faith in Muhammad alone. The command of conquest and subjugation cannot be reasonably argued in the light of Islam's own books, 1400 years of Islamic history.
JIHAD
Nor can it be denied in the light of the present day reality, of over 20,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11. The vast majority of which, of course, have nothing whatsoever to do with Jews. And then there's the so-called "Arab Spring" prelude to nuclear winter, with the Muslim Brotherhood consolidating power and beginning the implementation of Sharia law in countries like Egypt, that had in better days been quite cosmopolitan. This while Christians are persecuted and churches burned.
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
Christians have been turning the other cheek to Muhammad's true followers throughout much of Africa, as well as the rest of the world, with predictable results:
united copts .org - Statement by Father Juan Carlos Martos cmf
Since the penalty for leaving Islam is death, and in 53 (mostly Islamic) countries around the world today the Gospel and/or Christian materials are banned or restricted, much of the world is given over to virtually impenetrable darkness.
AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."
Europe is rapidly being conquered, as a result of Islam filling the void created, by secularization and the prophesied apostasy:
"Muslims in Europe are increasingly converting empty Christian churches into mosques.
The proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Europe."
"As Islam replaces Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe, more and more churches are set to become mosques, which increasingly serve not only as religious institutions but also function as the foundational political building blocks for the establishment of separate, parallel Muslim communities in Europe that are based on Islamic Sharia law."
When global secular powers compelled Israel to abandon control over Gaza, in exchange for yet another false promise of peace, could any other result of Islamic rule have been expected other than the beginning of subjugation and dhimmitude of Christians to Islam?
"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law
"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians
Make no mistake. The conflict in Israel is the same as most everywhere we find murder, mayhem and misery around the world today (with a little of it perpetrated by communists which is another doctrine that cannot stand the light of the truth of the Gospel).
The term "Palestinian" is nothing more than a smokescreen that serves to mask that the conflict is:
Israeli Muslims (as well as the rest of Middle East Muslims) VS Israeli Jews, Christians and non-Muslim Arabs.
Islam VS the non-Islamic world.
Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Prophet Genocide - Every Jew must be murdered - YouTube
When Muslims tell you Islam is a peaceful religion, in spite of 1400 years of Islamic history and the commands in their own books, they are wishfully ignorant and hopelessly uninformed, or simply leaving the heavy lifting to their fundamental - true followers of Muhammad that do as Muhammad did and commanded his followers to do - brethren. The peacenicks are the only true "radicals" as they are considered apostate and may even be subject to punishment under the law of renegades and infidels. Either that or those that suggest Islam is a religion of peace are engaging in taqiyyah, or lying in the way of Allah.
Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
Surah 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."
From a Christian perspective it would be absurd to suggest, that the restoration of Jews to Israel is nothing more than some freaky accident, that happened in a spiritual vacuum. Let alone that Jews remained a group through 2500 years of being scattered among the Gentile nations.
Matthew Henry: "If God will build Jerusalem for the people and their comfort, they must inhabit it for him and his glory. The promises and privileges with which God's people are blessed, should engage us to join them, whatever it costs us."
Isaac Newton “Hence I observe these things, first that the restauration of the Jewish nation so much spoken of by the old Prophets respects not the few Jews who were converted in the Apostles days, but the dispersed nation of the unbelieving Jews to be converted in the end when the fullness of the Gentiles shall enter, that is when the Gospel (upon the fall of Babylon) shall begin to be preached to all nations. Secondly that the prophecies of Isaiah described above by being here cited by the Apostle is limited to respect the time of the future conversion and restitution of the Jewish Nation, and thirdly that the humour which has long reigned among the Christians of boasting our selves against the Jews, and insulting over them for their not believing, is reprehended by the Apostle for high –mindedness and self-conceipt, and much more is our using them despightfully, Pharisaicall and impious”
I would appreciate it if members began their replies as to whether you believe the restoration of Jews to Israel is of the Lord, as millions believe was prophesied - and as Christians anticipated long before that restoration began to take place - or whether you believe it is of Satan, and why, or offer another alternative.
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unto this day.