A
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
W
wdeaton65
Guest
Oh come on bog me make my day!
How do you people do these awesome pictures LOL.
My wife wont show me she says I am to mean on here all ready. I am not allowed to poke fun LOL Boy is that cool.
A
Abiding
Guest
How do you people do these awesome pictures LOL.
She wont let you poke fun? Next thing shes gona want you to be loving. hmm
well i wont show you either. Big warning in the bible on that one. Nice you have
a wife to keep you from being naughty. As you can see im single a free to travel the world.
or was it the travel channel?
A
Abiding
Guest
Off to work but later i wanna post some
on your v24
"to seal up the vision" and prophecy
i guess this is very important part of dan9
that seems to have alluded many.
on your v24
"to seal up the vision" and prophecy
i guess this is very important part of dan9
that seems to have alluded many.
W
wdeaton65
Guest
She is a proverbs 31 wife for sure. She is really loves the LORD and really good on this computer thing and what a cook
LOL I am up to 250lbs perfect if I was 9' 6" to bad I am 6' 1" maybe I will hit a growing spurt LOL.
RE the first link. It's a shame it takes a 50+ page article to muddle the Zech. 14:5 passage. Now I've got a migraine
Tell me about it. Imagine the headaches I got writing it. Too bad it's such a complex issue, but it is what it is. Any questions I'm the one to ask.
you say 'you trust no man' then expect me to trust you? I'm mainly looking for a run down on Zech 14:5 and most translations render it thee same.
RE the first link. It's a shame it takes a 50+ page article to muddle the Zech. 14:5 passage. Now I've got a migraine
the LXX rendering of Zechariah 14:5, which states a valley will be filled in and blocked as far as Azal, just as a valley was filled in and blocked by an earthquake in the days of King Uzziah
The LXX, which is a Greek translation of the ancient Hebrew scrolls made nearly 1000 years before the MT was fully redacted, has one meaning (it shall be closed up), and the MT has the other (you shall flee).
LXX | Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 < click
the Septuagint (LXX) has a completely different reading of Zechariah 14:5 (than what I was used to) that predicts a valley being blocked up just as a valley was blocked up by an earthquake during King Uzziah’s reign.
I became aware of Josephus’ description in one of his books of an earthquake-caused landslide on the Mount of Olives during King Uzziah’s reign blocking up the kings’ gardens in the valley floor below.
I had been praying for a photograph that showed this view, but I never expected to see the remnant of such a massive landslide, nor to find a photo that basically validates the LXX rendering of Zechariah 14:5.
validates Josephus’ account of a landslide burying the king’s gardens.
The Truth Hidden Right in Front of Our Eyes | Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 < click
you are the author of this?
The Truth Hidden Right in Front of Our Eyes | Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 < click
RE the first link. It's a shame it takes a 50+ page article to muddle the Zech. 14:5 passage. Now I've got a migraine
A Quick Overview
What follows is a rather indepth analysis of Zechariah 14:5 utilizing relevant data derived from historical, archaeological, theological, linguistic, geologic, cartographic, and photographic evidence. Thorough inquiry from the standpoint of this reality-based context has uncovered long-hidden truths that completely invalidate the traditional translation and interpretation embraced by evangelical and other Western theologians; has concretely identified the location of Azal (the place mentioned in this verse, which Christendom for many centuries has been unable to locate); and has determined that all but one of the events prophesied in Zechariah 14:4-5 have already occurred.
The Popular Fable
Prima facie, the events of Zechariah 14:1-5 constitute what could be considered one of the epic messianic prophecies.
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east. And the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my GOD shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Zechariah 14:1-5, King James Version
Western Christianity, to a very large degree, believes this prophecy describes the Messiah’s return with all resurrected Christians; at which time he battles the armies of all nations gathered against Jerusalem, and splits the Mount of Olives in half to form a great valley of refuge, or passage, for Jews fleeing Jerusalem from enemy soldiers in the city and in the Kidron Valley to, or through, a place called Azal. Adherents of this interpretation are convinced it is the truth because the bible tells them so. Well, at least they think it does.
An indepth examination, however, reveals that in most Western bibles Zechariah 14:5 is grossly mistranslated. It logically follows, then, that any interpretation based upon this flawed translation is fraudulent as well. It will be discovered in the course of this study that the aforementioned translation/interpretation, hereafter called the popular fable, has no basis in reality whatsoever, and is merely the invention of men’s imaginations. It is the unfortunate outgrowth of the successive effects of manuscript corruption, translator error, and spurious exegesis, which have corrupted Zechariah’s prophecy to the point of being false prophecy.
The Truth Hidden Right in Front of Our Eyes | Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 < click
of course it's almost all fulfilled.
the rest of the Book makes no sense if it isn't.
as i said though, i spent 30 days carefully checking it all.
can't convince anyone...they have to do it themselves.
it's much easier if you're not a dispensationalist to begin with
love ya crossnote.
Maybe you and Wdeaton (since he's also an expert on that passage) can play ping pong with 14:5 and I'll watch from a safe distance.
Yes. Did it really take you 30 days to get through it? The synopsis at Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 | An indepth analysis of Zechariah 14:5 is a much easier read.
Wow I am very impressed with your dedication to understanding the truth. I'm a bit apologetic for making it so long, but one thing just led to another. I tried to cover everything that seemed relevant.
Tell me, how does it read. Good? Bad? Ugly?
The Popular Fable: Weighing the Evidence
Due to its length and probable lack of interest to most readers, the material in this section has been separated to another page. In a nutshell, it concludes that there is no evidence supporting the popular fable. If you can accept that at face value for the time being, read on. If not, click here to read it in this window, or click here to read it in a new window.
The Popular Fable vis-à-vis Apostolic Teaching
This lack of a credible witness supporting the popular fable is problematic because GOD mandates that everything be established by two or three witnesses. Basically, the only witness the popular fable has is itself. But not only is there nothing of substance to support it, apostolic doctrine actually opposes it. The apostle Paul said that the Messiah will gather his people away from the earth in clouds to meet him in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:16), which directly contradicts the teaching that the Messiah’s people will be gathered to him standing upon the Mount of Olives, i.e., on earth. Since these two doctrines contradict each other, both cannot be true. In other words, one is a lie. It is not necessary at this point to refute the contrived doctrine that maintains the church is gathered in clouds first, and then Jews are gathered on earth afterwards at the Messiah’s third coming, because this study uncovers facts, that by themselves completely discredit a crucial component of that teaching.
The Popular Fable vis-à-vis Jewish Tradition
Yet while a terra firma, end-time gathering is contrary to apostolic teaching, it very much does conform with Jewish eschatology as indicated in Targum Song of Songs 8:5:
The Jews, have a notion, that, at the general resurrection of the dead, the Mount of Olives will cleave asunder, and those of their nation, who have been buried in other countries, will be rolled through the caverns of the earth, and come out from under that mountain. This is what they call “gilgul hammetim”, the rolling of the dead; and “gilgul hammechiloth”, the rolling through the caverns. So they say in the Targum of Son_8:5:
“When the dead shall live, the mount of Olives shall be cleaved asunder, and all the dead of Israel shall come out from under it; yea, even the righteous, which die in captivity, shall pass through subterraneous caverns, and come from under the mount of Olives.”
John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible, John Gill, Zechariah 14:4
The Truth Hidden Right in Front of Our Eyes | Deciphering Zechariah 14:5 < click
i'm sorry HeRoseFromTheDead...youll have to give me some evidence you are the author.
you understand.
if you are, nice work.
but how can i know?
W
wdeaton65
Guest
Thats to funny crossnote LOL It still wont change the fact that Yeshua all ready touch the mount of olives He will never touch this doomed planet again Psalms 2 is the end keep following the counterfiet in israel moving faster and faster I cant wait.