The antichrist

[Anonimous]

4He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.5Don’t you remember that I told you about all this when I was with you? 6And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. 7For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. 8Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, but the Lord Jesus will kill him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by the splendor of his coming.
9This man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. 10He will use every kind of evil deception to fool those on their way to destruction, because they refuse to love and accept the truth that would save them. 11So God will cause them to be greatly deceived, and they will believe these lies. 12Then they will be condemned for enjoying evil rather than believing the truth.

If the antichrist is simply a false religion or system how could a system claim it is above all religions if it is a religion that represents. This would be just plain ignorant. Satan had been proud from the start. This was his downfall.

 

[Anonimous]

"begin to fall away"??? Are you kidding?

Try this audio of a Joel Osteen - Paul David Washer comparison:
SermonAudio.com - Media Player

"Muslims in Europe are increasingly converting empty Christian churches into mosques.
The proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Europe."

"As Islam replaces Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe, more and more churches are set to become mosques, which increasingly serve not only as religious institutions but also function as the foundational political building blocks for the establishment of separate, parallel Muslim communities in Europe that are based on Islamic Sharia law."
Falling Away or Apostasy

How about the "International Interfaith Council"? Look at the exercise in religious pluralism advanced on their website at International Interfaith Council. Their list of "Council Members" includes several Christians. When we click on the link to their webpage "Three Holy Books" we find listed the "Qur'an" "Torah" and "Bible", which is peculiar enough, since the Torah is included in the Christian Bible. When you click on "Bible" it is the 16th century Muslim forgery of the Gospel of Barnabas!
RELIGIOUS PLURALISM

Or how about the Pope and Vatican council:
"3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth (5), who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees....."

That's how they describe folks that must DISbelieve the crucifixion of Christ, DENY the Son of God, and REJECT the blood of the Lamb of God, as articles of faith in the false prophet Muhammad.

No no no. I am full aware the falling away is happening even now. I'm not too ignorant. You would have to be a grade A moron not to see that. What I meant is that there will a falling away en masse. The big falling away. I have seen Joel and agree with you. I have seen his whimpy soggy gospel of prosperity as well. He is a coward who will not tell people they are in need of forgiveness. He says it is not his job.

I am also aware of the other things you mention.

You can not turn on a "christian" program without seeing this stuff happening.

 

[PeteWaldo]

In would like to point out that even the Muslims are looking for their Mahdi who is supposed to come amidst disaterous times to lead them into being rulers of the world.

So unless you are going to credit Muhammad as being a true prophet, that should serve as a warning to expect anything but and individual. It is a compelling reason to rethink a "The" "Antichrist" - particularly considering there are 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone.

They are looking and waiting for a literal person to lead them to this victory. If you believe Islam is as powerful as they say...and it is powerful, no arguement there...people will still want to stand with a SOMEONE. Not a THING.

They have been standing with him for 1400 years. The false prophet Muhammad.

When the time comes, we will not be able to stand strong and faithful because of an idea or thology. We will only be able to stand firm untyil the end because of a Person.

But what if it was all a false distraction of the enemy, to prevent Christians from seeing we are near the end? That John's "whole world" already carries the name of the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast".
Traditional Historicism

That is Jesus. A literal Person. We will stand for Him. Not a set of beliefs. Why would we expect another set of beliefs to be the enemy without having Someone to represent those beliefs.

We know Satan has no original ideas of his own. If Jesis is going to return literally and physically, why would he (satan) allow himself to be shown up? He has been waiting thousands of years for his chance to destroy.

See what I mean about not seeing? He already has 1.5 billion Muslims under his belt, commanded to subjugate the rest of the world to themselves. They already conquered John's "whole world".
That doesn't even count atheists and others that are in his back pocket.

His pride and ego will not allow him to sit back and watch man destoy ourself.

He hasn't been sitting back, but working double-time.

 

[Anonimous]

So unless you are going to credit Muhammad as being a prophet, that should serve as a warning to expect anything but and individual. It is a compelling reason to rethink a "The" "Antichrist" - particularly considering there are 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone.


They have been standing with him for 1400 years. The false prophet Muhammad.

But what if it was all a false distraction of the enemy, to prevent Christians from seeing we are near the end? That John's "whole world" already carries the name of the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast".
Traditional Historicism

See what I mean about not seeing? He already has 1.5 billion Muslims under his belt, commanded to subjugate the rest of the world to themselves. They already conquered John's "whole world".
That doesn't even count atheists and others that are in his back pocket.
He hasn't been sitting back, but working double-time.

It seems as if our only disagreement is whether the antichrist is literal or not. I can live with that disagreement.

 

[1Christianwarrior316]

And if you are looking for a link THIS IS IT.

Wow an imaginary link. Kind of like the imaginary endtime leader you keep say is coming.

1Christianwarrior316

 

[peterT]

Wow an imaginary link. Kind of like the imaginary endtime leader you keep say is coming.

1Christianwarrior316

Just because God has not revealed these thing to the wise and prudent/bible scholars/ YOU,doulos, disciples of Ellis Skolfield/Therapon. Don’t take it out on me LOL.

Matt11:25At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

If you think I am mocking you a little your right

Just like elijah mocks the prophets of baal

 

[Katy-follower]

If you were Satan, and wanted to present yourself as the Christ, and destroy the belief in God...how would you do it?

No one is deceived by blatant evil.

We know he transforms himself into an angel of light, as do his ministers also (2 Cor 11:13-15) to make himself appealing to the masses.

It's like a good cop/bad cop scenario... 2 approaches, where one sends people running into the arms of the other. 2 approaches but with the same agenda.

Anyway, God wins!

 

[loveme1]

Be careful not to miss the well hidden anti Messiah at work.

 

[Anonimous]

Wow an imaginary link. Kind of like the imaginary endtime leader you keep say is coming.

1Christianwarrior316

Hmmm. I thought Daniel and John were the first to warn about this.

 

[PeteWaldo]

It seems as if our only disagreement is whether the antichrist is literal or not. I can live with that disagreement.

Seems to me the antichrist couldn't be more literal, with 1.5 billion of them in the world today. Let's look at the only verse of the four that contain the term "antichrist", that has been construed (and not very well) as indicating other than many antichrists, ever since the first century:

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

How could the above verse make any sense if the first use of the term antichrist were supposed to be an individual person as "The" "Antichrist", when six words later we learn there are many antichrists? This is the only verse of those above that is generally construed to indicate a single individual as such. Let's develop our understanding by looking to another verse that also uses the term antichrist in a singular fashion:
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

You can see the singular "that", "spirit", "it" in this sentence and singular "antichrist", just like the singular "antichrist" in 1 John 2:18. The translators gave us a little extra push in 1 John 4:3 by inserting the word [spirit] a second time, further clarifying that the spirit of antichrist is this singular entity. Now look at how this makes the "little children" verse make perfect sense if, when you get to the first use of term antichrist, you understand it as THE SPIRIT OF antichrist:

John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Finally look also at how beautifully parallel these two verse snippets are:

"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"ye have heard that it should come"

Here is the danger in not erring on the safe side of things. As your last two post indicate, whatever eschatological approach it is that you follow, has you pretty well convinced that Jesus delays his return. That it is not truly imminent. I'll follow with another example.

 

[PeteWaldo]

No no no. I am full aware the falling away is happening even now. I'm not too ignorant. You would have to be a grade A moron not to see that. What I meant is that there will a falling away en masse. The big falling away. I have seen Joel and agree with you. I have seen his whimpy soggy gospel of prosperity as well. He is a coward who will not tell people they are in need of forgiveness. He says it is not his job.

I am also aware of the other things you mention.

You can not turn on a "christian" program without seeing this stuff happening.

Where does the bible offer a measure as to how much apostasy is enough? What is going on in Europe is stunning. What about John's "whole world"?



Except for those protected by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State virtually everyone in John's "whole world" has already been marked by the name of the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic "beast".
How many more would the Lord want to loose?
See what I meant about a doctrine suggesting to you that Jesus return is about after certain things come to take place?

 

[PeteWaldo]

Correction: I meant "with 1.5 billion [antichrists] in the world today [in Islam alone]. That number doesn't even count atheists and others that deny that Jesus is the Son of God. Or deny The father and the Son.

And I forgot to add the phrase. (I don't intend to rewrite scripture but add it as another way we can understand it):

John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that [the spirit of] antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

[doulos]

Just because God has not revealed these thing to the wise and prudent/bible scholars/ YOU,doulos, disciples of Ellis Skolfield/Therapon. Don’t take it out on me LOL.

Matt11:25At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

If you think I am mocking you a little your right

Just like elijah mocks the prophets of baal

It is not a case of what the Lord hasn't revealed to us, but a case of you having bought into a futurists doctrine derived from the writings of a 16th century Jesuit priest whose only agenda was to counter the reformation and make the word of God of none effect.
I truly do fear that many that have bought into this man made doctrine will fail to recognize Christ when He returns and say this can't be Christ the antichrist comes first.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

AS we can all see the verses above tell us antichrist and/or antichrists is a spirit or individual that denies the Father or Son and that there are many. Some promote the fallacy that Joh2:18 says there will be an endtime world leader aka “The Antichrist” Unfortunately this belief necessitates that those who hold it ignore the fact that 1John also told us exactly who/what to expect concerning antichrists when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

peterT as all can see the view I espouse is based on what Scripture actually states. On the other hand the view you espouse says antichrist is a world leader or a king but yet not a single verse in Scripture actually states that. But hey if you want to believe in a myth it’s your choice. As you are led friend as you are led!

 

[peterT]

It is not a case of what the Lord hasn't revealed to us, but a case of you having bought into a futurists doctrine derived from the writings of a 16th century Jesuit priest whose only agenda was to counter the reformation and make the word of God of none effect.
I truly do fear that many that have bought into this man made doctrine will fail to recognize Christ when He returns and say this can't be Christ the antichrist comes first.

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

AS we can all see the verses above tell us antichrist and/or antichrists is a spirit or individual that denies the Father or Son and that there are many. Some promote the fallacy that Joh2:18 says there will be an endtime world leader aka “The Antichrist” Unfortunately this belief necessitates that those who hold it ignore the fact that 1John also told us exactly who/what to expect concerning antichrists when he said “this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

peterT as all can see the view I espouse is based on what Scripture actually states. On the other hand the view you espouse says antichrist is a world leader or a king but yet not a single verse in Scripture actually states that. But hey if you want to believe in a myth it’s your choice. As you are led friend as you are led!

You are a gluten for punishment bro.


Yes, like what you said “what Scripture actually states “that antichrist shall come”


You don’t even believe in those verses bro, so your words have no power because you have no faith in them verses.

Somebody has to be the wolves in sheep’s clothing

Somebody has to be the, many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Somebody has to be, stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.


Somebody has to be Make merchandise of the church

Somebody has to be deceitfully using the word of God.

Somebody has to be the five foolish virgins

Somebody has to be re-writhing scripture to suit their man made doctrine


“Wopps” TAG you it.


And it’s not you pulling me up for re-writhing scripture, it’s me pulling you up for re-writhing scripture. Do the math bro, do the math .


And as for no antichrist world leader, what’s this guy a friend of Jesus? Making war with the saints and has power over ALL kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rv13:7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


I love these little chats with you because every time you speak I get to preach the gospel

You’re walking naked, and I can see his shame.

15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Id remove all suffering and make everyone at ease.
Id tell everyone to go to church and dont worry, be happy.
And lots of group hugs and smiles.

I think you're a repressed hippy.

 

[doulos]

You are a gluten for punishment bro.


Yes, like what you said “what Scripture actually states “that antichrist shall come”


You don’t even believe in those verses bro, so your words have no power because you have no faith in them verses.

Somebody has to be the wolves in sheep’s clothing

Somebody has to be the, many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Somebody has to be, stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.


Somebody has to be Make merchandise of the church

Somebody has to be deceitfully using the word of God.

Somebody has to be the five foolish virgins

Somebody has to be re-writhing scripture to suit their man made doctrine


“Wopps” TAG you it.


And it’s not you pulling me up for re-writhing scripture, it’s me pulling you up for re-writhing scripture. Do the math bro, do the math .


And as for no antichrist world leader, what’s this guy a friend of Jesus? Making war with the saints and has power over ALL kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rv13:7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


I love these little chats with you because every time you speak I get to preach the gospel

You’re walking naked, and I can see his shame.

15Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

And once again you continue to ignore John also told us "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" It's sad to see you are still drinking Ridera's 400 year old KOOL AID!

peterT do you have anything productive to add to the discusssion? Your sophmoric tactics and false accusations grow wearisome. Carry on you only serve to discredit yourself.

 

[peterT]

And once again you continue to ignore John also told us "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world" It's sad to see you are still drinking Ridera's 400 year old KOOL AID!

peterT do you have anything productive to add to the discusssion? Your sophmoric tactics and false accusations grow wearisome. Carry on you only serve to discredit yourself.

You’re the one getting thrashed LOL

 

[Nancyer]

Most are under the strong delusion God promised to send to those who love not the truth, and most of the bible pundits you may be following today preach a false salvation message, such as Billy Graham, and all those who promote reformed doctrines,

Could you please explain how Billy Graham preaches false messages? I haven't listened to him a great deal but have liked what I have heard. Thank you.

 

[Anonimous]

Most are under the strong delusion God promised to send to those who love not the truth, and most of the bible pundits you may be following today preach a false salvation message, such as Billy Graham, and all those who promote reformed doctrines,

Could you please explain how Billy Graham preaches false messages? I haven't listened to him a great deal but have liked what I have heard. Thank you.

Billy Graham? When has he ever been accused of preaching a false gospel? never that I have heard.

 

[doulos]

You’re the one getting thrashed LOL

LOL you fail to recognize your words and your actions betray you. Thanks for proving my point once again!