Why do many stumble at 3 of the 5 gifts?
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Did the apostles not witness the death of JEsus, and see him when he was resurrected? Does the bible not talk of the great Commission? Weren't the apostles the ones who saw Him ascend to Heaven? They were actual witnesses to the life of Christ. They were there!
And you see no evidence of this in scripture?
And you see no evidence of this in scripture?
1
To all.
Just read it.
Please.
Because the Apostles were given inspired, revealed doctrine.
People actually committed themselves to it....
Acts 2
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
The office of apostle is described as a foundation to the church...
Eph 2:20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
Now let's connect these dots.
People committed themselves to the APOSTLES DOCTRINE.
The Apostles are a foundational office.
Now the original question...
Modern apostles are rejected, because they aren't needed!
We already have the foundational doctrine from the apostles.
The foundation already exists.
Are the new modern apostles going to give us new doctrine to commit to?
If so, that's extra biblical and downright heresy.
Now some will say.."But an apostle is a messenger. Surely we have messengers now day."
Yes yes we do have messengers.
But those aren't apostles.
No one should commit themselves to the doctrine of a modern day apostle.
Why?
Because that's already been given through the foundational apostles.
Just read it.
Please.
Because the Apostles were given inspired, revealed doctrine.
People actually committed themselves to it....
Acts 2
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
The office of apostle is described as a foundation to the church...
Eph 2:20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone,
Now let's connect these dots.
People committed themselves to the APOSTLES DOCTRINE.
The Apostles are a foundational office.
Now the original question...
Modern apostles are rejected, because they aren't needed!
We already have the foundational doctrine from the apostles.
The foundation already exists.
Are the new modern apostles going to give us new doctrine to commit to?
If so, that's extra biblical and downright heresy.
Now some will say.."But an apostle is a messenger. Surely we have messengers now day."
Yes yes we do have messengers.
But those aren't apostles.
No one should commit themselves to the doctrine of a modern day apostle.
Why?
Because that's already been given through the foundational apostles.
1
And..the office of Apostle still reaches into today.
You ask..well how can that be if they're dead and no new apostles exist today?
Well simple.
How can we make use of the office of the apostles who are long gone and dead?
By committing ourselves to their inspired, revealed doctrine.
Acts 2
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Every time we make use of their foundational doctrine inspired by the Holy Spirit, we in effect use this gift that God gave to the church.
You ask..well how can that be if they're dead and no new apostles exist today?
Well simple.
How can we make use of the office of the apostles who are long gone and dead?
By committing ourselves to their inspired, revealed doctrine.
Acts 2
And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Every time we make use of their foundational doctrine inspired by the Holy Spirit, we in effect use this gift that God gave to the church.
Paul didn't clearly.
Epaphroditas was also an apostle, though its masked in translation:
Php 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants
Messanger here is the same as apostle elsewhere.
Titas is also called an apostle in the same way in 2 Cor 8:23.
Neither Titas nor Epaprhoditas fulfills your requirements, yet apostles they are.
Epaphroditas was also an apostle, though its masked in translation:
Php 2:25 Yet I supposed it necessary to send to you Epaphroditus, my brother, and companion in labour, and fellowsoldier, but your messenger, and he that ministered to my wants
Messanger here is the same as apostle elsewhere.
Titas is also called an apostle in the same way in 2 Cor 8:23.
Neither Titas nor Epaprhoditas fulfills your requirements, yet apostles they are.
Apostles have the unique place in having to be eyewitnesses to the risen Lord, and are called upon to use that witness to establish foundations in new peoples. They also checked back in from time to time with these newly established churches to keep them on the straight and narrow.
But the assumption is that only those who were alive during the time Jesus walked the earth after His Resurrection can be eyewitnesses. The same yesterday today and tomorrow, except that once again today's not the same as yesterday? There are eyewitnesses out there here and now, who are using that witness to create inroads into new territory, both physical and spiritual.
Like any of the offices, Apostle is a calling, and while they're numbers are for sure small they are out there none the less. God bless them all.
But the assumption is that only those who were alive during the time Jesus walked the earth after His Resurrection can be eyewitnesses. The same yesterday today and tomorrow, except that once again today's not the same as yesterday? There are eyewitnesses out there here and now, who are using that witness to create inroads into new territory, both physical and spiritual.
Like any of the offices, Apostle is a calling, and while they're numbers are for sure small they are out there none the less. God bless them all.
The twelve disciples, not Apostles, witnessed Jesus' death. Paul was an Apostle and did not witness any of the things you mentioned. Even so, it does not make those things a requirement to be a disciple either. Jesus said that if any one loves Him, He would make them a disciple of Him.
As far as appointment goes, one should not self-appoint them self as a teacher or pastor either. These "gifts", as they are called in Ephesians 4, are only given by God. Anyone that is not appointed by God and given these gifts are false. Yes, you have heard mention of false teachers and prophets mostly, but we are also warned against wolves that come in sheep's clothing (false pastors). This seems to be a more uncomfortable subject for most people though. One should wonder why that is the case.
As far as appointment goes, one should not self-appoint them self as a teacher or pastor either. These "gifts", as they are called in Ephesians 4, are only given by God. Anyone that is not appointed by God and given these gifts are false. Yes, you have heard mention of false teachers and prophets mostly, but we are also warned against wolves that come in sheep's clothing (false pastors). This seems to be a more uncomfortable subject for most people though. One should wonder why that is the case.
Isn't this what we are told NOT to say in 1 Corinthians 12?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Acts 9:15 Jesus personally appeared to Paul, and h was a chosen vessel.
He was also confirmed by other men. One was Peter. Gal 2:7-9
Jesus personally chose 12 men, and named them to be apostles.
Luke 6:12-16 12One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. 13When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: 14Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, 15Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, 16Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
Jesus chose who would take the place of Judas
Acts 1:24 Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen
Apostles repeatedly affirmed they were eye witnesses
Acts 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.
Acts 10:41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen--by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
Acts 3:15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.
1 John 1:1-4 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our [SUP]a[/SUP] joy complete.
Paul was an eye witness to the resurrected Christ. Jesus appearing to him in Acts 22 confirms this
He was also confirmed by other men. One was Peter. Gal 2:7-9
Jesus personally chose 12 men, and named them to be apostles.
Luke 6:12-16 12One of those days Jesus went out to a mountainside to pray, and spent the night praying to God. 13When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: 14Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, 15Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, 16Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.
Jesus chose who would take the place of Judas
Acts 1:24 Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen
Apostles repeatedly affirmed they were eye witnesses
Acts 2:32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.
Acts 10:41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen--by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
Acts 3:15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.
1 John 1:1-4 1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our [SUP]a[/SUP] joy complete.
Paul was an eye witness to the resurrected Christ. Jesus appearing to him in Acts 22 confirms this
G
Apostle= someone sent by God, 'called,,' as Paul puts it, starting out 1 Corinthians.
It's simple, not supernatura a la 'Apostle.”
Why make it difficult, we who are His sheep, are sent out, the great commission, some have the office of ”apostle,” in a direct sense like 'missionary,' or another calling.
Some are teachers, some pastors, some evangslists, some prophesyers, and, yes, some apostles, per 1 Cor. 12
It's simple, not supernatura a la 'Apostle.”
Why make it difficult, we who are His sheep, are sent out, the great commission, some have the office of ”apostle,” in a direct sense like 'missionary,' or another calling.
Some are teachers, some pastors, some evangslists, some prophesyers, and, yes, some apostles, per 1 Cor. 12
R
scriptures showing that apostles were eyewitnesses of the risen jesus...
1 corinthians 9:1..."Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?"
1 corinthians 15:6-8..."After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also."
and here is scripture showing the reason why that was one of their qualifications...
acts 4:33..."And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all."
1 corinthians 9:1..."Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord?"
1 corinthians 15:6-8..."After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also."
and here is scripture showing the reason why that was one of their qualifications...
acts 4:33..."And with great power the apostles were giving testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all."
R
scripture showing that the role of the apostles was to reveal the new testament mysteries...
ephesians 3:4-5..."By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;"
2 timothy 1:8-11..."Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher."
1 timothy 2:5-7..."For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth."
ephesians 3:4-5..."By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;"
2 timothy 1:8-11..."Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord or of me His prisoner, but join with me in suffering for the gospel according to the power of God, who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity, but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher."
1 timothy 2:5-7..."For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth."