I am hearing some STRANGE stuff about scripture.

[RedTent]

I hear that too much Old Testament study is very bad. It seems to be the Torah that they feel this way about. It is almost as if when you say Torah instead of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy it changes it from being scripture to being something to stay away from. Did God principles change between testaments?

Seems to me the book of Hebrews talks about what changed by Christ' resurrection instead of being shown to us only as a symbol. It talks of the difference between the testaments. But that book backs up the Torah as scripture, talks as if we know it thoroughly, and tells us how to grow with Christ, and it doesn’t say to deny the Torah.

It seems to be that if OT God principles are mentioned on cc, it means "Hebrew Roots" and like saying to join a cult. Hebrew roots, I am told, has nothing to do with studying OT for roots of Christ. It means denying Christ as savior and using rituals or black magic instead. Talk of God principles is labeled Jewish principles and means to deny Christ.

What do you posters think?

 

[Therapon]

Way too many of us are becoming theoretical theologians, judges of the law (and of our fellow believers) rather than the doers thereof.

 

[CDavid]

I hear that too much Old Testament study is very bad. It seems to be the Torah that they feel this way about. It is almost as if when you say Torah instead of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy it changes it from being scripture to being something to stay away from. Did God principles change between testaments?

Seems to me the book of Hebrews talks about what changed by Christ' resurrection instead of being shown to us only as a symbol. It talks of the difference between the testaments. But that book backs up the Torah as scripture, talks as if we know it thoroughly, and tells us how to grow with Christ, and it doesn’t say to deny the Torah.

It seems to be that if OT God principles are mentioned on cc, it means "Hebrew Roots" and like saying to join a cult. Hebrew roots, I am told, has nothing to do with studying OT for roots of Christ. It means denying Christ as savior and using rituals or black magic instead. Talk of God principles is labeled Jewish principles and means to deny Christ.

What do you posters think?

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
When Paul wrote this, the only scripture in existence was the OT scriptures.

 

[zone]

I hear that too much Old Testament study is very bad. It seems to be the Torah that they feel this way about. It is almost as if when you say Torah instead of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy it changes it from being scripture to being something to stay away from. Did God principles change between testaments?

Seems to me the book of Hebrews talks about what changed by Christ' resurrection instead of being shown to us only as a symbol. It talks of the difference between the testaments. But that book backs up the Torah as scripture, talks as if we know it thoroughly, and tells us how to grow with Christ, and it doesn’t say to deny the Torah.

It seems to be that if OT God principles are mentioned on cc, it means "Hebrew Roots" and like saying to join a cult. Hebrew roots, I am told, has nothing to do with studying OT for roots of Christ. It means denying Christ as savior and using rituals or black magic instead. Talk of God principles is labeled Jewish principles and means to deny Christ.

What do you posters think?

redtent....how about an OT challenge.
let's see who understands the OT more - you or me.
game?

what nonsense you post.
repeatedly you do this. as if the OT revealed MORE of God than the New.
you say things like - we ignore the Father in favor of the Son and bizarre stuff like that!!! LOL

just admit you wish you were jewish and be done with it

 

[JGPS]

I hear that too much Old Testament study is very bad. It seems to be the Torah that they feel this way about. It is almost as if when you say Torah instead of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy it changes it from being scripture to being something to stay away from. Did God principles change between testaments?

Seems to me the book of Hebrews talks about what changed by Christ' resurrection instead of being shown to us only as a symbol. It talks of the difference between the testaments. But that book backs up the Torah as scripture, talks as if we know it thoroughly, and tells us how to grow with Christ, and it doesn’t say to deny the Torah.

It seems to be that if OT God principles are mentioned on cc, it means "Hebrew Roots" and like saying to join a cult. Hebrew roots, I am told, has nothing to do with studying OT for roots of Christ. It means denying Christ as savior and using rituals or black magic instead. Talk of God principles is labeled Jewish principles and means to deny Christ.

What do you posters think?

Yeah, a lot of people do freak in one way or another at the prospect of taking the Torah too seriously.

 

[1Covenant]

RedTent
I'm not sure I understand all of your post but since you asked what posters thought...

We ought to all know the OT better and it is unfortunate that some discard the OT. The book of Hebrews puts the OT in context. The OT was a shadow of the eternal and thereby the Jews of old were tempted to miss the meaning, though not all of them or all of the time as scripture tells us. The book of Hebrews as well as Christ himself teaches us that the OT speaks of Christ and his kingdom.

We ought to read the OT with expectant NT eyes, the when we get to a hard piece of scripture like Numbers 5:11-31 we ought to see the unfaithful wife as we the church. However, we ought also to see our husband unlike the man in the pages administering the law and unlike the first Adam who pointed accusation to his wife, but we ought to see our glorious betrothed husband in another garden praying, with tears of blood, that the cup of bitterness that was ours would pass from him. We should see our husband take the cup and the curse and for the cup of bitterness he turns to offers us the cup of blessing from his own blood and sacrifice.
Along this same them, we see the shadow made more glorious in Ephesians "In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, because we are members of his body. 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church."

Notice that Paul is pealing back the prophetic picture in Genesis and though this passage is about Adam and Eve, Paul tells us that it is actually referring to Christ and the church. This is the purpose of the OT. To teach us the faithfulness of God, the coherent plan of God in his self-revelation over time until the fullness of time and to deepen our love for him.

Be encourage to see Christ in the OT. Be encouraged to put yourself into its history and when you feel like groaning for something better than the heaviness of its pages, when you desire to no longer be a slave to its "elementary principle of the world" (and you will) - remember that HE is that which is better, he is tender, forgiving, and full of glory.

 

[Domenic]

The Torah is the Hebrew scriptures, Jesus referred to them. Today they are part of the Bible. They are Gods word. I am against the teaching of the Jews. They do not grasp the same meaning from the Torah as Christians. I have many Jewish friends who talk freely to me on the subject. Genesis 3: 15 to the Jew, does not lead them to Jesus. As to the relationship between Jew, and Gentile, To a Jew, the Gentile is dead in Gods eye. They Believe nothing of the Greek scriptures. God does not have the tribe of Judah as part of his chosen people. Because they rejected his son Jesus, God took that position away, and gave it to all the nations. I would never recommend a Christian study under anybody who is a part of the tribe of Judah, The tribe of Judah was only one part of Gods chosen people. Since they rejected Jesus, they are not Gods chosen, nor can they be in the Book of life because of their rejection of Jesus, I am not against the Torah. I view the Jew the same as anybody else who rejects Jesus.
As to the OP, I believe the Torah as part of the word of God. I hold a division as to who one should have as a teacher of the Torah.

 

[matt7777777]

I think the bible is the bible whether its old or new testament its all gods word an we need to study it all..

 

[Angela53510]

The Torah or the Books of Moses are important to study. They contain the fall, the promise to Abraham and the history of the chosen people that there would be a Saviour or Deliverer.

I am finding it is the Talmud that is true Judaism, the commentary on the Torah. That is where I differ from Jews. I only believe God's inspired Word, not the commentaries of Jewish rabbis.

 

[JGPS]

The Torah or the Books of Moses are important to study. They contain the fall, the promise to Abraham and the history of the chosen people that there would be a Saviour or Deliverer.

I am finding it is the Talmud that is true Judaism, the commentary on the Torah. That is where I differ from Jews. I only believe God's inspired Word, not the commentaries of Jewish rabbis.

There was a good topic on the Talmud a while ago. Your view was pretty much the general consensus.

 

[crossnote]

One of the strangest I've heard from certain (not all) Messianic believers is that the writings of Shaul (Apostle Paul) are only a commentary on the Torah. In almost all cases of Shuls I have visited the plain gospel has been muddled under the Torah lest they offend a 'seeking Jew'. No difference from modern evangelical church growth tactics.

 

[loveme1]

I hear that too much Old Testament study is very bad. It seems to be the Torah that they feel this way about. It is almost as if when you say Torah instead of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy it changes it from being scripture to being something to stay away from. Did God principles change between testaments?

Seems to me the book of Hebrews talks about what changed by Christ' resurrection instead of being shown to us only as a symbol. It talks of the difference between the testaments. But that book backs up the Torah as scripture, talks as if we know it thoroughly, and tells us how to grow with Christ, and it doesn’t say to deny the Torah.

It seems to be that if OT God principles are mentioned on cc, it means "Hebrew Roots" and like saying to join a cult. Hebrew roots, I am told, has nothing to do with studying OT for roots of Christ. It means denying Christ as savior and using rituals or black magic instead. Talk of God principles is labeled Jewish principles and means to deny Christ.

What do you posters think?

I think that loving Heavenly Father and the Messiah Yahshua will keep one away from error.

learn of them through the Bible that is why we are given it.. seek them not among those that love them not.

 

[Therapon]

The Torah or the Books of Moses are important to study. They contain the fall, the promise to Abraham and the history of the chosen people that there would be a Saviour or Deliverer.

I am finding it is the Talmud that is true Judaism, the commentary on the Torah. That is where I differ from Jews. I only believe God's inspired Word, not the commentaries of Jewish rabbis.

Well, shouldn't we include the New Testament commentators, too? Are they not the Church's own Talmud, leading to our own ritualistic Judaism?

 

[loveme1]

Well, shouldn't we include the New Testament commentators, too? Are they not the Church's own Talmud, leading to our own ritualistic Judaism?

Who are the New Testament commentators?

 

[loveme1]

From a search i got the name Matthew Henry would this be an example of what you mean?

 

[loveme1]

I have considered theology is the New Testament talmud but where does this start and stop?

 

[Therapon]

From a search i got the name Matthew Henry would this be an example of what you mean?

How about Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth," or Tim laHay's "Left Behind" series? Any book that has a teaches a doctrinal position is a commentary.

 

[Therapon]

I have considered theology is the New Testament talmud but where does this start and stop?

IMHO, any book about the Bible that teaches a doctrinal position is a commentarey.

 

[loveme1]

How about Hal Lindsey's "Late Great Planet Earth," or Tim laHay's "Left Behind" series? Any book that has a teaches a doctrinal position is a commentary.

Not familiar as far as reading those books, though i may of come across the term left behind..

i have no idea who matthew henry is anyhow..

 

[Therapon]

Not familiar as far as reading those books, though i may of come across the term left behind..

i have no idea who matthew henry is anyhow..

Mercy, you must have been born in a convent. <smile> Matthew Henry is an almost universally known commentator on the whole Bible of the 17th century.