Prayer of Renunciation

[1still_waters]

Hi danschance,

I'm not in the forum much anymore. People here tend to deny realities that we have seen with our own eyes, touched with our own hands, heard with our own ears and I hate endless debates on whether my doctrine is better than your doctrine, sheesh.

Boots on the ground servants of Jesus (in foreign countries) are in a totally different world than theoretical theologians in chat-rooms. My friend Dr. Bob W. used to take teams of five doctors into Islamic countries. The Muslims knew those doctors were all Christians, but needed their services so badly that they overlooked them being infidels. Since Dr. Bob was team leader, the imams would follow him around town to make sure he didn't proselyte anyone. That suited Dr. Bob just fine because the other four doctors could then do their medical thing unhampered, and most importantly, lead their patients to Jesus. With all the imams in tow, out of the corner of his eye Dr. Bob would see one or another of the doctors “leading a bunch of young people to faith in Jesus, literally in the shade of their own mosque." The following is a short quote from his book, “Scary”.

"Dr. Edwards asked me to take a bus full of new believers in Jesus down to the Adriatic Sea to baptize them. This was a high privilege. On the way down, we passed a cemetery and one of the new believers had a demonic fit of screaming and shouting. Two of our lady missionaries took her aside and got her delivered from those demons. It was scary, but I was so proud of how they handled this while I just sat there and prayed for them.”

The above is a fairly common occurrence on the foreign field, but hesitate to mention it here because we all “know” Christians can’t be demonized. I personally have worked with dozens of demonized Christian multiples and by the grace of the Lord Jesus have led many to freedom. If you've read “Demons in the Church,” or my later book, "The Shining Man," you've seen examples of Christian multiples who had demons in their system. Oh, Scripture can be interpreted to show that the condition doesn't exist, but when working with a spiritually disturbed Christian, you soon discover that demonization is a reality with which you have to deal. Dr. Anderson in “The Bondage Breaker,” states that up to 85% of all Christians are under some degree of demonic influence and I tend to concur. What’s really sad about all this is that brethren under demonic oppression don’t get the spiritual help they need because in the minds of some, the condition doesn’t exist.

People here tend to deny realities that we have seen with our own eyes, touched with our own hands, heard with our own ears

Things are not valid just because you experienced them.
Mohammed experienced a lot.
Joseph Smith experienced a lot in Jesus name. He even wrote a book about it!

Boots on the ground servants of Jesus (in foreign countries) are in a totally different world than theoretical theologians in chat-rooms.

Bible verses aren't theoretical.
Bible is Bible.
You can't dismiss Bible verse after Bible verse by simply saying...Oh that's theoretical knowledge.

The following is a short quote from his book, “Scary”.

Dr. Anderson in “The Bondage Breaker,” states that up to 85% of all Christians are under some degree

All you do is quote your personal experiences, and other authors.
There IS NO BIBLE to back up what you do.
NOTHING!
NADA!

You're a man who teaches that there is a salvation available without recognizing Jesus.
You're a man who teaches interaction with demons based more on personal experience than on Bible.

These are VERY VERY concerning things.

 

[zone]

People here tend to deny realities that we have seen with our own eyes, touched with our own hands, heard with our own ears

what seen with your own eyes and touched with your own hands ellis?

where is that?

..............

"It was done in private chats on the Internet and many of those chats are cited in this book.

Internet chats can be lengthy and very confusing (questions can be separated from answers by several lines) so every chat had to be edited for clarity. Sentence structures, spelling and punctuation were usually left unchanged unless it interfered with readability. Some chat quotes are actually compilations of several different chats, but all are accurate accounts of real events. Most transcripts are from my files, a couple are from memory and two are from phone calls.

The private chats of the alters we could locate are used with their permission."

http://www.ellisskolfield.com/pdf/Shining-Man.pdf < click

......

how many anonymous people you interacted with on the internet did you actually locate afterwards?

this is all based on people taking your word for everything.

you familiar with or ever met Fritz Springmeier?

 

[danschance]

Hi danschance,

I'm not in the forum much anymore. People here tend to deny realities that we have seen with our own eyes, touched with our own hands, heard with our own ears and I hate endless debates on whether my doctrine is better than your doctrine, sheesh.

Boots on the ground servants of Jesus (in foreign countries) are in a totally different world than theoretical theologians in chat-rooms. My friend Dr. Bob W. used to take teams of five doctors into Islamic countries. The Muslims knew those doctors were all Christians, but needed their services so badly that they overlooked them being infidels. Since Dr. Bob was team leader, the imams would follow him around town to make sure he didn't proselyte anyone. That suited Dr. Bob just fine because the other four doctors could then do their medical thing unhampered, and most importantly, lead their patients to Jesus. With all the imams in tow, out of the corner of his eye Dr. Bob would see one or another of the doctors “leading a bunch of young people to faith in Jesus, literally in the shade of their own mosque." The following is a short quote from his book, “Scary”.

"Dr. Edwards asked me to take a bus full of new believers in Jesus down to the Adriatic Sea to baptize them. This was a high privilege. On the way down, we passed a cemetery and one of the new believers had a demonic fit of screaming and shouting. Two of our lady missionaries took her aside and got her delivered from those demons. It was scary, but I was so proud of how they handled this while I just sat there and prayed for them.”

The above is a fairly common occurrence on the foreign field, but hesitate to mention it here because we all “know” Christians can’t be demonized. I personally have worked with dozens of demonized Christian multiples and by the grace of the Lord Jesus have led many to freedom. If you've read “Demons in the Church,” or my later book, "The Shining Man," you've seen examples of Christian multiples who had demons in their system. Oh, Scripture can be interpreted to show that the condition doesn't exist, but when working with a spiritually disturbed Christian, you soon discover that demonization is a reality with which you have to deal. Dr. Anderson in “The Bondage Breaker,” states that up to 85% of all Christians are under some degree of demonic influence and I tend to concur. What’s really sad about all this is that brethren under demonic oppression don’t get the spiritual help they need because in the minds of some, the condition doesn’t exist.

Brother Therapon,

My heart sinks as I read that you wont be on this forum much. I certainly do understand that the level of contention in this place has been viscous, brutal and withering. Although I admit I am also guilty of the same. It seems that this sort of forum lends itself to saying and doing things we probably would not do in person. Even so, one would assume that Christians ought to behave better towards each other.

I have enjoyed reading your posts and wished/hope we could of had some interesting discussions. I have read your book "The Shining Man" and encouraged others to read it for hope and healing. I am grateful for all your dedicated hard work, long late night chat sessions, demonic confrontations and moments of shear awe and victory in our Lord Jesus, that I know you must of had with "Multies" such as myself.

I am still in the trenches and happy to be there. I am carrying on the fight even as the vast majority of slumbering Christians remain clueless and ignorant of the schemes of our enemy. I hope you will also continue the fight up until your very last breath, God willing.

 

[Therapon]

Brother Therapon,

My heart sinks as I read that you wont be on this forum much. I certainly do understand that the level of contention in this place has been viscous, brutal and withering. Although I admit I am also guilty of the same. It seems that this sort of forum lends itself to saying and doing things we probably would not do in person. Even so, one would assume that Christians ought to behave better towards each other.

I have enjoyed reading your posts and wished/hope we could of had some interesting discussions. I have read your book "The Shining Man" and encouraged others to read it for hope and healing. I am grateful for all your dedicated hard work, long late night chat sessions, demonic confrontations and moments of shear awe and victory in our Lord Jesus, that I know you must of had with "Multies" such as myself.

I am still in the trenches and happy to be there. I am carrying on the fight even as the vast majority of slumbering Christians remain clueless and ignorant of the schemes of our enemy. I hope you will also continue the fight up until your very last breath, God willing.

Well brother, I hate being in a never-ending spitting match with people who haven't been there, so I'll not be online much. The constant conflicts are disturbing to the Spirit within me.

Part of my ministry for the last 35 years has been to help demonically oppressed Christians to freedom in Christ Jesus, to Him goes all the glory. Do you think I should go back to those people who are now happily walking in the Lord and tell them that I really didn't help them because the demonization they were suffering under didn't really exist? <wry smile> I am not going to debate it, 2Ti 2:14 "charging them in the sight of the Lord, that they strive not about words, to no profit, to the subverting of them that hear."

Nevertheless, I cannot deny what I know to be true just to be accepted, if I did I would become a servant of man rather than a servant of God.

 

[danschance]

Well brother, I hate being in a never-ending spitting match with people who haven't been there, so I'll not be online much. The constant conflicts are disturbing to the Spirit within me.

Part of my ministry for the last 35 years has been to help demonically oppressed Christians to freedom in Christ Jesus, to Him goes all the glory. Do you think I should go back to those people who are now happily walking in the Lord and tell them that I really didn't help them because the demonization they were suffering under didn't really exist? <wry smile> I am not going to debate it, 2Ti 2:14 "charging them in the sight of the Lord, that they strive not about words, to no profit, to the subverting of them that hear."

Nevertheless, I cannot deny what I know to be true just to be accepted, if I did I would become a servant of man rather than a servant of God.

Amen Brother Therapon, well said.

How many times have you seen the biggest critics of deliverance are the ones most in need of it? <implied face-palm>

 

[Therapon]

Things are not valid just because you experienced them.
Mohammed experienced a lot.
Joseph Smith experienced a lot in Jesus name. He even wrote a book about it!

Bible verses aren't theoretical.
Bible is Bible.
You can't dismiss Bible verse after Bible verse by simply saying...Oh that's theoretical knowledge.

All you do is quote your personal experiences, and other authors.
There IS NO BIBLE to back up what you do.
NOTHING!
NADA!

You're a man who teaches that there is a salvation available without recognizing Jesus.
You're a man who teaches interaction with demons based more on personal experience than on Bible.

These are VERY VERY concerning things.

Brother, I have been a dedicated full time servant of the Lord for more years than most on this forum have been alive. I have studied Scripture in 70 of my 85 years and I'm probably as conservative a believer as you will ever meet, but in no way do I want you to play nice because of my eldership.

Over the years, I have led many to the Lord and helped many demonized Christians to freedom in Jesus. I have seen brethren, bound by the enemy for decades, now full of the joy of the Lord, their families restored, free and walking in Him . . . and it wasn't done through false doctrine! Those are facts, not puffed-up self aggrandizement and to Jesus goes all the glory, for without Him I can do nothing.

I have maintained my cool on this forum, despite the fact that I have been called a liar, a false prophet, been misrepresented, misquoted, berated and made a fool of by bombastic spiritual infants who consider themselves God's gift to conservative theology, but aren’t. You have said never a word about all that totally ungodly behavior, but have been quick to criticize for what you perceive to be my false doctrine.

Well, you are wrong. What I write is not biblical one-up-man-ship, or into what on this forum is an ever-popular Karaokeperformance of, “my doctrine’s better than your doctrine, my doctrine’s better than yours . . .” How infantile! The Lord really did open His Word anew when the New nation of Israel was established in 1948, and that event changed many of our doctrines, but bound by tradition and lethargy, you guys can’t hear it.

Nothing could concern me more than displeasing the Lord by leading His precious sheep astray through error. I write what I do because I know it to be true before the Lord, in Scripture and historically. It has the affirmation of the Bible, the Holy Spirit and a host of brethren around the world. That it doesn’t agree with your doctrine, doesn’t make it wrong. Dual covenant theology may not be your doctrine, but more and more true Bible-believing churches hold it, so it is no longer a small splinter-group view.

I pray about every word I write, including this very post. I’m truly sorry you are “very concerned.” I’m just as concerned, not about your doctrine, you’re entitled to it, but concerned about your inability to open your heart to the possibility that the other fellow just might be right. <sigh>

 

[ladylynn]

Dear Therapon, I don't know you personally but have read your posts and they have encouraged me very much. There are not a lot of Christians like you Therapon., but So MANY of the others who fight mercilessly against anyone different than them.. Please reconsider your choice of leaving here. God bless you and your ministry.

 

[Professor]

I don't quite understand this. How can someone who has the Holy Spirit also have a demon? I get that demons can still seriously "mess with" Christians, but how can the Holy Spirit and a demon co-exist? I am puzzled.

Dr Paul G. Cully, medical missionary to the Philippines, Dean of the Colledge of Missions at Columbia Bible College and my mentor, had a whole trunkful of documentary evidence of born again Christians who were clearly still demonized. The job then was to lead them to freedom.

 

[1still_waters]

I don't quite understand this. How can someone who has the Holy Spirit also have a demon? I get that demons can still seriously "mess with" Christians, but how can the Holy Spirit and a demon co-exist? I am puzzled.

They can't.
It doesn't pass Biblical muster.
It's based ONLY on personal experience.

 

[danschance]

I don't quite understand this. How can someone who has the Holy Spirit also have a demon? I get that demons can still seriously "mess with" Christians, but how can the Holy Spirit and a demon co-exist? I am puzzled.

I can answer your question but first consider this:

Can the Holy Spirit co-exist with sin?

1st still waters will tell you this is impossible and yet the Holy Spirit dwells inside us Christians even if we sin. Now to answer your question. Where do demons dwell and where does the Holy Spirit dwell? Same place? No!

Man is much more than a spirit container. The Holy Spirit dwells with our own spirits while demons occupy the flesh and the mind only. Man is a triune being comprised of Body, mind and spirit. (1Thess. 5:23)

Christians who have a demonic issue also have a sin issue. The way to liberate them from the demonic is to breakdown the strongholds in our minds and confess our sins. Then simply command the demons to leave in Jesus name.

 

[Therapon]

I don't quite understand this. How can someone who has the Holy Spirit also have a demon? I get that demons can still seriously "mess with" Christians, but how can the Holy Spirit and a demon co-exist? I am puzzled.

Well, one way is through an ancestral assignment. Scripture says, "the sins of the fathers will be visited on the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." So if anyone of a person's great-grandparents or later forbearer was a Satanist or into the occult, he could pass the evil spirit he gave access to on down through four generations.

The second way and the most common today is if someone (before he is saved) plays with Wicca, an Ouija board, is into some other form of witchcraft or Satanism, he gives access to the enemy and can have a demon in residence. If he confesses and renounces all those activities when he comes to the Lord (as he should be instructed to do), then that evil spirit leaves. If he fails to do so, that evil spirit remains until he is driven out, though sometimes the evil spirit leaves when the person is baptized. Satan and his angels are the greatest legalist that ever existed and they will take advantage of God's law if given the chance. The evil spirit has the legal right to stay because he had been previously granted access.

Demons can also be transferred through sexual contact. For instance, if a Christian has sex with a demonized person, particularly outside of wedlock, he or she has given access to the enemy and could get an evil spirit in residence as a
result.

That is a quick synopsis of the subject. For a more detailed treatment, suggest you read, "The Bondage Breaker" or its sequel, "Released From Bondage," both by Dr. Neil T. Anderson, conservative theologian, Talbot college, Biola University.

 

[1still_waters]

I can answer your question but first consider this:

Can the Holy Spirit co-exist with sin?

1st still waters will tell you this is impossible and yet the Holy Spirit dwells inside us Christians even if we sin. Now to answer your question. Where do demons dwell and where does the Holy Spirit dwell? Same place? No!

Man is much more than a spirit container. The Holy Spirit dwells with our own spirits while demons occupy the flesh and the mind only. Man is a triune being comprised of Body, mind and spirit. (1Thess. 5:23)

Christians who have a demonic issue also have a sin issue. The way to liberate them from the demonic is to breakdown the strongholds in our minds and confess our sins. Then simply command the demons to leave in Jesus name.

The Holy Spirit dwells with our own spirits while demons occupy the flesh and the mind only

2 Tim 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

Philippians 4: [SUP]7 [/SUP]And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

 

[Therapon]

Christians who have a demonic issue also have a sin issue. The way to liberate them from the demonic is to breakdown the strongholds in our minds and confess our sins. Then simply command the demons to leave in Jesus name.

Unconfessed sin ia the issue. Confess and renounce the sin, commad the evil spirit to leave in Jesus name and never return and it is gone. But like Jesus said, "go thy way and sin no more lest a worse thing before you "

 

[1still_waters]

Well, one way is through an ancestral assignment. Scripture says, "the sins of the fathers will be visited on the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." So if anyone of a person's great-grandparents or later forbearer was a Satanist or into the occult, he could pass the evil spirit he gave access to on down through four generations.

The second way and the most common today is if someone (before he is saved) plays with Wicca, an Ouija board, is into some other form of witchcraft or Satanism, he gives access to the enemy and can have a demon in residence. If he confesses and renounces all those activities when he comes to the Lord (as he should be instructed to do), then that evil spirit leaves. If he fails to do so, that evil spirit remains until he is driven out, though sometimes the evil spirit leaves when the person is baptized. Satan and his angels are the greatest legalist that ever existed and they will take advantage of God's law if given the chance. The evil spirit has the legal right to stay because he had been previously granted access.

Demons can also be transferred through sexual contact. For instance, if a Christian has sex with a demonized person, particularly outside of wedlock, he or she has given access to the enemy and could get an evil spirit in residence as a
result.

That is a quick synopsis of the subject. For a more detailed treatment, suggest you read, "The Bondage Breaker" or its sequel, "Released From Bondage," both by Dr. Neil T. Anderson, conservative theologian, Talbot college, Biola University.

Well, one way is through an ancestral assignment. Scripture says, "the sins of the fathers will be visited on the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." So if anyone of a person's great-grandparents or later forbearer was a Satanist or into the occult, he could pass the evil spirit he gave access to on down through four generations.

Of the believer, the Bible says...

Colossians 1
[SUP]13 [/SUP]He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

Any potential curses from parents are removed once you're saved.
You've been DELIVERED from the power of darkness.

I know quaint personal experiences from some, and references to Neil T. Anderson may contradict what the Bible actually says, but I'd suggest going with Bible.

 

[Therapon]

Colossians 1:13[SUP] "[/SUP]He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love.

Just as I have spelled out above, yes, God the father has indeed delivered us from the power of darkness (but not its influence) by giving us a scriptural mechanism whereby we can be free of its control in our lives. 1. Confess the sin, 2. Renounce the sin, 3. Command the evil spirit to leave in Jesus name and as the Lord says, "go thy way and sin no more lest a worse thing befall you."

If we failed to do the above and remain in spiritual turmoil, we can only blame ourselves. Oh yes and Anderson doesn't in anyway disagree with the Bible, in fact he quotes it more than anyone I know with the possible exception of myself.

 

[1still_waters]

Just as I have spelled out above, yes, God the father has indeed delivered us from the power of darkness (but not its influence) by giving us a scriptural mechanism whereby we can be free of its control in our lives. 1. Confess the sin, 2. Renounce the sin, 3. Command the evil spirit to leave in Jesus name and as the Lord says, "go thy way and sin no more lest a worse thing befall you."

If we failed to do the above and remain in spiritual turmoil, we can only blame ourselves. Oh yes and Anderson doesn't in anyway disagree with the Bible, in fact he quotes it more than anyone I know with the possible exception of myself.

Just as I have spelled out above, yes, God the father has indeed delivered us from the power of darkness (but not its influence)

Nice try.
But we have to address how you define "INFLUENCE".

You go WAY beyond simple influence.
You assert a believer can be more than oppressed.
You assert a believer can be BOUND.

So unless we wish to claim the poor woman was lost, there is a biblical case of a saved person who was “bound,” which is way more than just being oppressed by the devil.

Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629

 

[Therapon]

Nice try.
But we have to address how you define "INFLUENCE".

You go WAY beyond simple influence.
You assert a believer can be more than oppressed.
You assert a believer can be BOUND.


Link-->http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61157-prayer-renunciation-4.html#post976629

Brother, I have shown how a person can be demonized in two or three earlier posts. It is a reality I have had to deal with many times. You claim it is only anecdotal evidence and therefore not valid, but everything isn't in the Bible and Scripture says, "out of the mouths of two or three witnesses shall anything be established."

I have shown you three witnesses right here on this thread, Dr. Bob W., Dr. Neil T. Anderson, and myself. Anderson and I have worked with demonized Christians many times. I can do little if you choose not to believe us. We claim no papal infallibility, but we are servants of the Lord and not into the lying business so neither will I debate it. Unfortunately, truth sometimes suffers when it disagrees with what people want to believe.

 

[1still_waters]

Brother, I have shown how a person can be demonized in two or three earlier posts. It is a reality I have had to deal with many times. You claim it is only anecdotal evidence and therefore not valid, but everything isn't in the Bible and Scripture says, "out of the mouths of two or three witnesses shall anything be established."

I have shown you three witnesses right here on this thread, Dr. Bob W., Dr. Neil T. Anderson, and myself. Anderson and I have worked with demonized Christians many times. I can do little if you choose not to believe us. We claim no papal infallibility, but we are servants of the Lord and not into the lying business so neither will I debate it. Unfortunately, truth sometimes suffers when it disagrees with what people want to believe.

So as long as three people claim to witness some type of spiritual event that isn't in the Bible, the event is of God and Biblical?

Joseph Smith had witnesses.
Muhammed had witnesses.

Your spiritual practice rests on the traditions of men.
Not God's word.

 

[Therapon]

So as long as three people claim to witness some type of spiritual event that isn't in the Bible, the event is of God and Biblical?

Joseph Smith had witnesses.
Muhammed had witnesses.

Your spiritual practice rests on the traditions of men.
Not God's word.

LOL, brother, we're not Mohammed or Joseph Smith; what a truly unjust comparison. We are dedicated Christian brethren who love the Lord Jesus. Our lives are spent leading people to Jesus or helping Christians to walk a more victorious Christian life. Those are the witnesses you are denying.

Brother, I don't want to debate you. We are supposed to be on the same side.

 

[1still_waters]

LOL, brother, we're not Mohammed or Joseph Smith; what a truly unjust comparison. We are dedicated Christian brethren who love the Lord Jesus. Our lives are spent leading people to Jesus or helping Christians to walk a more victorious Christian life. Those are the witnesses you are denying.

Brother, I don't want to debate you. We are supposed to be on the same side.

Joseph Smith taught in the name of Jesus too.
Actually his followers want to be accepted as brothers because...
1. They confess Christ
2. Go on extra biblical personal experience to justify spiritual practices.