Don't Argue.. Encourage.

[sleepingmonkey09]

Hello everyone
It is very rare for me to come and write post anything.. but for some reason I felt that it was something that I should be doing once in while. Being part of the CC has been a major blessing .. not only has it allowed me to meet great people who love the Lord, but to also see the heart of Christ even in times of difficulty. However, the biggest challenges that I have seen and experienced was that when it comes to sharing the word.. when we are called to be one body in Christ, there is always something that prevents that from happening. Over the past few weeks since i have been logging onto chat, attending the bible studies, the most difficult part of sitting through it was to see the numerous arguments when we talk about the bible. Yes, we all were raised under different denominations and there will always be a reason to say, "but but you're wrong.. but but.." Or even when we state an opinion or slip up in whatever comes out of our mouths.. the first response is.. "uh oh.. God isnt gonna be happy" or something along those lines.. We are all human, and God has brought us into CC for a purpose.. to fellowship and learn from each other.. We're not here to argue or judge anyone no matter what we believe.. If anything .. should we not be encouraging each other in love? That is something that we call agree on is it not?

I am not here to say what doctrine or who's upbringing is better or worse than anyone because I am not God.. Yes there will always be people to argue and maybe respond negatively.. But instead of saying.. "well uh you said this and it's wrong.. " Instead of starting a fight.. I want to encourage everyone to treat each other with respect, know when to speak and when to just listen. I am at fault in doing so and in one way or another we all are.. So let us stop arguing about who God is and appreciate and be thankful that God has brought us together to learn together and treat each other like brothers and sisters in Christ. (At least try). Thanks

 

[Thaddaeus]

should we encourage someone to continue in a false teaching, say someone believes that a Homomsexual can continue to be a homosexual after they have come to the knowledge Of Christ and what the wages of sin can do, or do we discuss with the Word, the err of their way, I know the Bible says not to strive over the Word, but when do we give up on someone that we love that is a drunk or dopehead just to keep peace in the relationship, knowing that if they don't stop, they will suffer loss for their abuse. so when do we give up on someone who thinks they are pleaseing God by their teaching a certain doctrine that is false, and we give them scriptures proving this, knowing that not only could they suffer loss if they continue in the doctrine but could also cause others to be mislead???

Mt 18:15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his FAULT between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
2pe 2:1But there were FALSE prophets also among the people, even as there shall be FALSE TEACHERS among you, who privily shall bring in d amnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

2co 6:14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

 

[aprodigal1]

When it comes to the essentials of the gospel, especially Salvation through Christ Jesus, there is no doubt a need to be able to take a stand and make a defense for the Truth of the gospel, especially among believers (unfortunately). In a world today where there are many contemporary teachings that support many of the false religions out there, we who defend the gospel by explaining these truths and showing them in the Word of God are doing what was commanded to us be our Lord in Matthew 28, "Making Disciples"
But I have also seen many non essentials of the faith argued among believers where entire churches have split and the actions of such believers have dragged the name of Christ through the mud. Many of the popular non essentials argued:

1. The Holy Spirit (a loaded one)
2. The Rapture
3. Baptism
4. How to dress for church.......etc, etc..

I believe no matter what the argument is, the scripture teaches some basic principles on communication:

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one.
Ephesians 4:29Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.

Matthew 12:36-37 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.37For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

So I think we all need to be very careful and make sure no matter what we do, we do ALL to the glory of God.

 

[Cookie38115]

It is not what you say, but the way you say things. I cannot hear you if you are being sarcastic and downright rude. None of us knows the entire mystery of The Father, but some of us act as if we have it all right, and we do not because we are not God. Love covers a multitude of sin, we need to disagree in Love and keep it moving. If you do not agree in what I believe and you have told me what your truth is, then keep it moving. Brow beating me is not going to help me see the light, it makes me dig in my heals even more to defend my beliefs and what I believe to be right.

It is like, I am going to beat you over the head with this truth I have, because I am so right and you are so wrong and drag you into my truth!!! You do more harm than good, when you do not come in love and do it with guidance from The Holy Spirit.

 

[andrew4]

Amen SleepingMonkey. You are absolutely right, and I totally agree (inspiration of my signature).We as Christians must be able to speak respectfully with one another. Even when we feel we are right, we must respect those with different views and not let things get heated. Remember what our Lord said, if you say to your brother fool, you are in danger of Hell Fire. We must treat everyone the way we would like to be treated. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Thaddeus:
about the stopping people from sinning part:

The bible also says (this is a rough translation as I can't be bothered to look up the english one):
"And if someone among you says to another "you fool" he shall be condemned to the fires of hell"
-We are ALL sinners, and I bet you (just like me) have said that many times, and also done other things, knowing they are wrong. Jesus saves ALL (point beeing): Gay people (as you used them as an example) are not any more condemned than you or me, even if they keep living gay, unless YOU and I don't sin at all. And that's impossble...). Thats where saved bu grace comes in

And the bible also tells us not to throw pearls before swine (something I've done faaar too many times), so if a person refuses to listen, we can do nothing but pray. Less than half my friends are Christians, and I guarantee you, starting by telling them they are sinners is not a good way of bringing them to God, is it?

 

[Thaddaeus]

Thaddeus:
about the stopping people from sinning part:

The bible also says (this is a rough translation as I can't be bothered to look up the english one):
"And if someone among you says to another "you fool" he shall be condemned to the fires of hell"
-We are ALL sinners, and I bet you (just like me) have said that many times, and also done other things, knowing they are wrong. Jesus saves ALL (point beeing): Gay people (as you used them as an example) are not any more condemned than you or me, even if they keep living gay, unless YOU and I don't sin at all. And that's impossble...). Thats where saved bu grace comes in

And the bible also tells us not to throw pearls before swine (something I've done faaar too many times), so if a person refuses to listen, we can do nothing but pray. Less than half my friends are Christians, and I guarantee you, starting by telling them they are sinners is not a good way of bringing them to God, is it?

No I beg the difference this is the very false teaching that i am talking about if you never turn from your sin then there is a very good chance that you didn't mean Business with the Lord when you called upon Him, then your very soul may be in trouble. so you encourage them to continue in their sin and The Word of God says Ro 6:1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?Ro 6:2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
you keep teaching this teaching and you will have alot of other peoples blood on your hands when you stand before the judgement. there will be people there on that day that think they were saved because of your very doctrine,
Mt 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

See If we call upon the name of the Lord then we have to make Him Lord, if we have Him as Lord then we would want to please Him, to serve Him, to obey Him , yeah sure sometimes we will slip because we are weak , and still in the flesh, but to say that we don't have to turn/repent from sin, is a very dangerous doctrine. where is the newness that we walk!

Joh 15:9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.Joh 15:10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Gay people (as you used them as an example) are not any more condemned than you or me, even if they keep living gay, unless YOU and I don't sin at all. And that's impossble...).

this is another false teaching that will get alot of people in trouble, it is not impossible for me to turn from my sin for :
Php 4:13I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Look at these verses

Mt 26:41Watch and pray, that ye enter not into TEMPTATION: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

1co 10:13There hath no TEMPTATION taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the TEMPTATION also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
2pe 2:9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of TEMPTATIONs, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:God has said that with every temptation He provides a way out , also That He knows how to deliver His Children/the Godly out of their temptations. so to say that it is impossible for us to go without sinning after the knowledge of Christ is to say that God is weak and that sin is greater than God , and God has lied in His word , That He can't deliver gays or anyone else from their temptations.

It says that whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved. not call upon the name of the Saviour, you just can't say Lord save me then not make Him Lord. it Is Not a Burger King religion, you can't have it your way it must Be His way. Ro 12:1I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.Ro 12:2And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

the Lord saves us but He must be Lord if we are still in charge of our Life then we are still lord of our life, and we can't save ourselves.

let me cover this before you respond 1jo 1:8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.


I have sin as long as I am in the flesh I will have sin, but through Jesus, The Powerthat I have, sin no longer has dominion over me. so yes I have sin But I DO NOT have to sin. if God accepts us for the way we are and never wants us to change then why did He tell us this in His Word

1pe 1:13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;1pe 1:14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:1pe 1:15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;1pe 1:16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.1pe 1:17And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

 

[MahogonySnail]

there's nothing wrong with calling a brother or sister in Christ a fool if that is what they in fact are. Meaning simply foolish, stupid, idiotic . Paul on occasion called people fools, see 1 Cor 15:36, 1 Cor 3:18, says we must become a fool in order to become wise.

The term brother in those verses of Jesus's sayings is not meaning just other Christians, but a more general term, your fellow man, neighbour etc. Be angry with no man, regardless of who they are. The word fool, Raca, means a wicked reprobate man. It is more than calling someone a fool because that is what they are, it is spitting upon them, calling them a "wicked man". That would be, claiming a Christian is going to hell fire for example, when in fact they are holy to God. Looking down upon a fellow servant of Christ as a wicked or vile thing absent of the grace of God.

 

[Thaddaeus]

Thaddeus:
about the stopping people from sinning part:

The bible also says (this is a rough translation as I can't be bothered to look up the english one):

"And if someone among you says to another "you fool" he shall be condemned to the fires of hell"

quote]
the bible defines a fool as one that says there is no God, I have never called a mixed up christain, a fool

 

[MahogonySnail]

If we mean the word fool as in insane, idiotic, etc. That is perfectly acceptable. Paul called himself such at times. For the sake of the Gospel of course. Fools are unlearned people and there are many in Christianity, just as there were fools in the church that Paul addressed in his letters. A fool may not believe in God, Christ, the devil, they may even be deceived into thinking sin is ok. Christian fools are the ones who live in unrepentant sin such as with boyfriend or girlfriend and sleep together etc. Or they may hold onto clearly erroneous or stupid doctrines.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

My point was really: The only thing that separates us from them is the blood of Christ, without Him, we'd be just as doomed as the rest.

- Are you trying to tell me you never repeat your sins or always do what you shold? (you never lie? you never want anything others have? you always put God first?) Because it seems like you believe we must stop sinning alltougheter to be saved.

"if you kill someone you are a killer, so then if you lie, .. what does that make you?" ... unto the point of forgiveness, our sins are just as bad as theirs.

 

[Thaddaeus]

My point was really: The only thing that separates us from them is the blood of Christ, without Him, we'd be just as doomed as the rest.

- Are you trying to tell me you never repeat your sins or always do what you shold? (you never lie? you never want anything others have? you always put God first?) Because it seems like you believe we must stop sinning alltougheter to be saved.

"if you kill someone you are a killer, so then if you lie, .. what does that make you?" ... unto the point of forgiveness, our sins are just as bad as theirs.

no not at all I am saying what you say I am saying for I believe all the Bible
1jo 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:1jo 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
notice here it says "if". We have a choice to sin or not to sin through the power of the Spirit .

but it also says to:

Php 3:9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:Php 3:10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;Php 3:11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.Php 3:12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.Php 3:13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,Php 3:14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.Php 3:15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

Oooh. OK, then I guess we agree after all

 

[e-Sword86]

Hello everyone
It is very rare for me to come and write post anything.. but for some reason I felt that it was something that I should be doing once in while. Being part of the CC has been a major blessing .. not only has it allowed me to meet great people who love the Lord, but to also see the heart of Christ even in times of difficulty. However, the biggest challenges that I have seen and experienced was that when it comes to sharing the word.. when we are called to be one body in Christ, there is always something that prevents that from happening. Over the past few weeks since i have been logging onto chat, attending the bible studies, the most difficult part of sitting through it was to see the numerous arguments when we talk about the bible. Yes, we all were raised under different denominations and there will always be a reason to say, "but but you're wrong.. but but.." Or even when we state an opinion or slip up in whatever comes out of our mouths.. the first response is.. "uh oh.. God isnt gonna be happy" or something along those lines.. We are all human, and God has brought us into CC for a purpose.. to fellowship and learn from each other.. We're not here to argue or judge anyone no matter what we believe.. If anything .. should we not be encouraging each other in love? That is something that we call agree on is it not?

I am not here to say what doctrine or who's upbringing is better or worse than anyone because I am not God.. Yes there will always be people to argue and maybe respond negatively.. But instead of saying.. "well uh you said this and it's wrong.. " Instead of starting a fight.. I want to encourage everyone to treat each other with respect, know when to speak and when to just listen. I am at fault in doing so and in one way or another we all are.. So let us stop arguing about who God is and appreciate and be thankful that God has brought us together to learn together and treat each other like brothers and sisters in Christ. (At least try). Thanks

James 3:18 "Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace".

You are right as far as how some Christians should interact with one another. I enjoy a good debate or discussion as much as anyone else and will continue to do so but many things posted on threads are in pride and selfishness. Some people argue because they want to be right not because they're trying to be helpful.

The bible says in 2Ti 2:23-26 "But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will".

James 3:17 "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy".

1Co 10:23,24 "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being".

Romans 14:19 "Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another".

 

[BLC]

James 3:18 "Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace".

You are right as far as how some Christians should interact with one another. I enjoy a good debate or discussion as much as anyone else and will continue to do so but many things posted on threads are in pride and selfishness. Some people argue because they want to be right not because they're trying to be helpful.

The bible says in 2Ti 2:23-26 "But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will".

James 3:17 "But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy".

1Co 10:23,24 "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being".

Romans 14:19 "Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another".

If you are going to be balanced, because a false balance is an abomination unto the Lord but a just weight is to His delight (Prov 11:1, 16:11), why not include the following:

Gal 1:6-9 'I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed'.

1Tim 3:3-5 'If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself'.

You won't know who they are unless God draws them out and exposes them. To know who they are and to have good discernment, you have to have a good understanding about the grace of God, about wholesome words, the doctrines of our Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine which is according to godliness. Without these you never know who to withdraw yourself from or who is to be accursed.

Don't give us this thing about those wanting to be right. If you didn't get it right when you believed upon Christ for salvation, by grace and through faith, you would not be cleansed of sin and still be in unbelief. If you did not get it right about the trinity you would be living in some abstract notion of the godhead. If you did not get justification right you would be going around trying to justify yourself by good works instead of faith in Christ's resurrection. If you did not get it right about God's righteousness being imputed to us when we believed, you would be going around trying to establish your own righteousness. If believers don't get it right about the salvation they have received of the Lord, they are going to live their life in subjective and subconscious fear that they could do something that would cause them to lose what God has given them by grace. We better get it right (every single word of it) as we grow in grace and knowledge of Him (2Pt 3:18) or we will be in trouble when trials come to test the word (our faith) that is in our hearts (1Pt 1:7).

 

[e-Sword86]

If you are going to be balanced, because a false balance is an abomination unto the Lord but a just weight is to His delight (Prov 11:1, 16:11), why not include the following:

Gal 1:6-9 'I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed'.

1Tim 3:3-5 'If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself'.

You won't know who they are unless God draws them out and exposes them. To know who they are and to have good discernment, you have to have a good understanding about the grace of God, about wholesome words, the doctrines of our Lord Jesus Christ and the doctrine which is according to godliness. Without these you never know who to withdraw yourself from or who is to be accursed.

Don't give us this thing about those wanting to be right. If you didn't get it right when you believed upon Christ for salvation, by grace and through faith, you would not be cleansed of sin and still be in unbelief. If you did not get it right about the trinity you would be living in some abstract notion of the godhead. If you did not get justification right you would be going around trying to justify yourself by good works instead of faith in Christ's resurrection. If you did not get it right about God's righteousness being imputed to us when we believed, you would be going around trying to establish your own righteousness. If believers don't get it right about the salvation they have received of the Lord, they are going to live their life in subjective and subconscious fear that they could do something that would cause them to lose what God has given them by grace. We better get it right (every single word of it) as we grow in grace and knowledge of Him (2Pt 3:18) or we will be in trouble when trials come to test the word (our faith) that is in our hearts (1Pt 1:7).

You're not staying on topic with the thread. None of the verses you quoted said it's okay to argue and strive with other Christians for any reason. In fact the bible teaches just the opposite. You think that because some people don't understand all of the bible or think as you do that God can't save them or expose those in error? When do you think God saves us, after we know everything or when we're lost?

Ephesians 2:1 "And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others".

Even a baby Christian knows that they need to grow spiritually in the knowledge of God and His word and a mature believer knows that they need to expose false doctrine but that's not even what this thread is about. It's about obeying God's word which says in Romans 14:19 "Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another". When do you make time to edify other Christians or encourage the many on this site who need it? It may not be important to you but it certainly is to God. Argue all you want.

 

[BLC]

When we encourage and build one another up in Christ, we do that in love according to grace and truth. When someone perverts the doctrine of Christ and the gospel, do you just sit there and let them do it? Would you let someone come into your family and propagate a perverted gospel week in and week out and say nothing. They may be a nice guy but what does that have to do with it? Do you think that it could have an effect on your family? There are many in the family of God that are weak in the faith, and these are the ones that need to be built up and encouraged in grace and truth. Those that would take away from that by teaching things that ought not, should we let them do it and let God sort it out, while those that have not been established are led astray and possibly defiled? Is that what you want to see happen, is that how we encourage one another and feed the flock?

 

[faith79]

hi sleepingmonkey, I wanted to add my 2 cents and say that I support your message. It was also very brave of you to write that. Thanks!

 

[mcap]

It is because of all the different denominations that the Church is in the mess it is in.I do not believe that God wanted His people forming a hundred different opinions about what His word meant.We are all supposed to be one in God.As Christians it is up to us to spread the Good News,tell those who do not know of Him that He loves them and offers them eternal life.We are also to tell those who are back-sliding what they are doing wrong.IT IS NOT FOR US TO JUDGE ANYONE.We are not equal to God,only God can judge and He will one day.

 

[loveschild]

Well you tried monkey. God bless you, Love